Conference taveng::bagels

	Is the Rabbi Larry Kushner any relation to Rabbi Harold Kushner
of the "When Bad Things Happen to Good People" fame?
	I am looking forward to the Celebration next Wednesday.

    Two different Kushner's.
    Larry Kushner (the rabbi for the DEC program) has written a bunch
    of books on mystical Judaism -- I think one of them is called "Rivers
    of Light" (I'm not much into mystical things, myself).  Services
    at his schul are interesting!

    I wish I could go... but it happens to be YOM TOV.  Couldn't they
    have scheduled it for Thursday (Chol ha-Mo'ed)?
    
    His coming to the workplace on Yom Tov has caused a few questions
    about my NOT working on the second day of Pesach.  I've explained
    it, but I wonder about the lack of sensitivity (knowledge) on the
    part of the organizers.
    
    ---Av

    I have sent the attached mail to the person who scheduled this program.
    I will post any response I get here.
    
    		David
    
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From:	ULTRA::OFSEVIT      "David Ofsevit..226-6743..LTN2-2/C08" 10-APR-1987 11:34
To:	NM%FDCV11::KNOPPERS,ME
Subj:	Celebrating Differences Passover program

	I have seen your notice of the program with Rabbi Larry Kushner
on April 15.  

        I don't know whether you're aware of it, but that day is the
second day of Passover, and for Orthodox and Conservative Jews it is a day
of full obligation, including not working.  Rabbi Kushner is Reform, and
for him that day does not have such significance, but I think you ought
to be aware that the scheduling of this event on that date places many Jewish
employees in an uncomfortable position.

	Frankly, I am surprised that Rabbi Kushner agreed to the date, since
he should certainly be aware of and sensitive to the position of Jews of
other branches.

	Perhaps the Valuing Difference program should have some formal way
to consult with representatives of groups before scheduling programs that
concern them.
               
		David Ofsevit
    

    I received the following response to the message posed in .4.  

    I find it hard to believe that nobody on the committee of "practicing
    Jews" figured this out.  
    
    		David
    
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From:	FDCV11::KNOPPERS     "Els Knoppers" 14-APR-1987 14:11
To:	ULTRA::OFSEVIT,KNOPPERS    
Subj:	RE: Celebrating Differences Passover program

I appreciate your concern and you raise a valid point.  We have a committee
working on this program, most of whom are practicing Jews.  In addition, we
consulted with other Jewish employees in Parker Street.  Unfortunately no one
raised the concern of celebrating on the 15th, and the event has been planned.

There were many factors to consider in selecting the date of this celebration,
including availability on the part of the rabbi, openings for the conference
room, etc.

As you may know, there have been many celebrations of difference in the 
company.  Should you be interested in having a particular program at your
facility, I suggest you contact your Personnel group, as committees to put
on these events are eager to have participation by interested employees.

						-Els Knoppers
    

    Traditional Jews who live in Israel celebrate only ONE DAY Yom Tov.
    When they are visiting outside of Israel (where all communities
    celebrate TWO DAYS) Israelis celebrate only ONE DAY ---but, they
    are not suppose to PUBLICLY desecrate the Second Day in order to
    be sensitive to the community and not create confusion among the
    non-Jews.
    
    One would hope that non-traditional Jews could be sensitive to the
    needs of their observant brethern and the confusion which the
    non-Jewish world feels.
    
    This situation is an example of the problem non-Jews have in
    understanding Judaism.  To them, a person who may go to schul a few
    times a year, light chanuka candles, or go to a seder is an expert and
    speaks for all Jews. 
    
    I certainly don't blame the non-Jews in the valuing differences program
    for the mistake... Rabbi Kushner knows that the first and last TWO days
    are Yom Tov for Traditional Jews.  I'm certain that he could have been
    available during the lunch hour next week (after Pesach) or even today. 
    If not, there are fifty-one other weeks a year that Jews are Jews
    and that valued difference can be celebrated!
    
    If you think that this is a problem, wait till Shavouth (June 3rd
    AND 4th).  I have taken Shavouth off in the past (non-DIGITAL)
    only to come back to accusations that I made up a holiday to take
    off ---since they had asked other " 'practicing' Jews" and none of
    them knew there was a holiday going on.
    
    ---Av  

    This isn't a real good excuse, I know, but I think the real thrust
    of the "valuing differences" programs is more to educate
    "non-different" people than the reverse.  It is OK with me if someone
    wants to discuss the meaning of Passover with curious Christians
    (buddhists, Taoists, animists,...) during the holiday, though it
    was an unfortuneate day to have a *rabbi* come in to do so.  MOst
    non-Jewish people are very surprised when you explain about two-day
    holidays to them; their desk calendar has "Passover" written on
    this past Tuesday, so they think that day is the whole holiday,
    and are surprised that the "holiday" part is longer than that, and
    also surprised that the celebration goes on for several more days!

    Also to note that many Reform rabbis go by the one-day yom tov rule;
    so the second Day of Pesach is not equivalent to the first.
    
    (At least, that's how it works on Rosh Hashana, which I treat as
    a one-day holiday.)

    It's not just the Rabbis that hold only one day---it's Reform practice.
    
    My issue is not with holding only one day [some of my best friends
    who have made aliyah do it :')]  My concern is the _insensitive_
    timing of the program.
    
    The idea of sharing Jewish ideas with the DIGITAL community is to
    be encouraged. Let's do it with sensitivity to all flavors of Judaism.
    
    ---Av
    

    Not ALL reform congregations follow the single-day yomtov customs;
    it depends on the congregation.  Our schul celebrates two days (of
    course, attendance is way down the second day...) -- since we are
    the only schul around here, we have people from all sorts of
    backgrounds, and so are not "classically reform".

Reply to a few ago by Avi Frydman, re: observance of the "eighth day" Pesach
in "golus" by Israelis...

Avi, we have a couple of "temporary" (one-year work assignment) Israelis
in our community and of course the issue came up (originally around
Rosh Hashanah and Sukkoth last fall).

Our Rabbi got a p'sak from the Rav.  It went like this:

	- Israelis in golus, even if for 2 days, observe like
	  golus, i. e., if some Israeli flew to USA on Chol Ha'moed,
	  say last Moetzi Shabbat (the 18th, arriving on Sunday the
	  19th), and leaving the USA, for Israel, today (the 22nd);
	  s/he would be obligated for yesterday, the 21st, as Yom Tov.

	- People from golus who are _visiting_ (only) Israel are
	  obligated as if they were in golus.

	- People who have become olim are obligated as Israelis -- as
	  of the time they become an oleh.

That's the best I remember it.

/don feinberg

    Re. 11:
    
    With referrence to the case of an Israeli who arrives Chol Hamoed
    and will be returning after the Chag, I was always under the impression
    that such a person would have to observe the Yom Tov in
    public (b'pharhessiya) but would not be obligated to do so in private
    (b'tsinna). I also believe that even in public he would not make
    any blessings (such as for Matzah etc.).
    
    Could you ask someone who is famailiar with the Rav to clarify?
    
    Cb.