Conference taveng::bagels

    The dates for this year's holidays are:
    
    	Rosh Hashana      Sept 12 and 13
    	Yom Kippur        Sept 21
        SUkkot            Sept 26 and 27
        Simchat Torah     Oct 3
        Shimini Atzeret   Oct 4
    
    All of these begin the night before.
    

.1>        Simchat Torah     Oct 3
.1>        Shimini Atzeret   Oct 4

I believe that it is Shmini Atzeret that is on October 3 and Simchat Torah
on the 4th, except in Israel, where both are on the 3rd.

.1>                      -< There go seven vacation days!! >-

... unless you live in Israel, where all of them are public holidays and
you get them for free.

    You are correct---Since we do hakoffot both days in our shul, it
    seems like both are Simchat Torah. 
    
    Re: Israeli DEC holidays----- seems like another good reason to
    make aliyah.  Don't you only have 1/2 days on Friday?
    
    ---Av
     
    
    

    Regarding vacation days for holidays. Check with your manager, since
    these are the kinds of things that are at the managers discretion.
    For example, if you travel for DEC and do some traveling on weekends
    your manager might decide that he/she can give you some days as
    comp time. There is no official DEC policy regarding this, so if
    one manager goes for it and another one does not that decision is
    pretty much final. Anyway its worth a shot talking with your manager
    about it.
    
    yoseff
    

.3>    Re: Israeli DEC holidays----- seems like another good reason to
.3>    make aliyah.  Don't you only have 1/2 days on Friday?

The traditional Israeli work week is 6 days (Sunday-Friday), with employees
getting off early on Friday.  Digital, like many other employers, has a
5-day work week (Sunday-Thursday) with slightly longer hours on each day.

re: < Note 521.4 by COGMK::FRANCUS "In Xanadu did Kubla Khan" >

	Besides agreeing with Yoseff completely, let me add one personal
	note for your future - you *should* ask for Jewish holidays off
	gratis (or at least a formal way of working them off) as a job
	pre-condition, if you are able to. Yes, it depends on your level,
	but if you're even a middle-level employee (as opposed to entry or
	senior), you should be able to get one or the other. Personally,
	I have *never* had a job where I could not either get the days off
	or have an alternative.

eric

p.s. next year, Rosh Hashanah, Sukkot, Sh'mini Atzeret and Simhat Torah are
on the weekend - and *if* we had Columbus Day off, that's when Yom Kippur is!

In the "Policy and Procedures" book (DEC's bible), it specifically 
states in Section 4.01, page 2:

    "Employees who wish to celebrate religious holidays not covered
     by the Company holiday schedule are expected to do so by using
     either personal holiday or vacation."

If you can get around this before-hand, all the more power to you.  
Unfortunately, exceptions always make it harder for those who adhere to 
the policy.

Regards,
Joan

    Re: .7

    Shalom,

    That is indeed the company policy.  However, for many WC4
    employees, hours are more flexible than policies and procedures.
    If I never worked a 60 hour week, none of my projects would
    finish on time (on time is defined as when results are needed,
    not when they can reasonably be expected).  In return for this,
    many managers are flexible regarding time off for religious
    holidays.  For obvious reasons, this flexibility does not
    generally apply to WC2 employees.

    I think there was a discussion of this topic earlier, but I couldn't
    find it.

    Gavriel

    re: .8
    
    Yes, like the chagim, this issue returns in this notefile every
    year.  It most definitely has been discussed in an earlier note,
    and (personal opinion) rehashing it won't settle anything.
    
    David

    With all the discussion past and present is their really anyone
    who suffers from a manager who will actually employ the Orange
    Book Policy. (Which really in a way contradicts Digital's policy
    of Valuing Differences)
    
    As a manager I have used the my own judgement to determine what
    I would do in situations like this as well as others. I personally
    find an employee more productive if I understand what make their
    reward system tick as opposed to playing by the book.
    

    Yes, in my present position, I must put in a blue card for each Jewish
    Holiday which I take. (and I take them all.) 
    
    However, I am allowed to leave early enough in winter on Friday
    afternoon to get home in time for Shabbas (with no penalty).
    
    ---Av 

    .last
    
    Av, I wonder how your manager feels about at least the High Holidays
    as opposed to ALL of the holidays. Would he allow you the benefit
    of atleast these to help out.

    I am in a very visible position in our organization and work for
    a manager who manages by example.
    
    Since I am in on time, rarely take lunches away from my office, and
    often stay late, "people" will understand about my needing to leave a
    couple hours early on friday.  "People" might take offense at someone
    getting 3 extra vacation days (RH and YK). [Please be aware that
    when you do not hand in blue cards, "people" know. Especially "people"
    who are required to hand in cards for each of their vacation days.] 
    
    I am not offended by this policy.  It is one of the consequences
    of having chosen to live as an observant Jew.
    
    I'm happy that I have over 5 years of service so that I get 15
    vacation days plus one personal day this coming year. That means that I
    will have 3-4 days that are non-yom tovim to use as vacation.  Since
    my children go to day schools that do NOT give off Labor day, X-mas,
    Patriots' day , or Memorial day , etc., those are not family vacation
    days for us. 
    
    In previous jobs within DEC, my managers have often not requested
    blue cards or have torn them up when I handed them in.  
    
    I doubt that I am the only one in DEC who has to follow the Orange
    Book policy.
    
    ---Av

    
    

    I think this whole issue depends on who and how you and your boss
    get along.  My boss is a terrific guy (who happens to be jewish,
    though non-observant), and whenever the holidays come around, I
    ask him what to do with my time card...he has never yet told me
    to take vacation time for the holidays...this may change, but it
    hasn't in the past two years, and I don't expect that it will.
    
    Jill
    
    PS - I'm a WC2!

    
    Yes it is true this issue is very manager dependent.  My old manager
    (who is Jewish) used to ask for a time card for the 2nd day of Rosh
    Hashonah (she always worked on the 2nd day) but nothing else.  My
    current manager (who isn't Jewish) asks for a vacation card for
    all 3 days.
    
    C'est la vie!
    
    Fredda

    My manager actually mentioned that she might be able to work something
    out and I didn't even really ask about it. I was given 4 days as
    comp time, but then again on any given day I could be anyplace DEC
    does business, at least the US,Europe,Asia. But it was still nice
    that I was given those days since its not something that she had
    to do.
    
    I made leaving Friday in the winter as a precondition before I came
    to DEC and again had no problem with it.
    
    yoseff
    

	I really didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest...

	One day, maybe, DEC will be more enlightened, like a few companies I
	know - Data Resources in Lexington used to give all religious holidays
	off gratis *as a matter of company policy*.

	Sometimes, it isn't such a burden to use vacation (e.g. 1989). Sometimes
	it is (e.g. 1990 - 12 days during the week - and I only have 10 vacation
	days!).

	Actually, this year will be interesting...I'll be observing Yom Kippur
	up here by myself, rather than join the clan in NY, like I always do...
	how could they refuse me - my shul's a 5 minute walk from my house!

--eric--

    
    I hope that you all don't take the following as facetious, but in my 
    opinion these are the only ways you will avoid the "high holiday 
    vacation time problem":
            
    1) Try to internationally relocate to DEC in Israel.  Lots of luck on 
    this option, unless you're someone who has personally authored a new 
    operating system or rewrote all of the myriad versions of UNIX or you 
    are the most sought after individual in the semiconductor development 
    world.  In other words the domestic "brain pool" is more than adequate 
    to handle any job openings, especially for a company like DEC.
            
    2) Make aliya and try to get a job with another company in Israel.
    Well aliya is enough of a trauma, and how good does the other company
    match up against DEC?  Also my comment in #1 should also apply to other 
    companies.
    
    3) Make aliya and change professions.  Ok, who's for stress at it's 
    maximum levels?  I did once and lost all my hair, no telling what'd 
    happen to you.
    
    4) Make aliya and join a moshav.  If this looks more attractive than 
    all of the above, then I'd suggest looking into the industrial moshavim 
    which can utilize people in the techie or techie-like professions.  For
    more information you'll be forced to make initial contact with a 
    shaliach (emissary) of the Jewish Agency, but after that contact 
    someone on one in Israel because the shlichim usually aren't the right 
    people to talk to when dealing in reality.
    
    5) Make aliya and join a kibbutz.  It's going to be a hard fall down 
    from those lofty idealistic heights if your into this option.  What I 
    can say in the positive vein about kibbutzim is that your child is 
    guaranteed a good education that isn't dependent on what community you 
    live in.
    
    6) Make aliya and become an entrepreneur.  If you have a good idea, 
    initial capital for investment and baksheesh, then you could be 
    embarking on the last frontier of pioneerism in Israel, e.g. the Tefen 
    industrial park in the western Galil started by Stef Wertheimer of 
    Iscar.  (I'll be writing a separate note on this in the near future in 
    BAGELS).
    
    7) Become an entrepreneur here in the Galut.  Same applies for capital 
    and good ideas, however the tradition of proteksia isn't as strong 
    outside the Levant.  The advantages are that you can close your 
    business on our holidays, and besides the politics are yours!
   
    
    8) Become a free-lancer.  Well some of the criteria for entreprenurship 
    apply here, except for heavy capital investment.  Some amount of 
    courage and self-confidence and contacts will be necessary.
    
    9) Become a contractor.  Well I did this for two years prior to coming 
    to DEC.  It's ok for those without familial obligations and who don't 
    dread that "will I be here on Monday?" feeling.  In respect to the 
    holidays the company at which you are working may miss you for a few 
    days, but then they'll be saving themselves the fees to your 
    contracting agency.
    
    10)	Work for an Orthodox Jewish manager.  Ayn bayah, you're home free!
    But how many Orthodox Jewish managers are there in DEC!?  (anybody have 
    the figures?  I mean chutz l'aretz of course)
    
    11)	Work for a Jewish manager.  If he/she is not so traditional, 
    he/she will probably want you to comp the time.  But what if he/she is 
    one of those "messianic Jews"?
    
    12)	Work for a manager who believes in "truth, justice, the American 
    way, and valuing differences".
    
    13)	Comply with the present P&P.