Conference thebay::joyoflex

    
    Mr. Kalikow.....
    
    Care to explain the difference between deaf and profoundly deaf? 
     
    An interested reader.
    jc 
    
    [ :-)  <- In case you may be wondering. ]
    

    Deafness is a general term that refers to partial or total loss of
    hearing.  There are many causes for deafness.  Profound deafness most
    often refers to types of deafness that involve nerve damage or failure. 
    With these types of deafness, hearing aids are ineffective.  
    
    					andrew

    G'day,
    
    >often refers to types of deafness that involve nerve damage or failure. 
    >With these types of deafness, hearing aids are ineffective.  
    
    FWIW
    The Australian created "Bionic ear" implant by Cochlear (sp) works for
    the profoundly deaf. One of life's miracles...
    
    
    
    derek

    No, that was Edwardlear.  :-)
    
    No but seriously, folks, though I have no knowledge of the particular
    use of "Cochlear" it *did* sound like it was a company-name.  Not a bad
    ploy for a high-tech company to take, to co-opt the name of the sensory
    organ being targeted, especially since it has the "ear" grapheme
    inside.
    
    Kinda like, in another dimension, the lemon-juice substitute sold in
    the USA called "ReaLemon."  It's even packaged in a lemon-shaped
    bottle, and everytime I have to ask for it or buy it, I want to
    throttle the marketeer who foisted that bit of mind-*%%#@@ing garbage
    on the English-speaking public.
    

    Speaking of the English language, someone has trademarked "English" as
    the name of a computer language.
    

    Aiieee!!!!!!
    
    :-)
    

That's an old language... at least, there was an "English" 
around in the early 70s.  It think it was essentially a database
query language, and it belonged to some probably-now-defunct
company.  

Is that the one you're thinking of?   On the other hand, you did say
it was trademarked.  I didn't think computer people worried about nonsense
like that, then.

    Probably the same.  It was early in my computer career, which started
    in '78.  I do remember laughing at the gall of someone trademarking
    "English" as the name of a language.
    
    The ad was in Computerworld.  That should tell you something.
    

    
    But what does this mean for Datatrieve?  This product always claimed
    its commands were "English-like."
    
    JP

    G'day,
    
     'English' is the enquiry language used by Pick based machines. The
    Pick operating System, named after the inventor, ? Pick, uses English
    and Databasic. It frankly) leaves good ol' DTR for dead - both in ease
    of use and speed. The operating system is build around the database
    operations. In fact that is what it is _really_ good at.
    
    
    Pick is alive and well in Oz, and has a following in the US. It has
    been ported to run over U*X machines as 'Universe' I think. 
    
    
    Top database (relational), top language for the job it does. Very
    productive. I once generated 43 report writers (including a program to
    match half carcases of beef in an abbattoir database) in around 3 days.
    
    
    But that was in another life...
    
    regards
    Derek

    >    Pick operating System, named after the inventor, ? Pick, uses English
    
    His name is Dick Pick.
    
    Larry
    

Must be different.  I don't think PICK was invented when I
first heard of English as a computer language (back in the
dark ages Before Microprocessors, probably).   The company
was someone like NCR, I think.

rathole...

re ASL - I have wondered why the 'A' in ASL?
Specifically, does sign language have a nationality?
Is the sign for say, horse, that American signers use
the same sign that French signers use?

I know there are words that don't translate well or at
all, so each "nation" (for want of a better word) of
signers would have signs that are particular to their
equivalent spoken language.  Wouldn't an international
sign language function like the translating Babel fish
in the Hitchhiker trilogy?

(Would accents become visual?)

--angela

    I know that signs do vary from lang-- country to country.  Pity.
    
    							Ann B.

I took the ASL course last year here at DEC.  sign language is indeed
different from country to country, and there are several dialects here in
the US.  This seems to be inevitable in a non-written language.  We had 
a video tape to use with the course.  The signers used on the tape were
from California, which caused some puzzlement in watching it and figuring
out what they were saying!  
American Sign Language is very different from that used in England, but is
very similar to that used in France, because the person responsible for
making ASL real learned about sign languages in France, and brought that one
here.  
What is confusing for hearing signers is that ASL is really a separate
language from English.  The grammar and syntax are very different.  Also, when
you are stuck for a sign, you will often spell the English word, which leads
hearing signers to think that a word for word translation is possible.
Signers make heavy use of abbreviations and nicknames for people and places
(The sign for Boston is the sign for city drawn with the hand forming the
letter B), which must be very confusing for non-locals!

>sign language is indeed
>different from country to country, and there are several dialects here in
>the US.  This seems to be inevitable in a non-written language.
    
    #ifdef RATHOLE
    
    It's inevitable in written languages too.
    
    #endif RATHOLE
    
    P.S.  It's inevitable in written languages even outside of Digital
    and even outside of the computer world :-)

    I heard last week that ASL has taken a step to become more PC.
    The official signs for Japan[ese] and homosexual were changed.
    
    ed

    re: -1
    
    .. which begs the question, what were the "un-PC" signs
    for homosexual and Japanese?
    
    --angela

    Well, since you ask, and again this is only what I heard reported:
    The unPC sign for Japan was to point a finger (pinky?) at the corner
    of an eye and (I think) to make a slant-eyed gesture.  The unPC term
    for homosexual was to make a limpwristed gesture.
    
    The new and inproved PC forms are, for Japan, to make a "shape in
    the form of the Japanese Island nation" and or the latter to make
    a capital Q, which I don't see as much of an improvement but
    perhaps I'm imagining things.
    
    ed

There is a sign for "gay" which is a G on the chin, and a sign for lesbian
which is an L on the chin.

There was a sign for homosexual commonly used 10 years ago or so which 
actually meant "queer".  I've heard that it has been going out of use and
more people are using the sign for gay instead.

       Carol

    gestino is a recognised language now which is an international sign
    language.
    
    actually, i believe it is the hearing community that may be responsible
    for many pc signs..., just a guess.
    
    and are we speaking deaf or Deaf?
    
       

Random thought #1

	One of the reasons that ASL is *A*SL is that many signs belong to 
a class of signs with the first letter being used to differentiate between
simliar signs.

	Example: there is a general class of collective nouns (i.e. variations
on the word group) that are all made be holding both hands together in front of
you palm out, then moving each of them in a semicircle until they are together
again, palms toward the signer.  (In other words, making a circle with two
hands).  Make this sign with your hand in the shape of a letter "d" and the word
is "department" -- "a" and it becomes "association" and so on...

	The signs for rat and mouse differ in that "mouse" is made by brushing
two fingers against the tip of your nose.  "Rat" is same sign with the fingers
in an "r" shape. 

	Obviously, the spoken words and therefore the initial letters differ
from country to country.


Random thought #2

	I can verify that the sign for Japanese is (was?) made by holding a
pinky finger against the corner of your eye.



Random thought #3

	Whoever said a while ago that ASL is a separate language that hearing
signers have problems understanding the syntax of is correct.  What most hearing
signers sign is a combination of SEE and ASL.  (SEE is Signing Exact English.  
In SEE, you sign every "The", "that", "a", "at", "to" and so on...)

	To see how ASL and SEE differ, consider the sentence "Look at that":

SEE:  

The sign for "look" (your fingers in a V (representing the two eyes) then 
dropped forward a little)  followed by the signs for "at" and "that".


ASL

The sign for "look" pointed at whatever you want your audience to look at.
Urgency  and excitement can be conveyed by repeating the sign, making it bigger,
faster, or sharper.


Tracey 
(who had to go be a counselor for the deaf cabin to learn all the really neat
swear signs from the kids :-) )


 
	

    .23> "Tracey (who had to go be a counselor for the deaf cabin to learn
    all the really neat swear signs from the kids :-) )"
    
    Your extreme devotion to the science of gestural philology is duly
    noted, with appreciation... :-)
    

    More re 23
    
    >Whoever said a while ago that ASL is a separate language that hearing
    >signers have problems understanding the syntax of is correct.
    
    And whoever says that written English is a language that readers can
    have problems understanding the syntax of even when correct is correct.

    signs have now become more politically correct, the sign for
    japanese,chinese, korean... are no longer made by initializing.
    
    also it is not a combination asl and see that most hearing people are
    "accused" of using but rather a sign mode called pigeon sign.  its
    basically a blend of english word order with asl signs.  see is called
    mode of communication, set up to teach deaf folks how to learn english.
    found not to be very effective, probably cause its not a language...
    
    just a few tidbits i've learned while trying to perfect my sign skills.
    
    genie

I think we're nitpicking now (though I guess that's partly what this
conference is for).  Pigeon/Pidgin Sign *is* a combination of Signed English
and ASL.  Although I am not very familiar with the term SEE, I would assume
from the description that it is the same as Signed English.

   Carol, who learned ASL in San Diego, and who uses pidgin sign.

    nope, not the same.  there's see seeI, seeII, LOVE, and others which
    are all systems.  
    
    genie