Conference taveng::bagels

Although I can't respond to your specific request regarding Yury, I do have 
a general question i.e. I would very much like to get involved in this type 
of work.  The notion of helping immigrants integrate into American life is 
a very positive one (in contrast to many immigrants who today feel that 
remaining separate is the desired state).

Any tips as to how I might get involved?

Carl

>================================================================================
>Note 783.0           Job For Newly Arrived Russian Immigrant          No replies
>JAIMES::FOX                                          24 lines  27-SEP-1989 11:25
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    I am helping a recently arrived Russian immigrant family to integrate
>    into American life. These folks left Lithuania in May primarly because
>    of religious persecution. The father was a Refusenik for over 10
>    years.
>    

    During Yom Kippur our Rabbi gave a urgent appeal for volunteers
    for just this sort of thing.  You might contact Beth Israel Synagogue
    in Worcester.  I can dig up the number if you need it.  They even
    passed out pledge cards with numerous volunteer jobs that you could
    pledge to help out with.   I'm trying to decide myself how much
    time I can commit and what I can assist with.  This seems to be
    very well organized.
    
    Hope this helps,
    Mike

    I don't know where you live, but in the Boston area, the principal
    Jewish social services agency (Jewish Family and Children's Service
    in Brookline MA) is handling Russian resettlement. The Associate
    Director is Joanne Spector. I'd guess similar agencies are handling
    this in other locations, but of course, in many places there aren't
    the concentrations of immigrants we have here. 
    
    I applaud your effort to become involved. Boston certainly requires
    the efforts of many more people and much $ to deal with this real
    challenge.
    
    Finally--an editorial note--!! I received no replies to my request
    for help for Yury. Perhaps I wasn't clear, but I don't expect folks
    to come forward with job offers...certainly not in this current
    business climate! Any exposure to the job market would help
    Yury...informational interviews, tours around a site to see how
    an American corporation "works", general scmoozing about work and
    the job market...all these would help. Since he has an interest
    in photography and media, this is where I thought it made sense
    to focus.
    
    Perhaps this additional info will encourage some generous souls.
    I thank you in advance !!

re .0
>    I am helping a recently arrived Russian immigrant family to integrate
>    into American life. These folks left Lithuania in May primarly because
>    of religious persecution.
    
    As long as Chris started complaining about "Austrian-German Jews"
    elsewhere ;-), I'll say this: isn't it about time that people 
    (especially) in this conference learned to be more precise?!
    
    Is he Russian? Is he Lithuanian? Is he Jewish? Is he Christian?
    
    By all means, help him in any case, but don't insult your intelligence.
    
    Alex

    How could being "more precise" about this gentleman's ethnicity
    or religion add anything to this situation!!
    
    The person is Lithuanian (as I indicated in the base note) and Jewish.
    (I'm not aware of too many Christians fleeing the Soviet Union because
    of religious persecution..but I may be uninformed about this.)
    
    As I indicated the second time I wrote--the key issue here is
    action--actually doing something for these folks who have so many
    needs!  
    
    A discussion such as this seems EXTREMELY beside the point, in my
    book!

    re .5 
    
    As I said in .4, do help the guy regardless of who he is. 
    But do yourself a favor - inform yourself better on the random set 
    of terms you used in .0 and .5 again.
    
    You just may avoid insulting your friend and loosing some of his
    respect.
    
    Alex

    I don't want to beat this into the ground..so this will be my
    last comment on this, but I'm using the same terms to describe this
    person in notes that HE uses to describe himself.
    
    I'm not sure where you're coming from on this...and what your issues
    are, nut I'm sure we both have far better things to do than haggle
    it out here!

re: .5
    
    >(I'm not sure of too many Christians feeling the Soviet Union because
    >of religious persecution...but I may be uninformed about this.)
    
    I don't have any figures, but there seem to be considerable numbers
    of Christians who are doing so. I recently met such a family of
    6, which included a grandmother, three little ones, and a sister
    of the husband, all sponsored by a Christian family in Nashua NH.
    There is another family in Amherst, NH that I know of.
    
    Since I am Latvian-born, I feel a particular kinship in this instance
    with the Lithuanian family you are assisting. Since I came to this country
    as the child of a refugee family, with nothing but the clothes on
    our backs, I can further empathize. 
    
    When you first entered the base note, my initial reaction was one
    of wanting to offer help. I quickly realized, of course, that
    there is more than sufficient help available through many fine 
    Jewish organizations, and families such as yourself, and that what
    little I could do, if anything, was really not required in this 
    instance. However, I did want you to know that I was moved to want 
    to help.   
    
    I'm very glad he has someone like you to care and assist. May G-d 
    bless you in this wonderful task you have undertaken to be warmth 
    and practical support during their transition to a new life.     
    They have tremendous difficulties to overcome and adjustments to
    make, and will need all the loving support they can get. 
     
    As an outsider, I am confused by the issue of terminology raised
    regarding the description of this family. I find nothing offensive
    or inaccurate in the terms used. It might be redundant to say
    "Russian-Lithuanian", but cerainly harmless; I see nothing wrong
    with the term, "Lithuanian Jew". 
                                          
    Irena   
    

    OK, I'll be more explicit. Please forgive me for taking a tangent to .0,
    but I am compelled to persevere. (To Mods: please feel free to re-post)

    So here's the clarification: 

    First of all, many of us insist on calling Soviet emigrants "Russians".
    Most of them are not "Russian", none of them are "Russian citizens"
    (unlike US citizens being "Americans" regardless of ethnic lineage).
    Soviet emigrants have long ago gave up on the idea of ever correcting
    this American ignorance and arrogance of calling everybody "Russians" 
    (which is probably the case with the beneficiary of .0 as we saw).

    Secondly, even if there was such a country "Russia", Lithuania is NOT
    a part of it (nor is Latvia, Irena). Lithuanians deeply resent being
    russified, and I doubt they appreciate being called "Russians" (as
    do Latvians).

    Now, FOX in .0 called Yuri a "Russian" from Lithuania who suffered religious
    persecution. The most reasonable interpretation of that statement is that 
    indeed the person was a Russian resident of Lithuania, and therefore,
    he is probably a Christian who suffered religious persecution (yes, FOX).

    One could abduct that since the posting is in Bagels, the person could
    be Jewish. OK, but then he can only be Russian if he converted to
    Judaism, since he was never identified as a "Russian Jew", which still
    is incorrect since the person is from Lithuania.

    Not until .5 does FOX identify the person as "Lithuanian" and "Jewish".
    Then he is not a Russian after all, right? Or is he?

    Now, I am not surprised that my stubborness surprised FOX, but I
    expected that somebody like Irena would exhibit more awareness.
    One could say: "What's the big deal? So few terms got slightly misused."
    The bid deal is that most of the Bagelers could be expected to be more
    sensitive to "slight misuses" of terminology, especially when talking
    about religion and ethnicity. As we witnessed on other occasions in
    this conference, this is not the case.

    So next time one has an urge to call a "Russian" friend "Russian",
    just remember that he may have spent all his life being discriminated 
    against because he was not a Russian.

    If nobody here thinks this was a worthwhile discussion, no problem.
    I'll simply attribute this to our newfound American trait of ignorance
    of geography! ;-)

    Alex
                                               

    
    Alex, you caught me being sloppy. ;^) 
    
    You're absolutely correct, if you draw the lines of distinction 
    between "Russia" and the "Soviet Union". So, yes. I'll grant 
    you that he shouldn't be called a Russian anything, unless he is
    a Russian living in Lithuania. In which case he wouldn't
    be a Russian Lithunian, but a Lithuanian Russian. ;)  
    
    However, I'm acutely aware of the Russification that has
    taken place in the Baltic countries, though perhaps more in 
    Latvia than Lithuania, because its port is of such strategic 
    military importance. The Russians that are living in Latvia 
    ["imported" from various parts of Russia], outnumber the natives 
    by a large margin. In my frame of reference, the country is, for 
    all practical purposes, Russified.                            
    
    While not all people coming out of Latvia [if they were to ever
    come out] would be Russian, certainly the likelihood of it would 
    be great, based on the population. I transferred this mind-set to 
    the Lithuanian situation under discussion.
    
    Thanks for your very sharp eye and clarity of thought, Alex.
    
    Irena                     

    re. Alex, Irena:
    
    "Americans" don't understand how important the differentiation of
    the nation of origin is to "Europeans".
    
    As a definitely non German Austrian, I encounter this issue very often
    myself, and, like you, try to clarify the mistake on the spot.
    
    Supportingly yours,
    
    Chris 

    	Just to confuse you some more, Irena :-), Latvians still outnumber
    Russians in Latvia, though Riga (the capital city containing about 50%
    of the population) is about half and half, and heavily Russified.
    However, even in Riga, as in the rest of Latvia, the pressure on the
    "outsiders" to leave is very heavy now - up to and including beatings.
    Russification has been largely reversed with Latvian now the official
    language, and the national awareness of Latvians is now probably as
    high as that of Finns..
    
    DG

    
    re: -1
    
    I'm aware of the rise of nationalism in Latvia, especially evident
    recently. However, it is the last of the three countries to follow
    in the footsteps of Lithuania and Estonia, possibly because it
    has been under greater control. I'm tempted to say more...and
    ask you a couple of questions, but we're way off the topic already.
    You know, I'm really impressed with the knowledge you possess, and 
    the interest that indicates. ;)
    
    Thanks. I enjoyed this.
    
    Irena
    

    
    
    Hi, I "enjoed" reading this particular topic.
    Was not the initiator's of the topic intention was to get help for
    "russians", whoever they rely are.
    I understand of course it is not a great time now to get job, but
    how about, for starter, to help the "russians" with their resume.
    Jewish organization in Brrokline, I know, tried to help them in
    this task, but most of resume I read are 'technically illiteral'.
    
    Sam.