Conference taveng::bagels

I found this write-up by Bruce Krulwich about the seminar on USENET:

The internationally renowned Discovery Seminar is a weekend program that
looks at the question "Can modern rational methods also be used to validate
Jewish beliefs, or is Judaism just a matter of faith??"  It will be held in
Chicago (for the first time) on February 16-18 at the Ramada Inn in
Northbrook.  For more information about it, call the Migdal Torah Jewish
Learning Center at (312) 465-7600.  

I've transcribed part of the Discovery brochure below.  I strongly
recommend this weekend, because everyone I know who's gone to one
(observant or not) has absolutely loved it.


		      -------------------------------

			   The Discovery Weekend

What is Discovery?

DISCOVERY is an exciting weekend seminar which has captured the hearts and
minds of 40,000 Jews on 4 continents, from New York to Nairobi.  It aims to
provide a thoughtful, intelligent answer to the question "why be Jewish?"
The seminar is not a nostalgic reiteration of Jewish traditions and
history.  It is a bold compelling display of Judaism's past, present, and
future vitality.

The program is designed for Jewish men and women of all ages who are short
on time but long on curiosity, who have a sophisticated secular education
and an interest in Jewish studies.  DISCOVERY is packed with
stimulating workshops.  Explore:

	Love, Sex, and Marriage: an eye-opening and frank discussion of
        Judaism's insights into the meaing of relationships, marriage,
	love, and infatuation.

	The Soul, the Body, and the Afterlife: What is the purpose of our
	existance?  What happens when we die?

	Failsafe: a series of workshops which employ the techniques of the
	Israeli Mossad to explore the Torah's origin.


		      -------------------------------
The weekend includes: 

	 A Scientist's Perspective on G-d, Torah, and the Universe

A seminar with Dr. Andrew Goldfinger, Senior Physicist and Supervisor of
the Space Computer Technology Section at Johns Hopkins University Applied
Physics Laboratory:

Would you like to travel to faraway, exotic places?  If so, then join Dr.
Andrew Goldfinger in a cross-country, cross-the-centuries exploration of
Jewish belief.  Travel back to the dark ages of the Scopes monkey Trial and
enter the humid 1925 Tennessee courtroom where science and religion waged
war and both lost.  Contrast it to the knowledge we now have in quantum
theory and relativistic cosmology and see how the most sophisticated
scientific theories of today parallel age-old tenets of Jewish belief.


Next, travel farther back to the dawn of time, when the universe was a
singularity and darkness was on the face of the deep.  Follow the course of
creation from the point of view of the Torah, the sages, and modern
astrophysics.  Finally, return to the age of computers and examine the
codes, hidden in the Torah for over 3000 years and yet describing specific
incidents in recent history.

No scientific background is necessary, just the ability to stretch one's
mind to the outer limits.

		      -------------------------------

Saturday night of the program will feature:

		       The Hidden Codes of the Torah

A provocative presentation of the hidden messages discovered in the Torah
through computer research.  The presentation will be followed by a saturday
night festive Melave Malka.

This part of the program will be open as a seperate program from the
DISCOVERY weekend for those who wish.

		      -------------------------------

Prices (which include meals and rooms) can be gotten from Migdal Torah.
Rates include a special student rate and a special rate for single
occupancy rooms.  Also, the Saturday night presentation of the codes is
open separately.  For rates and other information, call Migdal Torah at
(312) 465-7600.

Other contacts:

St. Louis : (314)862-2474
Toronto   : (416)636-7530
LA	  : (213)621-3054
NJ	  : (201)370-9053
NY	  : (212)643-8800
Miami	  : (305)949-0655,0110
U.K.	  : (051)734-0212
Brazil    : 237-6079

    [This does seem like a better note in which to discuss the questions of
    codes in the Tanach.]

    RE: 841.50

 >   what does "merely" mean?

    As nearly as I can gather, the "codes" are produced by a form of
    systematic sampling and the results are compared to what might be
    expected from a "random" text.  To know whether the results are really
    statistically significant requires checking the procedures and
    calculations and, although I think I know something about statistics, I
    really can't do that on the fly.

>You seem to be very willing to jump to conclusions before you've even so
>much as requested a brochure!

    If I do, it's because I've seen things like this before, and I've yet
    to see something that stood up to rigorous analysis.  If there is
    something worthwhile I expect to see it in the literature eventually;
    if it doesn't show up in print it may be because the authors don't have
    confidence in it.

>Perhaps, on the other hand, I shouldn't be so surprised. As Prof. Y. Kaufmann
>writes (Religion of Israel, 1961, P.1): "Biblical scholars, while admitting that
>the ground has crumbled away under the documentary hypothesis, nevertheless
>continued to adhere to its conclusions."

    There are a lot of things I admire about that book, but 

    a) I know of no biblical scholars who admit the "ground has crumbled
    away under the documentary hypothesis" (if anything, it has been
    strengthened), and 

    b) it is Kaufmann's hypothesis that has been crumbling.  (From a
    scholarly standpoint it was one of the more useful hypotheses, because
    it stimulated a lot of work, but the work has tended to discredit it.)

			---------------------------

    RE: 824.1

>What is Discovery?...Explore:
...
>	The Soul, the Body, and the Afterlife: What is the purpose of our
>	existance?  What happens when we die?

    Since I don't believe in an afterlife I don't see where this is likely
    to offer me much of interest.
...
>	Failsafe: a series of workshops which employ the techniques of the
>	Israeli Mossad to explore the Torah's origin.

    This is the kind of thing that turns me off.  I also use the
    "techniques of the Israeli Mossad" because I read and write. 
    Statistical analysis was not developed by the Mossad.
...
>A provocative presentation of the hidden messages discovered in the Torah
>through computer research.  The presentation will be followed by a saturday
>night festive Melave Malka.

    This might be a fun program, but it does not look like the place I'd go
    for an intellectual analysis of the "evidence."

    You see, the problem I have is not that I refuse to "look at the
    evidence," but that, as far as I can tell, these presentations are
    designed to snow people with "scientific" data in order to recruit them
    to a particular point of view (or reinforce the beliefs of people who
    already believe in these conclusions).  If the evidence is really that
    good,  it should be published or presented at a scholarly meeting, not
    just at a session for people who needn't have any scientific background.

    					Aaron

Re: .2

>  If there is
>    something worthwhile I expect to see it in the literature eventually;
>    if it doesn't show up in print it may be because the authors don't have
>    confidence in it.

I'm not sure which "literature" you read, but there is a new scholarly work
out (presently only in Hebrew, but being
translated), by Doron Vitzdam: Maimad Ha-nosaf, 1989. The forward is by
Dr. D. Kazhdan of the Harvard dept. of mathematics.

Here are a couple of the "codes" instructors:

Dr. Harold Gans, senior mathematician, U.S. DOD

Dr. Andrew Goldfinger, senior physicist, Johns Hopkins Applied Physics 
Research Lab.

> these presentations are
>    designed to snow people

These don't appear to be the kind of people normally associated with
"snow-jobs". 

Without claiming to be an expert, the issue doesn't *appear* to be one
of *credibility*, so much as what precisely is proven, as Fred pointed 
out in 841.53. Let me know what you think of the research, and see you
at the seminar!

Jem

Aish HaTorah (not Ohr Someach, as I said in the base note) sponsors the
Discovery Seminars.  They've begun giving them to Soviet immigrants in
Israel.  If you're interested in helping to sponsor Discovery Seminars
aimed at Soviet olim, please contact me offline.

There's another Discovery Seminar in Boston on Sunday, February 3.
I've heard that these seminars are real eye-openers and are definitely
worth your time.

Here's the text of the flyer being used to advertise it:



				A Jew

You know, someone like you or me.  But what does being Jewish mean to those
of us with sophisticated secular educations and perhaps nothing more than
fading memories of Hebrew school?

For 3500 years, being a Jew was the core of our ancestors' existence.
They held more tightly to Judaism than they clung to their lives.

Did they have it all wrong?  Or did *we* miss the boat?

On February 3, the Aish Ha'Torah Discovery Sunday seminar will give you a
taste ot the philosophy that made Judaism such a force for our grandparents.
It will help you explore the fundamentals of Jewish living, and will reveal
the findings of mathematicians and computer scientists who have documented
astounding codes in the Torah, codes that foretell 20th-century events in
astonishing, sometimes frightening, detail.

But the amazing Discovery seminar has dazzled its more than 41,000
participants not just for the information it delivers on the traditional
Jewish perspective and on the authenticity of the Torah.  It demands
that you apply your intellectual skills as you join top scholars in
a rigorous examination of Jewish life and belief.  It will challenge
many ideas that a lot of us haven't touched since we were 13 years old.

The participation fee is $25, which covers the seminar, a kosher lunch,
and refreshments.  Give it one Sunday, for good company, tasty food,
and a Discovery that might alter the course of your life.

			   The Discovery Seminar

		   Sunday, February 3, from 9:30 to 6:00
		   233 Bay State Road, Boston (BU Campus)

	For information or reservations call (617) 267-6552 of 232-1879

   Sponsored in part by the Combined Jewish Philanthropies of Greater Boston