Conference taveng::bagels

    Re .0
    
    "Is there a notes-file on Yidish ?  I'm reading through some
    of these notes and I find quite number of Yidish words that
    I'm not familiar with."
    
    Dave, this is the place for discussing Yiddish. Besides we need another
    notes file like we need a "luch in kup". I've also noticed that very
    little Yiddish is used in this file. Just about everyone uses Hebrew.
    
    				Fred
    

    I grew up in a Yiddish speaking household.  If you need any help,
    drop me a line.
    
    			Charlotte

    I too grew up in a Yiddish speaking family.
    
    I'd like to take a little survey. How many of the readers in this
    file spoke Yiddish in their family? (That is all I spoke until I
    went to school).
    
    Jack

    I also grew up in a Yiddish speaking household. The only problem is
    that my parents didn't want me to speak Yiddish. One day at public
    school, my older sister asked for a "shissel" instead of a basin.
    Even though most of the teachers were Jewish there argument was "in this
    country modern Jews do not speak Yiddish." Ever since then very little
    Yiddish was spoken in front of me or my sister. Thanks to my
    grandfather I can speak a little Yiddish. 
    
    			Fred
    
    BTW - DECspell recognizes the word "Yiddish".
    
    

    We spoke a little Yiddish in the house, but my parents used it
    to keep things away from me.
    
    I've studied a little as an adult, and I want to go much further...
    
    /don feinberg

    Can anyone out there give me the definition(s) of the Yiddish word....I
    can't spell it so I'll sound it out ...TZATZK'-KA-LA.  I have a
    feeling that it's  a tongue-in-cheek negative word and I can "feel"
    it, but I can't define it.
    
    Thanks for the help.
    
    Bob Frolich
    

    Is that the word sometimes pronounced "tsatska" or "chachka"?
    
    If so, it means "junky item", as in "souvenier you bring home from
    Cape Cod".  The root is from the words for Chicken and Kaka (what
    comes out the cloaca)!  Nonetheless the term has a certain degree
    of affection associated with it  -- "It's only a tsatska but I like
    it anyway".
    
    Someone I know has so many of them that he's suggested putting together
    a "whole tsatska catalogue" showing the more interesting ones in
    his collection :-).
           fred

    "Chatchkala" (spelling varies) is diminutive for "chatchka".
    
    A good reference book is "Every Goy's Guide to Common Jewish 
    Expressions", mentioned in a previous reply (can't remember
    the note number).  Even *we* can read it...
    
    Anita

    RE .7 and .8
    
    I know the meaning of CHACHKA and CHATCHKALA <spelling doesn't count>;
    however, this word <as I understand it> is TZATZ'-KA-LA. ,,1why do
    I have a feeling that it means <and I kniow this is a sexist statement
    so let me apologize in advance to all whom I may offend> a little
    strumpet, a female "tarte", a "chippie" or a little child that's
    full of hell but a darling nevertheless.  Am I correct in my
    understanding of this word?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bob
    

< Note 123.9 by BAGELS::FROLICH >
>                               -< Yes, but.... >-
>    
>    I know the meaning of CHACHKA and CHATCHKALA <spelling doesn't count>;
>    however, this word <as I understand it> is TZATZ'-KA-LA. ,,1why do
>    I have a feeling that it means <and I kniow this is a sexist statement
>    so let me apologize in advance to all whom I may offend> a little
>    strumpet, a female "tarte", a "chippie" or a little child that's
>    full of hell but a darling nevertheless.  Am I correct in my
>    understanding of this word?
>    

       I hope  that's  not  the meaning. An ex-girlfriend used to
       calll  me tzatzkala, which I thought translated to "little
       treasure",  so  it  could  certainly be used to describe a
       small child, but I didn't know of the other uses.

--David

    re:-.several,
    Since when does Yiddish have a native mode "tsh" (usual pronunciation
    of english "CH") sound?  Often "ts" and "ch" come out the same,
    witness the Chinese name spelled "Tseung" which is pronounced "Chung".
    (Chinese, however, has many different "ch"-type sounds, but that's
    a digression.)
    
    Hence "tsatskala" slurs among Anglophones into "chachkala".  Little
    treasure.  Well, sort of.

    Which is different from Chachkies.

Previous replies have given a couple of the meanings.  According to Leo
Rosten's "The Joys of Yiddish":

tsatske, tsatskeleh, tchotchke, tchotchkeleh
Pronounced TSAHTS-keh, to rhyme with "Tosca";  TSAHTS-keh-leh,
to rhyme with "Oscela:;  TCHOCH-keh, to rhyme with "botch a";
TCHOCH-keh-leh, to rhyme with "notcch a la."
From Slavic: shalet: "to play pranks."

Tsatske and tchotchke are used interchangeably.  Tsatskeleh and
tchotchkeleh are diminutives of tsatske and tchotchke.

A tsatske is:
       1. A toy, a little plaything.  "I bought the child a tsatske."
       2. An inexpensive, unimportant thing; a gewgaw; a trinket.
          "He gave her some tsatske or other for her trouble."
       3. A bruise, contusion, wound.  "He had a tsatske under each eye."
       4. A nobody; no bargain.  "Don't listen to that one; he's
          some tsatske."
       5. A msifit, an unadjusted child, a problem and burden to one
          and all.  "What can wee do about him?  Since he joined the
          club he's been a tsatske."
       6. A loose or kept woman.
       7. An ineffectual person, a fifth wheel, a disappointment.

But the usages I [Leo Rosten]  most relish are:
       8. A cute female; a pretty little number; a chick; a babe;
          a playgirl.
       9. A sexy but brainless broad.

At one time, so I am told, West End Avenue in New York had an
inordinately high proportion of tchotchkies (plural).

               ---------------

Old Mr. Gluck had finally moved to the suburbs. On a trip into New York,
he met a friend who bombarded him with questions.  "How do you like it?
Living in the country, so far from everyone!"
  "At first I had problems," said Gluck, "I thought I'd never be able to
stand it!  Then I listened to my neighbors, and got a paramour.  From
then on, everything has been fine!"
  "A paramour!  You?  Gluck, how can you do such a terrible thing?  What
does your wife think?"
  "My wife?" frowned Gluck.  "Why should she care how I cut the grass?"

    RE .13
    
    Thank you.
    That's just the list I needed...the little story at the end wasn't
    bad either............
    
    Also, thanks to all of you who responded to my question; it's nice
    to know that there are so many friends close by.
    
    /Bob
    

Reminds me of another old joke.  Next time someone boasts about their
knowledge of yiddish, try this on them.

So, you think you know Yiddish ?  Translate these:  "shmotte"

	Easy, a rag.

Ok, good so far, how about "schlemeel".

	A dummy, always making mistakes.

Fine, how about "grotchkee"

	Grotchkee ?

Yeah, come on, what's it mean ?

	Grotchkee ?  I don't know.  I give up.

It's what you open the grotch door with you nimwit !

/Eric

    I disagree with the replies that throw Tchatchke and Tsatskele into
    the same pot.
    
    All my life I heard the word Tchatchke used in more or less as
    knick-knack, with the implied connotation of not being particularly
    valuable ("Oh, those shelves are filled with a bunch of Tchatchkes"
    or, "It's just a Tchatchke").
    
    I rarely heard the word Tsatskele, but it was my uncle's pet name
    for my cousin, and I doubt if he would have called her that if it
    had the dual meaning of worthless broad, etc. I also asked my
    mother-in-law (79, spoke only Yiddish the first 5 years of her life)
    and she translated it into "jewel" or "treasure".
    
    Maybe some people "merged" the two words, but I vote for the word
    Tsatskele as a term of endearment, esp. towards a child.
    
    Dick Rosenberg