Conference taveng::bagels

    In southern California there is a town called Loma Linda.  Most
    of the town's residents are Seventh Day Adventists.  They have a
    university there with a famous medical school and hospital.  If
    you may recall, a couple of years ago there was a controversial
    case there where a baboon's heart was transplanted into a child.
    
    The Seventh Day Adventists in that town appear to be complete
    vegetarians.  Many of the fast-food outlets offer "vegi-burgers."
    The supermarkets sell a lot of products made with textured soy
    protein spun to look like bacon, sausage patties and links, etc.
    
    Jews who keep kosher like to shop in the supermarkets there because
    of the interesting pareve foods.
    
    

SDAs are Christians who, unlike many other Christian denominations, feel that
much of the "Old" Testament Scriptures are applicable to Christians today.
They observe the 7-day Sabbath since it was created and hallowed at creation, 
is part of the 10 Commandments, and was observed by Jesus and the Apostles.
They feel that the other annual Sabbaths were part of the "ceremonial" law
that is no longer in effect now that Messiah (Jesus) has come.  They are
looking forward to the second coming of Christ and these two key doctrines
are how the name "Seventh-day Adventist" was chosen.  They came out of the
Millerite movement in 1844 (when a faulty interpretation of Daniel resulted
in the belief that Messiah would come on October 23, 1844) but were not
incorporated as a church body until around 1863.  Tithing is taught as the
Biblical method of supporting the work of the church, and although it is not a
test for membership, many do give 10% of their earnings. Basically what they do 
is view parts of the 613 commandments as not applying today (e.g. requirements 
dealing with the Temple, etc.) but they do refrain from eating pork, shellfish, 
etc. since there was some type of distinction between clean and unclean animals 
before the Flood.  A vegetarian diet is recommended (and about 50% of the 5 
million members are vegetarians - some do not even use milk or eggs) since 
man's original diet in the Garden of Eden was vegetarian and since they believe
there will be no killing in the "New Earth".  They are very anti-smoking and 
originated the "5-day Plan" to stop smoking.  They are also against drinking 
alcoholic beverages, and do not recommend coffee or cola drinks.  Perhaps 
because of these habits, a recent study in California has show that Adventists 
have a 6-7 year longer life expectancy than the general population with far 
lower death reates from cancer, heart disease, and strokes.  They have about 8 
colleges in this country (Atlantic Union College in So. Lancaster, Mass for 
those readers in the Maynard area), 2 universities (Loma Linda, mentioned in a 
previous reply, and Andrews University in Berrien Springs, MI) and many 
elementary and secondary schools.  The same holds true for other countries, 
giving them the largest Protestant ***perochial*** school system in the world.
Their church services, not unlike many other Christian churches, consist of
a Sabbath (instead of Sunday) School where various topics and books of the
Scriptures are studied, and the Worship service which consists of singing hymns
of praise, prayers, worship by giving an offering, and the sermon.  Incidently,
the recent Sabbath School plan instituted is to study through every book of 
the Bible, including the "Old" Testament.  The Sabbath is also observed
    from sundown on Friday night to sundown on Saturday night.

    Hi,
    
       I'm a Seventh Day Adventist and so I think maybe I can offer
       a bit on this subject.  Let may say that I was Roman Catholic
       and gradually became interested in the Lord and after some
       searching came to believe that the doctrinal position that is
       Adventism is closest to Bible truth.  I guess I'm saying that
       I didn't become an Adventist because 'ma and dad were', but
       because I really think I was open and neutral in my pursuit
       of truth.
    
       I'll say a bit here by commenting on the second reply.
            
    >SDAs are Christians who, unlike many other Christian denominations, 
     feel that
>much of the "Old" Testament Scriptures are applicable to Christians today.
>They observe the 7-day Sabbath since it was created and hallowed at creation, 
>is part of the 10 Commandments, and was observed by Jesus and the Apostles.
>They feel that the other annual Sabbaths were part of the "ceremonial" law
>that is no longer in effect now that Messiah (Jesus) has come.  
    
    Yeah, this is all true.  The belief is that the ten commandments
    are an immutable standard of righteoussness not demarcated in any
    way by time.   While our Christian brethen keep the first day because
    of hallowing the resurrection event, Adventism does not primarily
    for three reasons:
    
    One being that God in His Word never commanded the keeping of the
    first day and a second one being that the spiritual interpretation
    of the Sabbath commandment as written in Deuteronomy encompasses
    *all* that God had to do to "Create in me a clean heart O God"
    (as the Psalmist so beautifully puts it).  While the resurrection
    certainly is seen by Christians to be a blessed event, it in and
    of itself is not seen by Christendom as *alone* being sufficient
    to redeem man.  Therefore the Sabbath day commemorates all that
    God had to do while Sunday commemorates one part of what Christendom
    believes God had to do.  
    
    A third reason is that the Sabbath
    commandment, it is believed, was made known to Adam (as it was made
    before sin even entered the world).   Indeed we know that 40 years
    before Sinai, God's Chosen rested on the Sabbath.  Just as "Thou
    shalt not murder" was not mentioned in Scripture until way after
    Cain sinned (and sin is the transgression of the law) by murdering
    Abel and "Thou shalt not commit adultery" was not mentioned until
    way after Joseph knew it was wrong (when tempted by Potiphar's wife),
    it is apparent that while scripture had not yet recorded the ten
    commandments, God taught Adam and they were known from patriarch
    to patriarch.  It just makes simple sense.
      
    >They are
>looking forward to the second coming of Christ and these two key doctrines
>are how the name "Seventh-day Adventist" was chosen.  They came out of the
>Millerite movement in 1844 (when a faulty interpretation of Daniel resulted
>in the belief that Messiah would come on October 23, 1844) but were not
>incorporated as a church body until around 1863.  
    
    Here's where I disagree pretty significantly.  Adventists believe
    that the *time portion* of the seventy week prophecy in Daniel as
    understood by William Miller was correct, but that *the event* as
    understood by Miller was wrong.
    
    Let me emphasize two things here:  One, Miller was not alone.  Pockets
    of people throughout the entire world *independent of each other*
    were predicting the second coming in or around this time.  And all
    by the same Scripture.  They assessed the time location of the seventy
    weeks (understood as prophetic day = literal year = 490 years)
    and surmised that the angel did not give Daniel sufficient under-
    standing of the proclamation "Unto 2300 evenings and mornings, then
    shalt the sanctuary be cleansed."   They concluded that the angel
    gave Daniel understanding by assuming that 70 weeks (or 490 years)
    comprise the first section of the 2300 prophetic days (= literal
    years).  Know where the 70 weeks fits historically and one then
    knows where the 2300 days fits.
    
    Secondly, all of mainline Christianity at that time believed that
    the antitypical sanctuary was Earth.  Cleanse that and there must
    be no sin.  It follows that all of mainline Christianity considered
    this eventh to be in fact the second return of Christ.
    
    This is why I disagree.  The problem was not an erroneas interpretation
    of the 2300 days/70 weeks prophecy, as much as it was an *incomplete 
    understanding of the fullness of the truth*.  Much truth was learned.  
    But, not all.
    
    So 1844 came and went.  There were, as mentioned, the offshoots.
    Many became unbelievers.  Some continued to be 'datesetters.'  Another
    group simply could not believe the time element was incorrect. 
    They studied further seeing that Moses was given the sanctuary
    'after a pattern' and seeing in the New Testament books of Revelation
    and Hebrews that there is a heavenly sanctuary.  They came to believe
    that the event marked by the 2300 days was something other than
    they felt it was pre-1844.  Indeed it had to be!  Incredible truth
    unfolded.  Sanctuary truth.  Truth neglected by Christendom.  Adventism
    saw the 2300 day prophecies as marking the onset of the Christian
    Day of Atonement with Christ ministering as High Priest.
    
    Anyway, this is my emphasis.  The interpretation by Miller was 
    simply incomplete.  Yes, in that sense it was faulty.  There was
    just more to learn.  And let me say, there is more, so much more!!!!
    
                                               So Long,
                                                     
                                               Tony                     

    Thanks for all the interesting information!  I guess the adventists
    are not as similar to the other local Christian churches around
    as I thought - it is not unusual for the local Catholic churches
    to hold services on Saturday (as well as Sunday), though maybe they
    do so for people to whom a Sunday service would be a hardship somehow;
    I guess that is what I thought the adventists were doing.  Does
    anyone know if they celebrate any other Jewish holidays in ways
    that we would recognize?  I mean, do they hold Passover seders,
    fast on Yom Kippur, celebrate Purim, etc.?  I guess since we will
    be going past their assembly hall on the way to the synagogue on
    Yom Kippur, I will try to remember to look and see if the place
    seems to be occupied or not.  They definitely (at least the local
    group) drive on Shabbat: their meeting hall has a real small parking
    lot, and on Saturday morning there are cars all along the street
    in front of it (of course, I drive on Shabbat too; we belong to
    a liberal congregation).  Do they use Hebrew in their liturgy?
                                   

    
    Isn't Ken Olsen a SDA?

>>    Isn't Ken Olsen a SDA?    <<
I believe he is a Mormon, no?

    
    re: < Note 545.6 by VAXWRK::ZAITCHIK "Existence is NOT a predicate" >
                                    -< ko >-

    >>    Isn't Ken Olsen a SDA?    <<
    
    >I believe he is a Mormon, no?
    
    
    No, on both counts. There is a reprint of an article on the multi-faceted
    and highly fascinating Ken Olsen [Fortune magazine, I believe...that 
    featured KO on the cover] which also discusses his religion. While I 
    can't remember exactly what the denomination is called, it did clear 
    up the myth that he's a Mormon.
    
    In fact, someone who works with him also confirmed this to me.
                                   
    There was also a note in Christian conf. on this from someone who
    attends the same church...if there's interest, I'll look it up for
    you.
    
    Irena
    

    re:.last few
    
    Isn't it great that we _don't_ know KO's specific religion?

    RE: < Note 545.8 by DELNI::GOLDSTEIN "obviously, member of some cabal" >
                    -< official non-discriminatory company >-

    >re:.last few
    
    >Isn't it great that we _don't_ know KO's specific religion?
     
     I think if he was Jewish, we'd have periodic reminders...;-)

    
     Now, please don't flame at me, but...
        
     I light of your question, the following from another topic 
     tickled my funnybone:
     
    
            < Note 549.29 by KIRKWD::FRIEDMAN >
          
            >-Isn't Kitty Dukakis Jewish?
                                  
                                                                 
      Irena
    
     
     
    

    
	Well of course, Ken "my good friend" Olsen is Moslem (suni) to 
	be exact.  I remember seeing him during the holy month of Ramadan 
	at the local mosque here in Paramus NJ.

	....................................... 

   	Kul sena winta saalim,

        L'Shannah Tova ,

	and Have a happy New Year

	Good day,
	-Sultan

    Ken Olsen is a member of the Lutheran church. Really.