Conference taveng::bagels

Shalom,

An eruv is a merging of boundaries.  Halacha prohibits carrying in
a public place or from a private place to a public one.  An eruv is
a legal means of merging adjacent private places into a single one.
In order to do so fence is placed around the area in question (usually
by stringing a wire on the tops of telephone poles  8^{).  And a
particular legalistic formula is used declaring the areas merged.

By establishing an eruv the community makes it possible to carry within
the eruv.  This makes many things more convenient, for example:
	You can carry your tallit and siddur to the synagogue
	You can push your children to the synagogue in a stroller
	You can carry your keys (maybe not important in Sharon  8^{)
	You can carry a handkerchief

It is important to all Jews who observe halacha in that it provides
substantial convenience.  It generally has no effect on non-observant
Jews (except that community funds may be spent on establishing and
maintaining the eruv).

If necessary some of the more knowlegable in our community can add more
detail.

L'hit,
Gavriel

    Let me start off by saying that this is NOT meant to be disrepectful,
    but I expect, because I can't think of how to phrase this any better
    and get my questions across, it might easily be interpreted that
    way.
    
    First is an ERUV part of Halacha or is it a rabbinically sanctioned
    way to skirt the issue? If it is the former then the question is
    answered, if however it is the later it seems hypocritical. If it
    is the later then Halacha is being bypassed(ignored?) for the sake
    of convenience.
    
    To refer to another topic in this note file, about the Law of Return,
    why don't the Orthodox amongst us just do the same for Patrilineal(sp)
    descent and non-Orthodox conversion. Change the rules(as they see
    them) for the convenience of those affected, and thereby end the
    dilemma.

    re: -1
    
    An Eruv is a halachic way of doing things. In fact there is whole
    tractate in the Talmud, a very difficult one, solely devoted to
    this topic. As .1 indicated it makes a public domain into a private
    domain.  It is not skirting an issue it is simply converting space
    that one cannot carry something in to a space where it is permissible
    to do so. As an analogy a completely open lot is generally considered
    "public", if you build a house on it this house is "private." Not
    the best analogy but I hope enought to give the flavor of what is
    going on.
    
    Matrilineal/patrilineal descent is an issue that cannot be solved
    by changing patrilineal into something that seems to be matrilineal.
    Domains can change from public to private descent does not lend
    itself to something similar.
    
    Yoseff
    

    Just by observation, Eruv also has the interesting property of defining
    the bounaries of a "ghetto", albeit one of the self-imposed sort.

.4>    Just by observation, Eruv also has the interesting property of defining
.4>    the bounaries of a "ghetto", albeit one of the self-imposed sort.

Not in Israel it doesn't.  Here they put an eruv around an entire city or
town.  The Jerusalem eruv, for example, surrounds a population of several
hundred thousand.

    I'm told that there's an eruv planned for Brookline, Brighton, AND Newton.
    That's a pretty big ghetto (and a pretty big undertaking).

    Having lived there for years, yes, it's a pretty big ghetto.
    
    (I might still live there if it were a) cheaper and b) closer to
    work, but since I am not Orthodox, the eruv is rather without value
    to me.)

The Eruv has become extremely important nowadays, since women expect
(rightfully) to attend services, which means that no one is going to
"stay home" with children too young to walk to shul. It thus has an
importance for religious Jews that goes far beyond allowing them to
carry siddurim to shul and the like. It reflects the dramatic
(if slow) changes that have redefined the role of the shul from
what it once was (a prayer house/ study house for men and older
women) to something else: the social center for a religious
community that "hangs out" most of Shabbat morning at the shul, often
with social activities afterwards (kiddush).

-Zaitch

    1.  What is an ERUV TAVSHILIN? If I remember OK it is some way of
        cooking in Yom-Tov/Shabat when they fall in contiguous days.
    
    2.  Excuse me but I do not feel we have a clear answer if ERUV is
        not a "legalish" way to bend the rule. It reminds me of the
        "Shabat elevators" some hotels and private buildings have here
        or all the special timers they put in order for a task to be
        performed automatically in Shabat without the explicit interven-
        tion of a human being: I see it as trying to be "wiser" than
        the law.
    
        By the way - in my view, there is a specific point the letter 
        of the law is bent and has become a distinctive sign of Judaism:
        The Torah specifically forbids to burn anything on Shabat and
        we are told how a trangressor (that had smoke raising from his
        tent) was killed (Sefer Shemot - Exodus, if my memory does not
        betray me), but we light candles so they burn thru the Friday
        eve and have "chulnt" boiling all friday night. 
                                                      

Juan:
>    1.  What is an ERUV TAVSHILIN? If I remember OK it is some way of
>        cooking in Yom-Tov/Shabat when they fall in contiguous days.
An Eruv Tavshilin is food for the Sabbath prepared BEFORE the onset of
a festival day that falls on Friday. This way we say that the Sabbath
meal was prepared before the festival, and whatever food was cooked on
the festival (when cooking for the festival day itself is allowed) was
NOT prepared for the Sabbath day that follows (which would not be allowed).
It is a legalism of sorts but there are various restrictions that
apply which mrender it not entirely a fiction.
    
>        By the way - in my view, there is a specific point the letter 
>        of the law is bent and has become a distinctive sign of Judaism:
>        The Torah specifically forbids to burn anything on Shabat and
>        we are told how a trangressor (that had smoke raising from his
>        tent) was killed (Sefer Shemot - Exodus, if my memory does not
>        betray me), but we light candles so they burn thru the Friday
>        eve and have "chulnt" boiling all friday night. 

You are interpreting the Biblical verse not to burn any fires on the
Sabbath say in the way that the Karaites did, whereas Rabbinic Judaism 
has ALWAYS insisted that the prohibition is LIGHTING a fire, not HAVING
ONE CONTINUE BURNING. As for the "smoke rising from his tent" I 
believe you are thinking of the man who was found gathering wood. I don't
know of any other story you could be referring to. BTW there are
various restrictions on "using" a fire that was lit before the
Sabbath, but this isn't the place to get into it. 
Ask CB!
-Zaitch

    Re: .10
       
    Abut the ERUV TAVSHILIN: it still looks as to me as a legalism on
    how to bend the law.
    
    About the kindling of fire on Shabat:
    
    I understand the problem of lighting fire and/or burning might not
    have been that critical in the old times, since even the main offering
    in Shabat and Yom Kippur was a "burnt offering" - OLAH, which was
    supposed to be slaughtered - "offered" and burnt completely on the
    altar.
    
    Yes, I am interpreting the restrictions on kindling any fire "to
    the letter", as karaites did and perhaps the saducees did. What I tryed
    to convey is that the traditional, rabinical judaism could find
    out some way to understand a limitation of the Law in such a way
    as to make it compatible with life in the moment the decision was
    made, i.e.: they were ready, within certain limits and rules, to
    make match law and life. Perhaps with a little amount of good will this
    might be used in quite a few subjects that appear between observant
    and not-so-observant jews, such as conversion, ritual, kashrut,
    etc.
    
    I wish we were wise enough to follow this tradition of flexibility
    in our own times.
    
    Juan-Carlos Kiel                          
               
    P.S.: About the "smoke" issue: I'll have to open the Tanaj more
    fequently than I do.
    JCK