[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference taveng::bagels

Title:BAGELS and other things of Jewish interest
Notice:1.0 policy, 280.0 directory, 32.0 registration
Moderator:SMURF::FENSTER
Created:Mon Feb 03 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1524
Total number of notes:18709

373.0. "Time off for High Holidays" by AKOV75::SHEPRO (Good enough for Gov't Work) Tue Sep 22 1987 15:54

    As we all know, it's that time of year again.  A time to remember
    our loved ones, our departed ones, and ourselves; a time to repent
    our sins and start a new year on a good note.
    
    We believe this to be so important that we interupt our lives for
    this.  And who understands besides us?
    
    My first computer-related position was at a Catholic College in
    Western Massachusetts.  When the High Holidays came around, the
    Nuns, who understand religion and faith said take the time off and
    Happy New Year.
    
    When I moved to the Boston area, my next employer told me the second
    part but said I can charge my "time off" to vacation, personal
    time, or time off without pay.  I was salaried.
    
    My employer before the college had the same attitude, except I was
    paid hourly.  Jokingly I told this employer, my district manager,
    DM for short, that this was not fair, but "I'll be willing to work
    on Christmas Day.  Oh!  The law won't let me."  (Mass Blue Laws say
    retail businesses will be closed on Christmas.)
    
    Here at DEC, my options are 1) Compensation for overtime, 2) Charge
    against vacation, 3) personal day, or 4) day off without pay.  I'll
    still work christmas, but that A) falls into catagory 1 and B) what
    difference will it make?  As part of a team, who else will be here?
    
    There are some who take off for EVERY holiday and those (I'm in
    this group) who only take off for the HHDs.  Would it be unreasonable
    to grant time off with no penalty for religious reasons for the 3 HHDs
    only?  For all Holidays?  Cast your vote and comments here.
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
373.1L'shana tovah!IAGO::SCHOELLERCaught in an information firestormTue Sep 22 1987 16:5740
    Shalom Alan and the rest of Bagelers,

    I will take this as my opportunity to wish everybody a healthy and happy
    new year and an easy fast, before replying to the base note.

    L'shanah tovah, t'koteivu!!

    I think that we can all appreciate an employers position about getting
    the time for the dollars.  From the employers' point of view, why
    should we get extra time.  However, if asked, we most of us would have
    no objectioin to making up for it.

>    Here at DEC, my options are 1) Compensation for overtime, 2) Charge
>    against vacation, 3) personal day, or 4) day off without pay.  I'll
>    still work christmas, but that A) falls into catagory 1 and B) what
>    difference will it make?  As part of a team, who else will be here?

    Actually here at DEC, at least for salaried employees, our options are
    very much at the discretion of our immediate management.  Many of us
    operate in a typical DEC workaholic mode and have management who will
    look the other way if we take off the High Holidays (maybe even
    Pesach?) and just assume that the time will be made up in the usual 12-16
    hour days worked around this place.  This is not universal but it
    certainly is common.  I would expect that Christians who wish to take off
    those holidays which are less commonly observed (and therefore without
    matching secular holiday   8^{)  ) would get the same treatment.

    Those who are hourly are put in a more difficult position.  Clerical
    staff and the like are critical to many operations and their days off
    are hard felt.  Under these circumstances many managers usually insist
    on filing all the appropriate paper work (they frequently have to find a
    temporary to cover).  Hourly employees frequently do not have the option
    of working comp. time.

    I would suggest that DECs policy on this topic should be that some small
    fixed number (3-5?) of days be standardly allowed for religious holidays
    without penalty to your vacation time.  Of course with the DECs usually

    Od paam, l'shanah tovah!!
    Gavriel
373.2Make choices based on YOUR prioritiesREGENT::LUWISHTue Sep 22 1987 17:1344
    One of the basic rules of job hunting is "Pick your manager carefully".
    Since at DEC, the disposition of time-off is a matter of agreement
    between employee and manager, it is important to sound your manager
    out, at the time of the interview, concerning matters of importance
    to you.  How your boss regards absence for the High Holydays was
    obviously not of a high-enough priority to you to be one of your
    questions during the hiring interview, so don't complain about how
    things turned out.  It WAS important enough to me, so I asked, got
    the answer I liked, and took the job.
    
    If, on the other hand, you would like to make a change in company
    policy, please consider that there are levels of observance of Judaism.
    I would not want two (or three) days off per year in lieu of "whatever
    arrangement you make with your manager" if I want to take the eighth
    day of Pesach off, or want to leave early on Fridays as the days
    shorten.  That's the usual result when you transform an informal
    agreement into written policy -- you win some, you lose some.
    
    How can you monitor which employees are entitled to take which days
    off for religious reasons?  I'm not sure I like the idea (and I'm
    not sure it's legal) of registering my religion with Personnel.
    And if you want to give, say, ten days to every employee to use
    for the religious holidays of their choice, most would undoubtedly
    invent a new religion that requires oceanside observances during
    July and solemn rituals on the ski slopes.
    
    The bottom line is the priority that Judaism takes in your life.
    If it means a lot to you, it should influence your career choices.
    And if you can't find a livelihood that fits comfortably with our
    observances, than take vacation days or days without pay, or whatever
    costs are necessary in order to reap the joys of a Jewish life.
    Examine your priorities carefully and make whatever choices are
    consistent with them.  What better occasion is there than The Days
    Of Awe for making such a self-examination?  If, as I believe it
    is, living Jewishly is important to you, then you will take the
    right steps to organize your life and career around it.  That's
    what I am doing, over time.  And what a wonderful year 5748 will
    be, because of the progress I am making in returning to my People.
    
    L'Shana Tova
    
    Ed
    
    
373.3I conceed to the status quoIAGO::SCHOELLERCaught in an information firestormTue Sep 22 1987 18:1414
    Ed,

    As to the company policy suggestion, the more I think about it the more
    I realize that the status quo is probably better.  I am not one of those
    people who is in a bind.  As I said, I tend to be a workaholic on the
    other days anyway.  So, nobody much cares if I take off on the holidays.

    As to the choice of jobs thing, for some people that kind of choice
    can mean a major career change.  I am not suggesting that this should
    not be considered.  I was just explaining what you can expect at DEC
    (and many other places as well) if you are an hourly employee with
    religious convictions.

    Gavriel
373.4GreetingsBAGELS::FROLICHBobWed Sep 23 1987 14:386
To all of you who read this notesfile....and for all of you who don't,

"L'Shanah Tova Tichatayvu v'tichatemu".  May you be 
inscribed and sealed for a Good Year.

Bob