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Conference tallis::celt

Title:Celt Notefile
Moderator:TALLIS::DARCY
Created:Wed Feb 19 1986
Last Modified:Tue Jun 03 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1632
Total number of notes:20523

1055.0. "HMG Official Gaelic Note" by TALLIS::DARCY () Mon May 11 1992 20:14

    On the news yesterday was Bonnie Prince Charles somewhere
    off the coast in Scotland digging praties with the local islanders
    in an effort to bring attention to the Gaelic language.
    
    Apparently, he likes listening to Gaelic - he said it sounds
    very old and resounds with history [my feable attempt to capture
    hiw words].
    
    Craig, did you see this?  What did you think?
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1055.1Huh?BERN02::BYRNETue May 12 1992 05:592
    If it weren't for bonnie Prince Charlies ancestors Gaelic wouldn't be
    part of history - it would be a living, everyday language!!!
1055.2Prince Charles and Sean-nos SingingMACNAS::TJOYCETue May 12 1992 14:0718
    
    I saw a bit of this and tried to switch channels but was outvoted by
    my reactionary family - in-laws were visiting, you see.
    
    It was quite amusing to see BPC listening to sean-no's singing,
    I hope it contained a few curses at the Sassenachs. 
    
    On the other hand, there's no point in treating the man with
    some sort of inverted snobbery. If he's got a liking for Gaelic
    in his heart, then it is good to see him being able to 
    express it. And it can only help the language itself - who 
    says it should be the preserve of people in one political
    tradition only? I know of two members of the Northern Ireland
    Unionist party who have started to learn Irish. 
    
    Toby
    
    Toby
1055.3MAJORS::COCKBURNCraig CockburnWed May 20 1992 14:2221
>                      <<< Note 1055.0 by TALLIS::DARCY >>>
>                         -< HMG Official Gaelic Note >-

>   Craig, did you see this?  What did you think?

Yep, I saw the programme. Unfortunately I didn't see this note until
today as I stopped reading this conference when the IRA/UDF etc 
discussions got even more heated than usual.

I thought the programme was great - it's excellent to see support
for the language from the future King. Hopefully we'll see Prince
Charles at the big ceilidh in London in September (the BBC are
broadcasting it)

Programmes like this do a lot to help the cause for official legal
status for Gaelic, as well as promoting the excellent band Capercaillie.
Let's have more of them!

Are you watching the Gaelic on BBC2 on Tue/Thur mornings?

Craig
1055.4Scuse us, ma'm: did you find a machinegun in yer garden?WREATH::DROTTERWed May 20 1992 18:2815
    re: .3
    
    
    <...as I stopped reading this conference when the IRA/UDF etc
    <discussions got even more heated than usual.
    
    
    Yo, Craig: I see where a regiment of Scots "terrorists" (well, after
    all, they are in the Brit Army, aren't they?! And, they're not in their
    own country, they're in IRELAND) lost a machine gun to the locals
    the other day. Can ya tell me - did they ever find it again?!!! ;^>
    Tsk, tsk, tsk.
    
    Wow, a machine gun. That could ruin their whole day.
    
1055.5Egg on the face of the Paras.MACNAS::JDOOLEYDo not take anything for grantedThu May 21 1992 08:4117
    According to the papers it was the same regiment that responsible for
    the Bloody Sunday massacre in Derry. They got upset when one of their
    number had his legs blown off in a bombing and went on the rampage in
    the mainly nationalist town of Coalisland. In the ensuing riot a
    general purpose machine gun, coveted by the IRA for its fire power was 
    snatched from one of the paratroopers and another had to fire shots to
    get away from a mob intent on getting at him.
    
    Down south the Govt. are screaming bloody murder and calling for the
    immediate withdrawal of the regiment from NI. Their record in the
    province is described as "deplorable". Austin Currie T.D ( from
    Coalisland himself and formerly an M.P in the area but now a T.D for
    Fine Gael in Dublin West) has described the paratroop regiment as a
    recruiting officer for the IRA.
    
    They have now been taken out of the town until things quiten down.
    
1055.6?MACNAS::TJOYCEThu May 21 1992 12:498
    
    What's this got to do with Prince Charles and the Gaelic language?
    
    Want to start a separate note on this topic?
    
    Puzzled,
    
    Toby
1055.7Insular imaginations.....BRUMMY::BIRGP1::LONERGAN&quot;Out through the window&quot;Tue May 26 1992 15:5512
1055.8Destroy the language, the *key* to cultural identity.WREATH::DROTTERThu Jul 16 1992 15:02115
     Awhile back, I mentioned the word "vetting" - in reference to one
various forms of hidden discrimination that HMG practices on the nationalists
in the north of Ireland. Someone sent me mail, asking me to explain what I
meant by that term, and could I give an example of said use of "vetting" by
HMG to discriminate against the nationalists.

    Basically, vetting is the refusal by the state to give grant money
to community, volunteer, cultural, or social groups that are elligible for
this form of monetary assistance from the government. As a rule of thumb in NI,
if it's a Nationalist group, then it's denied funding. Because as we all know,
all nationalist groups are *subversive.*

    Well, since this is the "HMG Official Gaelic Note", and since one of the
worst cases of vetting by HMG to discriminate against the Nationalists
was their effort against the Irish language group, Glor na Gael, I thought this
to be a good place to write this note. Of course, the use of vetting to torment
and supress the nationalist community is more widespread and deeper than just
HMG trying to destroy an Irish language group.

But then again, to destroy a race's language is the first step toward
assimilation. And we know that teaching the Irish language to Irish
    Nationalist kids is a *subversive* activity. Wot ho, God forbid they
    should learn about their own culture and language. Note 1055.1 really
    hit the mark with the comment: 
    
    " If it weren't for bonnie Prince Charlies ancestors Gaelic wouldn't 
    be part of history - it would be a living, everyday language!!!"
    
    Right on!


                        Political Vetting in Ireland
                   from the "Doors of Hope" Newsletter 4/92

   The following are excerpts from a report on political vetting after a
conference held in April of 1990 which was organized by various community groups
in the north of Ireland. It was held at Queens University in Belfast, sponsored
by such presitious groups as: Northern Ireland Council for Voluntary Action
and Community Workers Co-op. Other groups involved were Committee for the
Administration of Justice, and Centre for Documentation. All local groups were
invited to attend and to submit articles on their experiences on this topic.

                                The Background.

   The political vetting in August, 1990 of the respected Irish language
umbrella group, Glor na Gael, serves as a timely reminder of the pervasive
nature and scope of the state's political vetting of community work in NI.
Although it is probably fair to say that such State vetting has always taken
place, in the past it would have come under the heading of State political
and/or religious discrimination. The current form of such vetting is, in many
ways, much more subtle.

   In the past, whole minority social groups were treated as subversive,
stereotyped as such, and denied equality of opportunity in housing, jobs,
and services. While such discrimnation undoubtedly still exists, in recent
years the trend has been away from  labelling mass populations or social
groupings as subversive and towards a more specific approach. In other
words, nowadays the State is more discriminatory against whom it discriminates,
and in its approach to potential treats to its power and control within local
communities.

   The current form of political vetting of local communities and the
organizations and groups which represent them, causing most concern, is that
initiated by Douglas Hurd, then Sec. of State for NI, in June of 1985. According
to this policy, community groups which are alleged by the State to have some
association with paramilitary groups are denied access to public funds and are
blacklisted.

   The fact that groups can be labelled and blacklisted without any specific
allegations having been brought by the State, with no evidence having to be
presented and with no form of redress being available to groups so affected
goes against all the tenents of justice. In Northern Ireland, this political
vetting affects not only funding and thus the activities of the particular
groups vetted, it also has the potential for leaving anyone associated with the
vetted group exposed to the threat of political assassination. This leads to
community/volunteer groups altering their legitimate activities and refusing to
get involved in actions which could lead to an improvement in the quality of
life for their communities. Simply because they are afraid that these actions
may give the government encouragement to vet them. As a result, political
vetting is like a cancer eating away at any genuine attempts by local
communities to identify and address their local needs.  

   In Mr. Hurd's statement to Parliament in June, 1985, he said:

       "From information available to me, there are cases in which some
        community groups, or persons prominent in the direction or management
        of some community groups, have sufficiently close links with
        paramilitary organisations, to give rise to a grave risk that
        to give support to those groups would have the effect of improving
        the standing and furthering the aims of a paramilitary organisation,
        whether directly or indirectly. I do not consider that any use of
        government funds would be in the public interest, and in any
        particular case in which I am satisfied that these conditions
        prevail, no grant shall be paid."

   This decision was immediately followed by withdrawal of funds to Conway
Mill Enterprises; Conway Education Centre; La (an Irish language newspaper
that was forced to move from the Conway Mill before funding was restored);
Shantallow Tenants Assoc. (Derry); Dove House (Derry); Naiscoil Mhic Airt
(Belfast); Twinbrook Tenants Assoc. (Belfast); Glencairn Community Assoc.
(Belfast). Many other groups were added to the list.

   Charges that are made in the above statement are so vague that it would
never hold up in any court. Unfortunately, in the British system, there was no
right to appeal once the decision was handed down. After six years of British
blacklisting one group after the other, Glor na Gael, an Irish language group in
Belfast, took the government to court in an attempt to reverse this decision.
All other groups are supporting them in this effort as their victory would be
significant for all others who will follow suit.
                               [End of article]

   As I understand it, the case is still pending. Does anyone know if this
case has been adjudicated yet? Not that it matters, I mean, the outcome is
obvious isn't it? A minority case in a British backed, racist, apartheid,
sectarian state. Figure it out for yerself.
1055.9Glor na GaelTALLIS::DARCYThu Jul 16 1992 15:2210
    The decision to remove funding from Glor na Gael was completely
    unfounded.  The group had no links with any paramilitary organizations.
    It was simply an Irish language group.  In order to get funds to
    continue operating the Irish language schools, women and men have
    now taken to the streets in Belfast and Dublin for donations.  In
    fact, I will print their address here if anyone is interested in
    making a small donation for a worthy cause.
    
    Slan,
    George
1055.10DELNI::CULBERTFree Michael CulbertThu Jul 16 1992 15:254
    
    I'd like the address George. 
    
    paddy
1055.11BAHTAT::LECTER::SUMMERFIELDDon't say 'Monkey'Thu Jul 16 1992 15:2726
1055.12.11 refers to .8BAHTAT::LECTER::SUMMERFIELDDon't say 'Monkey'Thu Jul 16 1992 15:291
    
1055.13EPIK::HOLOHANThu Jul 16 1992 16:033
  I too would like the address George.
   mark
1055.14RUTILE::AUNGIERThu Jul 16 1992 17:033
1055.15BONKIN::BOYLEThu Jul 16 1992 23:257
    The government of the Republic should fund groups like Glar na Gael in
    NI. This would show that the Republic is serious about it's commitment
    to the people of NI and it's commitment to the Irish language. It would
    also show the English govt. that no one believes it's excuses for
    withdrawing funding.
    
    Tony.
1055.16Govt. is broke.MACNAS::JDOOLEYDo not take anything for grantedFri Jul 17 1992 07:4913