Conference taveng::bagels

    Re: .0
    
    Although I don't have the sources in front of me, I believe the
    Tosafot in Brachot 31A or 32A discuss this question. The reason
    they give is "lo yimaleh adam s'chok piv ba'olam hazeh"; the
    rabbis felt that the reveling at weddings was getting out of hand,
    and breaking an expensive utensil was a means of toning it down
    somewhat.
    
    Today, especially in Israel, some have a custom of singing "IF
    I forget thee O Jerusalem" before the breaking of the glass to
    recall the destruction of the Temple.
    
    Jem

    During my wedding ceremony last year, the officiating rabbi explained
    each part of the ceremony and symbolisms to us and the congregation.  
    According to him, the breaking of the glass is to remind us of the 
    destruction of the Temple.
    
    
    
                   
    
    

    One of the Jewish wedding books we looked at before our marriage
    listed 10-20 reasons for the glass breaking, everything from a reminder
    that we shouldn't forget sad times even in the midst of happiness
    to a noise to scare off evil spirits to a symbol for the fall of
    the temple.  My chief impression was that there was no one definitive
    meaning for the practice, but instead a host of meanings had been 
    attached to the custom over time.
                    
    
    Gene

   < . . . the breaking of the glass is to remind us of the 
   < destruction of the Temple.

Yes, that's what I always had heard, too.
    

    Re: .0
    
    See my note 181.10 in this Notesfile for explanations.

    Re .1

>    Although I don't have the sources in front of me, I believe the
>    Tosafot in Brachot 31A or 32A discuss this question. The reason
>    they give is "lo yimaleh adam s'chok piv ba'olam hazeh"; the
>    rabbis felt that the reveling at weddings was getting out of hand,
>    and breaking an expensive utensil was a means of toning it down
>    somewhat.
    
    Wow, kol hakavod Jem, it's from Brachot 31a.

    Actually, it's not Tosafot, but the Gemara that says "asur l'adam
    sh'ymale s'chok piv ba'olam hazeh" which means literally "a man 
    must not fill his mouth with laughter (be frivolous) in this world".
    The Geonim say that refers to be'et haGalut (in the time of dispersion),
    because the Gemara continues with the verse from Psalms 126 - "az
    yimaleh s'chok pinu u'lshoneinu rina" meaning (only) "then will fill
    laughter our mouth and joy our tongue".
    The Gemara continues with "eimatai?" i.e. when will that be - bizman
    sh"yomru vagoim higdil Hashem la'asot im eleh", that is, "when the
    nations will say the Lord has done greatly with these" (meaning Israel).

    The occasion, the Gemara refers to, as when laughter will fill our mouth,
    is the first verse of Psalm 126 "b'shuv Hashem et shivat Zion hayinu 
    k'cholmim" - when the Lord returns (the son of) Zion, we were like 
    dreamers.

    The folklore explanation:
    
    That the broken glass and also the bride circling the groom seven
    times (starting on the RIGHT foot only) were to protect against
    evil spirits.  The circling specifically to protect against the
    female evil spirit who would like to get to the groom before the
    bride does!

Re: .0

>There is a discussion going on in another Conference around the 
>tradition of the breaking of the glass at a Jewish wedding ceremony.

BTW, which conference is it?

Jem

    The conference   that   this  started  in  was  WomanNotes,  in  a
    discussion of wedding customs.

    Another reason  I've heard is to remind us of the comandments, and
    the breaking of the tablets under Moses.

--David

As long as we're speculating, I came across an intriguing interpretation of the Gemara mentioned
above. The following bothered me: if the point is to tone down festivities, why is the wedding
singled out, every happy occasion should include a symbol to mitigate the reveling. And why did
Rav Ashi choose an expensive utensil as a device to change the mood - certainly an announcement
of bad news would have accomplished the same end, and unfortunately there is never a dearth of such
news items.

One possible homiletic explanation is as follows. Rav Ashi (see source for other astonishing
events) was making a profound point: singing and dancing is very easy ON the wedding day. The
question is, what about after the honeymoon is over, 40 days or 40 years later? Sometimes dinner
is burned, or the toothpaste is not squeezed from the bottom, or a piece of expensive china
will fall and shatter.

These are the aspects of life that the bride and groom don't wish to think about. They are naturally
in a state of ecstasy, in a dream-world believing that mundane problems can't POSSIBLY affect
THEM - love conquers all! Rav Ashi says no, these are things everybody faces sooner or later,
and the sooner they're confronted, the better people are able to plan for the unpleasantries
in the future. Just as the wedding goes on after the glass is broken, so too should we learn
to put trivialities in perspective for the rest of our married lives. If we really learn this lesson,
there's a chance that the bliss we experience our whole lives will resemble the joy of the wedding
day.

Hope I didn't put everybody to sleep with that little sermon.

G'mar Chatima Tova.

Jem

    Well, jem, no, it didn't put me asleep. However, it took quite some
    guessing from my part, since you seem to have written your reply
    in at least 85 column mode :-)
    
    Just a remark.

As long as we're speculating, I came across an intriguing
interpretation of the Gemara mentioned
above. The following bothered me: if the
point is to tone down festivities, why is the wedding
singled out, every happy occasion should include a
symbol to mitigate the reveling. And why did
Rav Ashi choose an expensive utensil as a device to
change the mood - certainly an announcement
of bad news would have accomplished the same end,
and unfortunately there is never a dearth of such
news items.

One possible homiletic explanation is as follows.
Rav Ashi (see source for other astonishing
events) was making a profound point: singing and
dancing is very easy ON the wedding day. The
question is, what about after the honeymoon is over,
40 days or 40 years later? Sometimes dinner
is burned, or the toothpaste is not squeezed from
the bottom, or a piece of expensive china
will fall and shatter.

These are the aspects of life that the bride and
groom don't wish to think about. They are naturally
in a state of ecstasy, in a dream-world believing
that mundane problems can't POSSIBLY affect
THEM - love conquers all! Rav Ashi says no, these
are things everybody faces sooner or later,
and the sooner they're confronted, the better
people are able to plan for the unpleasantries
in the future. Just as the wedding goes on after
the glass is broken, so too should we learn
to put trivialities in perspective for the rest of
our married lives. If we really learn this lesson,
there's a chance that the bliss we experience our
whole lives will resemble the joy of the wedding day.

Hope I didn't put everybody to sleep with that
little sermon.

G'mar Chatima Tova.

Jem

    When my brother got married a few years ago,
    the Rabbi gave a very different explanation
    for the breaking of the glass.
    
    He said that the shattered wine glass was to
    ensure that no one but the bride and groom 
    would drink from that glass (assuming that the
    smashed glass was the same from which they
    in the presence of G-d, sharing a bond and
    making a vow in His presence was "sealed" with
    the breaking of the glass. No other person would
    ever be able to infringe on that special moment.
    
    Now I always thought it was for remembrance of
    the destruction of the Temple, a reminder that
    no matter how happy we are at this moment, we
    have to remember sadder times to heighten the
    appreciation for where we are at the present.
    But I thought this Rabbi's explanation was
    charmingly romantic.
    
    leah rifka
    

    I'd say, both explanations are not necessarily in conflict whith
    each other.

    Other occasions also have their "breaking of the glass".  If you
    repaint your house I was told that you shouldn't repaint a small
    patch somewhere, for the same reasons as we break a glass at a wedding.
    
    
    WS