Conference taveng::bagels

    In THE_PHEONIX there is a keyword for religion perference, all you
    have to do is check on it...
    
    I don't think starting a new topic in this conference is a good
    idea, that is what separate conferences are for...
    
    GLK

    The "haves" are always keeping down the "have-not's".   ;-)
    
                                            (or is that "have-not-niks")

    By the way, I think it's a good idea.
    
    Rich G.

    I like the idea.  To avoid bogging down the "haves" with more notes
    to read, I suggest:
    
    - making all ads responses to a single note;
    - replying directly to the sender, not responding here.  
      I know this seems obvious, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
    
    A word from the moderator?

    I really wanted to reply to this note this a.m., but I had a meeting
    and then had to go off-site.  
    
    First of all let me state that I am a "have", drowning in the exotic
    state of marital bliss, and have a child to boot.  So what?  I don't
    think that this has anything to do with my opinion that the flow
    of topics in this notesfile has any room for a personals file. 
    
    I'm very sensitive to the issues of Jewish singles, and their need
    for good outlets for meeting.  But you all should consider the overall
    scope of who is participating in BAGELS, Jews who work for DEC in
    Israel and Europe (maybe even GIA?), what use is it to them to read
    Jewish personals centered around the Mass./So. N.H. area?
    
    I think that is integral to BAGELS to discuss issues and crises
    which confront Israel, the Middle East, Diaspora communities, Judaism,
    etc.  Yes, we can have an occasional lighter-hearted note on Jewish
    Humor, delicatessens, etc.  But if we start going off on a tangent and
    creating a Jewish Personals, then I think we will have lost the
    direction.
    
    It's not an issue of the "haves", and "have-nots", it's an issue
    of the purpose of BAGELS.  It's also an issue of having to think
    beyond the scope of DEC being a "local" company to that of a
    multinational.  We have at our hands a computer conference that
    brings Jews from all over the world together to discuss the "whole
    ball-of-wax".
    
    I'm not that up-to-date on the software operating notesfiles, but
    it seems as though we ought to be able to spawn some sub-process
    in which a Jewish personals can run.  In this context I can accept
    it.
    
    Again I don't think that it is an issue of "haves vs. have-nots",
    it's a question of the purpose of the file.
    
    Just give me a second here to put on my "flame-retardent" suit, OK
    I'm ready.
    
    David
                                      
    

	My original intent of BAGELS was a file to cover ALL aspects
	of Judaism and Israel.  I think this category is not too
	far off that theme.  If anything, all I have done was to
	set aside an area where Jews, single or not, can meet.
	Sure, the title is Jewish Singles but perhaps that was a
	mistake.  WOuld anyone object to making it Jewish Groups ?
	Then ANY and EVERYONE can find people that they would like to meet.
	Maybe there are married couples who would like to meet that
	same, etc.

	Up for any offers ?

	Michael

	Keeping it a democracy.

    OK, "Moti", I've always been guilty of letting a combination of
    idealism and "benevolent dictatorship" get the best of me.  If the
    JEWISH GROUPS topic can run parallel with everything else on BAGELS,
    then I am all for it.  I was just afraid of the file being inundated
    with Jewish personals and nothing else.
    
    David "Your friendly, benevolent dictator"

	No problem, David, this is why I gave it
	on note topic instead of a whole file.  SOrt
	of an expanded Registration.

	Michael

Submitted for your approval........

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:	SWATT::MAGENHEIM    "What? Me, worry?" 19-MAY-1986 14:31
To:	LEAGLE::GOLDSTEIN,CONS::SCHWARTZ,MAGENHEIM   
Subj:	Am I missing something...?

Maybe it's because I was in school all weekend, and have only had one cup
of coffee today, but what did the two of you mean by the "haves" vs. the
"have-nots".  I assume it was in response to the FIRST response to my 
note in BAGELS ("Calling all Jewish singles!!!"), but I'm SO confused!!
Would you care to enlighten me?

Thanks,
Anita

                                  [and]

From:	CONS::SCHWARTZ  "Steve Schwartz * HLO2-3/C10 * (617) 568-4804  19-May-1986 1441" 19-MAY-1986 14:37
To:	SWATT::MAGENHEIM,LEAGLE::GOLDSTEIN
Subj:	Are you missing something...?

I assumed it was "have" a spouse, vs...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First of all, I don't really have very much to say to SCHWARTZ.  I ask what
you are doing for dinner on Saturday Night, and my over-agressive, low-down, 
co-respondent tries to beat me to the draw by asking what you are doing for
dinner on Friday Night.  I should hope he would know you would be in "shul"
on Friday Night and of course you would be having boiled chicken for dinner.
(But not to be outdone, what are you doing for dinner, tonight?) 
(HA HA Schwartz - Top That!)


In any event (I obviously have too much free time on my hands) my use of the
terms "have's" and "have-nots" did indeed refer to the eternal conflict 
between (among?) those who have no wants and those who have not.  You know, 
single people and double people (no, not extra fat people, just people with
significant others, husbands, wives, pets, etc...  you get the idea.)

IT WAS A JOKE! (am I over-reacting here?                         or here?)   

And I just made the assumption (which apparently is an incorrect one) that
since the first response to a GREAT! idea was a poo-pooing (watch your vowels
with this one) that the writer, Gail Kleinberger I believe, was a together
person and not a singular person and hence (lawyers love to talk this way)
either wasn't interested in single life or didn't want to be reminded about
single life.  I stand corrected on that premise, and appoligize for any
misunderstandings.

Thank you for coming...

   Good Night...

      and Please Drive Carefully!

                                                     Rich 

	Yes, Drive carefully.


	

>And I just made the assumption (which apparently is an incorrect one) that
>since the first response to a GREAT! idea was a poo-pooing (watch your vowels
>with this one) that the writer, Gail Kleinberger I believe, was a together
>person and not a singular person and hence (lawyers love to talk this way)
>either wasn't interested in single life or didn't want to be reminded about
>single life.  I stand corrected on that premise, and appoligize for any
>misunderstandings.


Alright, this is the person who is *together* [thanks for the compliment]
but who is very singular, and at last check still interested in the single 
life...

First of all, I am not Jewish, but read this conference ever since a group 
called Jews for Jesus came to my church and I have been interested in the 
Jewish culture... I usually only read, and when I did put something in here 
before I went through Mike Mahler so not to interrupt the flow that was going.

However, when I came to the question that you posed, I felt the need to say 
something - not becuase I am a have or a have not, not becuase I am Jewish 
or not, but becuase I went to great pains to have Mike Foley start the 
singles file way back in October, and to have it become a conference when 
VAXNOTES came along.  Tom Blinn went through great pains to set up keywords to 
make it better.  It is one central place that single people can read about 
other single people.  What if the Christian conference decided to do the 
same thing, and then the airplane conference did a topic for those only 
interested in planes, or the trains conference did on people only interested in 
trains... then a single person who might want to met another single person 
would have to read The_Pheonix, then Bagels, then Christianity, then 
planes, then trains, and what if a conference that they did not even know 
about held Mr/Miss Right-to-be.

I am sorry you felt I was poo-pooing (that is the term you used, am I not 
correct) your great idea... obviously I thought it was a great idea when I 
took the original thought to Mike... I just think you should keep it under 
one roof, not several...

Gale

    I'm almost sorry I brought up the whole mess (not entirely, but
    almost...)  However, having been the second woman to enter a personal
    back in the VNOTES days of PERSONALS, I found I was getting the
    wrong (well, not right) people responding to it.  Perhaps I wasn't
    specific around religion.  Your point is very well taken, but I
    find it hard to sift through THE_PHOENIX, to see whether someone's
    Jewish or not, and believe me, it really DOES matter...
    
    If I knew how much "flaming" there would be about this, I might
    have held my tongue.  The glow is worse than Chernobyl...
    
    Anyway, it was just an idea.  So?  Do you think we should go ahead,
    Mr. Moderator?  BTW, I notice you have a personal in THE_PHOENIX,
    without mentioning that you preferred a Jewish woman (I spoke to
    you many moons ago).  Is that because you felt funny specifying
    it in that arena (perhaps it doesn't matter)?  I know I did, back
    when PERSONALS was in VNOTES, hence the sugggestion.  I'll end my
    flaming here....
    
    Anita
    
    P.S.  In my opinion, Jews for Jesus are a bunch of hypocrites, but
          that could be another topic in BAGELS, one sure to produce
    	  lots of responses.

    
    >P.S.  In my opinion, Jews for Jesus are a bunch of hypocrites, but
    >      that could be another topic in BAGELS, one sure to produce
    >	  lots of responses.
    
    Anita...see topic 43.0, as that is the topic I had Mike restart, because
    I was interested in the group...Gale

    Short of setting up a relational database for matching singles
    (hi-tech computer data-ing?),
    what is wrong with a singles note in appropriate files?
    If I were looking for a match in the hardcopy personals, 
    I would check the _Jewish_Advocate_, the _Jewish_Press_, or the
    _New_York_Review_of_Books_ ;-).  This because the Jewish aspect
    is of paramount import to me.  Similarly, if I were a passionate
    fisherman, I might drop a line :-} in -that- file.

   	"...and a proper day for making matches for the daughters."
    			--- a popular Shabbat table song

        "...don't forget the sons."
    			--- a wily artificial intelligence engineer

		Woah, check this out, BAGELS is getting hot and
	heavy again.  I love it.  Machete please...

	I agree with everyone, and no one.



	

    Well here's my 2 cents worth. I have been a reader (not voyeur)
    of THE_PHOENIX since I got added as a member. I haven't put in a
    reply because I am never in town and probably wouldn't be able to
    make a decent contact if I'm never here. I will be adding an entry
    soon (push me if I don't). I don't think we need a Jewish Singles
    note here because we can participate with everyone else. Lets get
    rid of the myth that since we are of a different faith we have to
    do everything different. I would like to see more get togethers
    maybe for jewish singles in this file (you know brunch, party, etc
    etc (maybe even a Seder next year or a 'break the fast' after Yom
    Kippur).. but lets keep the 'personals' in THE_PHOENIX.
    
    	On the same topic has anyone out there used the real PHOENIX
    or Boston mag personals (either placed and ad or answered one) or
    one of the 'Jewish' dating services? I have noticed that at least
    in the PHOENIX there SJF ads (I don't know about the SJM's cause
    I don't look at them) always seem to have mail waiting for them
    which makes me reluctant to write. After all if I'm going to answer
    an ad I would like to know that she is going to read the mail. Besides
    that I don't know what to say. 
    
    	

    Yes it's getting hot and heavy again, but when I look at the directory
    I see a majority of the "serious" topics with hardly any response
    to speak of.  I guess that's what was my initial concern with this
    business of starting up a Jewish Personals note, I knew that there
    would be a lot of response to this subject.
    
    My other concern was that re: Jews who work for DEC in other countries,
    what interest would they have in it?  I guess I'm just someone who
    never concerns himself with is locality, but the world at large.
    
    By the way, the World Jewish Congress has just come out with some
    astonishing figures on the future (in numbers) of the Jewish people,
    and assimilation and intermarriage play an important role in this.
    I have sent away for some detailed information on this, and as soon
    as I get it I will relay it in a note here.
    
    My wife and I have an avocation which we do on Sunday while reading
    the newspaper, we usually turn to the wedding announcements and
    count the number of mixed marriages that are taking place, believe
    me it can get very depressing.  Now don't you think that I am as
    interested as the next person in seeing Jewish singles meet? 
    
    David "still your friendly, benevolent dictator"

    I agree with Anita in the base note. We do need a separate singles
    file or at least one note in this file. Even though I am married
    now, between my two marriages I've spent five years as bachelor.
    All it took was one short year of single life for me to realize
    that I could never settle for anyone other than a Jewish woman.
    Ever since that realization I have mostly attended Jewish single
    activities. The lesson is simple. If you want to meet a Jewish
    partner, you go where there are Jews. (Don't knock Jewish singles
    dances. I first met my wife at one.) 
    
    The same goes for a personals file. You stand a much better chance
    of meeting a Jewish partner in this file than if you go elsewhere.
    As far as THE_PHOENIX file is concerned, if one advertises as an
    SJM or SJF isn't that a message to all other readers of the file?
    To me it means if you are not Jewish, don't bother answering. By
    advertising in this way we are separating our advertisements from
    the others. So why not list your ad in this file? Besides what is
    wrong with being separate? It's our heritage. We've been that way
    for thousands of years.
    
    The only problem I can envision is that someone would advertise
    in this file and give the impression that they are Jewish when,
    in fact, they are not.
    
    Even though I agree with the basic idea of your note, Anita, I
    don't think it was nice of you to take a swipe at the JFJs. I
    don't want any one to call me a Jewish so and so. For that reason
    I don't call anyone else names. Remember "Do not do to others what
    you would not want them to do to you." Besides, once you realize
    that the JFJs are not Jewish, you won't get so upset.
    
    				Fred
    

	
	Good points all of you.  I have a problem here though,
	some of the best relationships I have had were with
	non-Jewish women.  Not that I could not with a Jewish woman,
	but that I have yet to.  (Perhaps it was the Lawn-guy-land
	stigma that didn't agree with me.

	Anyway,  I would hope that having a Jewish Singles Topic
	would help matters, and if it even helps one couple hit
	it off, then it has served a priceless life, or two.

	Mad Man Mordecai The Mauler of MR2's.

    I wasn't necessarily taking a swipe at JFJs (once I realized what
    the heck you were talking about), but you basically said the same
    thing in your last sentence "once you realize that JFJs are not 
    Jewish..."  That's all was getting at, that Jews for Jesus are, in
    my opinion now, oxymorons (like Jumbo Shrimp or military intelligence).
    But this is getting away from the premise of the base note...

	David, what's wron giwth...

	SJM LOOKING FOR SJF IN READING ENGLAND.

	Cuz this files is based in the Newest of the Old does
	not mean that someone oversea's can not use it to find
	someone else oversea's,   No ?

	Michael The Damager.

    Mike,
    
    Have you ever tried to initiate and maintain a long-distance
    relationship?
    
    David
    

	What I meant was that someone in Reading might
	meet someone else in Reading through this file.

	NO I never have driven there, I was too tired
	after swimming.


	Michael

< Note 126.21 by PFLOYD::CHERSON "We're all bozos on this bus" >
                    -< It's a hell of a drive to Reading! >-

    Ok, if two star-crossed people can meet in Reading via this file,
    than more power to you.
    
    D.C.

    I often wonder if people who meet through personal ads actually
    develop "long term" or "meaningful" relationships.
    
    			Fred

     re .2x:
     
     I have heard of some long-distance relationships that eventually
     work out in one way or another.
     
     --Mr Topaz

    I know of a couple (now married several years, one child) who
    met by way of his ad in The Phoenix.  He was Jewish, she converted.
    So it does happen.
    
    			-John Bishop

    re: .-1 
    Talking about me again, John... By the way, it's been less than 
    3 years, not "several years".
    Yes, Phoenix ads can work

    	- Rich

    Well... After all the hubbub (and SOME ferbissiner comments) about this
    topic, I must say I'm disappointed to see how few people have inputted
    to topic 128.  Maybe the ferbissiner comments were justified...
    
    Whaddya say, Michael?  Think we ought to trash it?

    
    No, I like the idea of this note.
    
                                                    Mike K.
    
    (still waiting to find out if there are any other jewish singles
    in Colorado)

    The only reason the suggestion of "trashing" it came up, was that
    there have only been three (count 'em, three) entries in all this time.
    (Not only that, but I don't know how the other two are doing, but
    there's been little response, even to this note.)  %^{
    
    In response to .29, try it, you'll like it!  Who knows? Someone
    could be planning a trip to Colorado.
    
    								Anita

    Hello all - I'm new in this file, and I certainly feel that it is
    a place for a personal if, as mentioned in a previous entry, if
    it brings two people together - then its worth it.  SOOOOOOOO, here
    goes.....
    
    I am single, jewish (otherwise I'd be putting this in THE_PHOENIX),
    36, petite, auburn-haired, attractive, fun-loving, good wit and
    affectionate.  I love dancing/music and am very active w/activities
    including skiing, scuba diving, cycling, softball.  My interests
    go on (but need not here).  I work in Marlboro and live in Westboro.
    (There, that should be enough!)  
    
    I have my career and my friends but would like to meet that special
    someone.   If you are 32+, sincere, comfortable with yourself (but
    not stuck on yourself), a gentleman, enjoy an active and sharing
    life, please reply via mail. 
                                 
    Obviously, I feel if we can use this conference as a vehicle to
    meet others - so be it!
    
    						Valerie
    
    
    
    
    
    including skiing, scuba diving, cycling, softball
    
    
    
    

    
    There is a Jewish Singles organization in MA, here's the address:
    
    
	The Jewish Singles Service
	723 Beacon Street
 	Number #1
	Newton, MA   02159

    As I remember it is a pretty long listing (20-40 pages, 4-5
    personals/page) and comes out once a month.  I think it is
    only $10 for a yearly (mailed) subscription and the age groups
    are pretty well distributed.  The ads are mostly from eastern
    Massachusetts, but there are also ads from NH, NY, NJ and
    western MA.


    David

    I THOUGHT SOMEBODY WOULD NEVE ASK!
    
    My entry into this indicates not an exclusivity of my direction
    of interests in people but an inclusivity! I want to reach people
    that can undestand my humor and background and don't have the
    possibilityof hidden prejudice,It is hard enough to get a good rela-
    tionship going w/o the burden of judgement or prejudgement!
     My particulars are in Singles note #7 and Whoareyou #659 and
    The_Pheonix under AmazingGrace arond #127-129.Does it pay to advertise?
    I am divorced and have no children> I'm quite well adjusted and
    so is my ex-partner.In fact we are still friends! I love life love,and
    possibilities> Let's go!        Russ Grace

	New address for the Jewish Singles Service

	P.O. Box 247
	Newton, MA 02159

	(617) 244-7316

	They are growing rapidly.  I just saw the current
	issue and it has grown in size and readership.  It
	also lists Jewish singles event in the New York and
	Boston areas.

	David