Conference taveng::bagels

I used to date for about 4 years a gentile girl who I was very close with and
she would spend Passover with my family.  We don't read Hebrew very well, so
except for the top ten parts of the Sedar (Ten questions, Kiddish, etc), most of
it was in English.

My Mom, every year always managed to use the free-bee HAGODAs from Stop-and-Shop,
always littered with, too many THEEs, THOUs, and tongue-twisters.

This worked for me, and is probably a bit tacky.  Obtain a HAGODA that's easy
to read, a TV, VCR, 4 hours, and "THE TEM COMMANDMANTS".  Enjoy the film, but 
use the HAGODA as a program.

I hope your friend knows about the slavery part and the partting of the Red Sea,
but what is the significants of the 10 Plagues, the 4 Questions, the Sedar meal,
and of course, what the word "PASSOVER" means.  How the lambs' blood was painted 
on the door posts and served as a signal to God's Angel of Death to "Passover" 
this house.

This film has been on TV many times and I'm sure many people, both Jewish and 
Gentile alike have seen it, but how many people cought those few seconds where
(I think) Joshoa was portraied as painting the lambs' blood and explaining
the reason?

What have you got to loose.  Certainly not a good evening with your friend.

Alan

    Thanks Alan, 
      When the Ten Commandments was on TV I rushed to the
    phone to tell him to watch (he was already watching and said that
    he knows the story.)        
      Reading through a simplified Hagoda will help him feel more at
    ease with the situation.  I didn't know that they had them at 
    Stop and Shop!
    
    Sue
    

Stop/Shop at least used to have Free-Bees in Springfield where I originally 
come from.  (That's a portion of Massachusetts West of 128, Mr. Govenor).

You may want to check with a local Hebrew School to see what they give 
the younger students.

    One thing noone has addressed is the issue that upsets your father,
    and which you have undoubtedly considered - your "possible union".
    You mentioned that your family is not particularly religious, and
    your knowledge of your own religion might therefore be somewhat
    limited. The issue of intermarriage is THE most critical one today
    for our people. The number of intermarriages are astronomical, and
    growing every year. In a very few generations Judaism in this country
    will likely be limited to a few small ghettos in the larger cities,
    but mainstream Jewry appears to be going the way of Chinese Jewry
    (which by the way flourished for over 700 years). Assimilation is
    rampant, and it is tearing our nation asunder.
    	You cannot be held responsible for your decision to date this
    man, given the lack of religion in your background. Responsiblity
    lies with the Jewish community, for de-emphasizing Jewish education
    in favor of cultural and political issues. I think that the fact
    that you submitted the note is a very positive thing, in that it
    might open doors to YOU learning more about your heritage. We have
    a beautiful, rich, profound tradition which has existed for  
    thousands of years, and which we all have the obligation -nay
    priviledge- of learning about even if we were deprived of that
    opportunity in our youth.
    	Obviously, this is of the utmost importance to me, and I hope
    we can continue the dialogue. I might sound old-fashioned, but it's
    only because I've been through similar experiences and I have deep
    feelings about it. To paraphrase a great visionary, "All I am saying...
     is give Judaism a chance".
    
    				B'Ahavat Yisrael (with love for all
    							Jews),
    					Jeremy

    RE: .4, your reply make work for you, but not everyone who was born
    Jewish will agree. When there is little religious feeling, no one
    has any right to try to tell them to give up a good relationship
    because the other person is non-Jewish. In a homogeneous society,
    your life style is easier to achieve (though NYC is not homogeneous
    overall, there is a large enough Jewish possible to make certain
    areas appear that way). In most of the country though that is not
    the case and people will do in their lives what is best for them.
    If mainline Judaism is losing too much to "intermarriage and
    assimilation", then the reasons have to be examined. I think that
    this change is inevitable in America today and its not limited
    to the Jewish faith. The amount of intermarriages among Christian
    denominations is also growing. Religion has to attract its members
    by making them WANT TO BE ACTIVE, not telling them they have to.
    
    Eric

    I posted a note here a couple of weeks ago asking about the Passover
    meal, and as a result of the replies I received I bought two books
    which I (as a Gentile) found interesting and informative.
    
    One was The Concise Family Seder, prepared by Rabbi Alfred J Kolatch
    and published by Jonathan David Publishers Inc, Middle Village,
    N.Y. 11379, the other The Family Haggadah, edited by Rabbi Nosson
    Scherman and Meir Zlotowitz, published by Mesorah Publications Limited,
    Coney Island Avenue, Brookland, N.Y.
    
    The first of these seems to be fairly basic, is not too long, and
    has some brief commentary on the significance and meaning behind the
    various prayers and foods.
    
    The second book is longer and has more explanatory margin notes.
    
    I found them most interesting and informative, and gave me at least
    some idea of what happens at a Passover meal, although I would think
    that having at least a basic knowledge of the Old Testament is most
    important to this understanding.    A book like these may help your 
    friend.
    
    Vince
    

    
    RE. 4:  Actually, while I am not religious now, I did attend Hebrew
    School from age 4 to 13 and grew up in a very Jewish area (my high
    School was 50% Jewish).  I never got what I needed from it: a sence
    of community.  Occaisionally in college and after I went to a synagogue
    and talked with people there about Ethics.  I always thought that
    what I needed from a religion was standards (ethics) to "help" me
    live better.  I never saw the religion presented that way.  It is
    also very hard for a single person in small town MA to become involved
    in Jewish life.  Like a previous note stated, one lives a life as
    they can, trying to find what they need.  I've had this thought.
    

re .8:

>    I never got what I needed from it: a sence of community.

    This is an unfortunate failing of the American Jewish "community."
    There does exist a sense of community in some places (geographic
    and religious places).  These tend to be traditional (i.e. orthodox)
    simply because they regard Judaism as a way of life that touches
    all aspects of life.  If you want examples of close-knit communities,
    look at Chassidic groups, or look at the Breuer (German-Jewish)
    community in Washington Heights (NYC).

>    Occaisionally in college and after I went to a synagogue
>    and talked with people there about Ethics.  I always thought that
>    what I needed from a religion was standards (ethics) to "help" me
>    live better.  I never saw the religion presented that way.

    Another unfortunate failing.  In the traditional community, there
    has been an increasing emphasis in recent years on Mussar (ethics),
    but we still hear about shameful lapses (Bernard Bergman, cheating
    at Yeshivos, etc.).

>    It is also very hard for a single person in small town MA to become
>    involved in Jewish life.

    Absolutely.  I recently entered a note on behalf of a single who's
    looking for a community where he can live Jewishly.  He's accepted
    a job in Nashua, but is afraid that he'll lose touch with his Jewish
    roots unless he lives in a strong Jewish community (this is not
    necessarily the same as a large Jewish community).

>    Like a previous note stated, one lives a life as they can, trying
>    to find what they need.  I've had this thought.
    
    Have you found what you need?  It sounds as though you still haven't
    found a sense of community, or answers to your ethical questions.

    If you'd like to discuss this with me, feel free to call or use Email.

Re: .8 .9

Community...I've been thinking a lot about that word lately as it 
describes what I have been looking for and amazingly enough, what I have
found in my association with a shull in Acton over the past 10 years or so.
One of the keys, though, is that you have to make it happen if you want it.

I too am single, living in MA... I grew up in a Reform environment, with not
too much observance at home.  I lived in a Jewish town and went on to a 
Jewish school (Brandeis) and didn't think too much about my Jewishness; I
guess I took it for granted, what there was of it.  It was when I moved OUT
of the safe environment that I began to want to just BE with other Jewish
folks, so when I moved to Acton, I began to attend the occasional Fri eve
service and the habit became comfort.  I joined the choir because I like to
sing, and met some nice folks.  I attended some adult ed classes and met some
more folks.  I volunteered to help out in the library  because I like to read,
and now I run it...

Slowly but surely, I've become someone who is hanging around the place quite
a bit.  If the "single" issue is  that one wants to meet other singles, that
did NOT happen for me, since there are not too many of those in this 
particular community, but if you're looking for a "family of friends" in 
a Jewish context, it can certainly be a warm place to find.  My folks are 
going to be away this Pesach for the first time ever, and I'm going to go
to the Congregation community Seder, and I feel really lucky that it is
really an acceptable alternative for me.

I guess I've gone on a bit, but the word community really has touched off a
spark in some of my thoughts lately.  Make it happen and it is so rewarding!

Waky

    On the  original topic: A friend gave me a copy of "Seasons of Our
    Joy",  which  is  an  interesting  book  on  the  Jewish holidays,
    emphasizing  the interlocking cycles of sun and moon. It is of the
    school that sees Judaism changing, and has a small section in each
    chapter  on  modern views, particularly a feminist view. I find it
    goes  too far in replacing the idea of getting drunk on Purim with
    "getting  mellow" (I think to allow Marijuana instead of alcohol),
    but it is a good start.

--David

    The Jewish Publication Society sponsored a "Popular Judaica" series a
    few years.  This was a set of small books, each about one topic.  There
    was one called _Passover_ that did a pretty good summary of most of the
    things that go on during the seder and the rest of Pesah.  I don't know
    if it is still in print.

                                        Aaron