Conference pamsrc::objectbroker

I did not think it was allowed to post job opportunities for external
companies in Digital notes files?

from HR006-54: PROPER USE OF DIGITAL COMPUTERS, SYSTEMS AND NETWORKS

I would have though it violated:-

o Solicitation of any kind
o Any use that would create a potential conflict of
                     interest for the employee, see Policy HR006-06,
                     Conflicts of Interest


can someone please confirm .0 is allowed?

Bob

This is not a Digital notes file anymore. This is a BEA-Digital notes file 
being accessed by both companies and residing on a BEA Systems computer.

As long as you are connected to the easynet you bide by DIGITAL rules!

it may be a "BEA-Digital notes file 
being accessed by both companies and residing on a BEA Systems computer."

but it's connected to DIGITAL's network.


Bob

> As long as you are connected to the easynet you bide by DIGITAL rules!

	Bob, you forgot the smily faces! :-)

	Next you're going to be saying that because Digital is connected
	to the global Internet, and USENET, that everyone using the
	Internet must bide by Digital rules :-)

	I guess you don't realize that non-Digital jobs are allowed and
	posted in the JOBS notesfile, or that non-Digital job notices are
	being posted to USENET newsgroups which are carried inside Digital.

	In any case, complaining here, even if you are in the right
	(though w/out being privy to the agreement between the two
	companies you really don't know), is not going to change much.
	I suggest if you are not interested in the jobs, then don't
	apply.  But if you are, please let me refer you, and I'll
	split the referal bonus with you :-)

    I would have thought the issue was clear and some courtesy would be
    displayed to your partners.
    
    Digital has ongoing development efforts for value-added middleware product
    etc. Our ability to deliver to current plans could be seriously eroded by 
    a concerted poaching effort. The BEA/Digital partnership is not the
    only part of Digital's distributed product, or indeed service, offerings.
    
    Any criticism of the handling of this relationship seems to be met with
    the teflon frypan mentality. Nothing sticks and you end up with a lump
    on your head at the end.
    
    After all, a partnership goes two ways. I've yet to see some courtesy
    extended the other way.
    
    - John

Hi,

I think the criticism of the job postings is unwarranted. 

Whatever that policy says it is now plainly overtaken by events and
needs to be re-visited. We now have BEA, EDS, Oracle, etc., employees
roaming the "Easynet". Maintaining network links to those organizations
is obviously beneficial to all concerned, it has also presumably been 
approved by CCS. 

However the security and Business implications of this don't appear to
have been thought through yet.

M 

    re: .5
    
    I'd hardly say any poaching is going on.  Posting some openings whether
    for Digital positions or BEA positions presumably only helps both
    parties as we have a vested interest in seeing each other succeed.
    
    As to "criticism of handling of this relationship", I'm not sure what
    you are specifically referring to, but do remember that those of us at
    BEA had little (make that no) choice in becoming BEA employees.  If
    there are problems with the relationship, it is certainly in all
    parties best interests to get them worked out.  Making oblique
    references doesn't do that.
    
    -tl
    

RE .6 

"I think the criticism of the job postings is unwarranted. 

Whatever that policy says it is now plainly overtaken by events and
needs to be re-visited. We now have BEA, EDS, Oracle, etc., employees
roaming the "Easynet".

Hm..so you admit I may be correct in the current DIGITAL positioning?, and .0
violates the rules as they stand?

So the policy should be changed. The let's ignore the rules they are out 
of date attitude does not help the corporation. 


I am certainly in favour of making sure our partners have the correct level of 
access to our information and the same applies the other way. Can we roam the 
BEA,EDS, Oracle networks? Please provide me a pointer other than the public
www pages and the odd notes gateway.

BEA job postings are available for all to see on the BEA www pages. 


re .7    "I'd hardly say any poaching is going on."

So why bother put the announcement here? If they did not think it was going to 
attract attention then there would be no point adding it.


RE "    As to "criticism of handling of this relationship""

check notes 5141 in the Digital conference and 2775 in the DECmessageQ notes 
file. 

    "if there are problems with the relationship, it is certainly in all
    parties best interests to get them worked out."

The problems are not related to engineering. But to the total lack of thought
given to digitals existing customer relationships and the NSIS relationship as
var,service,training, and consulting delivery of these products. The view so 
far is the 'partnership' is not happening in this area. 


The above is a classic example of pitfalls that occur when we have third 
parties roaming our network. How can we have DIGITAL discussions regarding this
relationship without the effected party seeing them? restricted conferences? 
DIGITAL is now a key customer of these products. I would love to have access to
my customers network to see what is going on.


hope this helps a little,

Bob (Like my Murphys, i'm not.......)

    Note 1393.8 by BEAVER::MCKEATING
    
    As recent history has shown (the DCU Board of Directors elections a few
    years ago), policies really are merely guidelines to be interpreted as
    management wishes!
    
    Ken....

    
> The above is a classic example of pitfalls that occur when we have third 
> parties roaming our network. How can we have DIGITAL discussions regarding this
> relationship without the effected party seeing them? restricted conferences? 
> DIGITAL is now a key customer of these products. I would love to have access to
> my customers network to see what is going on.

    No one from BEA is roaming the network. All of us have explicit
    instructions to not access any notes conference, any vtx servers, any
    internal web pages, any internal mailing lists, and any other place
    with Digital internal information. We use the network for mail and 
    getting out to the internet.
    
    As soon as our network line is put into ZKO, we will be off the
    Digital network.

> I am certainly in favour of making sure our partners have the correct level of
> access to our information and the same applies the other way. Can we roam the 
> BEA,EDS, Oracle networks? Please provide me a pointer other than the public
> www pages and the odd notes gateway.

	The contract between Digital and BEA grants to BEA employees access
	to Digital's network as long as BEA leases space to us.  It does not
	grant to Digital employees access to BEA's network (btw, we don't
	even have access to BEA's internal network yet so we don't have
	anything you don't have :-).  Here's the section of the contract
	that grants that:

   "10.5.     SHARED EQUIPMENT AND FACILITIES.  If Digital sublets or otherwise
              provides office space to any Transferred Employees pursuant to
              Section 10.3 of this Agreement, such Transferred Employees shall
              have full access to the computing resources (E.G., hardware,
              software, network privileges, and communications) which were used
              by such employees while employed by Digital in connection with
              their duties involving the Middleware Assets.  Such access to
              computing resources shall be provided without further charge to
              BEA.  The parties agree to cooperate promptly to resolve any
              security or confidentiality concerns which may arise as a result
              of the sharing of computing resources contemplated in this
              Section 10.5, provided that any such
              solutions shall be designed to ensure that the Transferred
              Employees shall be able to perform their jobs effectively,
              efficiently, and without undue delay."

	BTW, you do realize that by reading this notesfile that you are
	indeed roaming through BEA's network as Maryann said in .2.

> BEA job postings are available for all to see on the BEA www pages. 
> re .7    "I'd hardly say any poaching is going on."
> So why bother put the announcement here? If they did not think it was going to
> attract attention then there would be no point adding it.

	You've been using the WWW to view non-Digital job postings!?  Tsk tsk.

	But seriously, is there really much difference between posting
	the URL for the job postings on the BEA Web server, vs. posting
	the web page(s) the URL points to?

> The above is a classic example of pitfalls that occur when we have third
> parties roaming our network.

	????  I don't see the example, because as Peter said, we are
	not "roaming" the Digital network and posting our job openings
	in Digital notesfiles.  It was only posted in BEA notesfiles,
	which you have choosen to roam.  If a BEA employee had posted
	the job notices in a Digital notesfile (such as the JOBS notesfile)
	then you may have a point, depending on the contract between
	Digital and BEA (which is included as one of the document attachments
	in BEA's SB-2 SEC submission before going public, which you can
	find from the SEC web site (assuming Digital allows you to roam
	the Internet :-).

	Searching for "solicit" within the Digital/BEA contract, I only
	found two occurances.  From my interpretation of these sections
	(and assuming another part of the agreement contradicts or modifies
	the following sections), BEA only agreed to not solicit Digital
	employees who work on Middleware until the closing date of the
	sale, which I believe occurred March 26th.  Digital on the other
	hand can't solicit us, so you better not post any Digital job
	notices in here :-).  If you read the contract differently (contracts
	can often be interpreted in more than one way, else we'd never
	have had the TV series "Paper Chase" :-) let me know.  Otherwise,
	my offer still stand, let me be the one to refer you for one of
	the job openings in .0, and I'll split the referal bonus with you!

   "10.7.     NON-SOLICITATION.  BEA shall not hire or attempt to hire any
              Digital employees who work on the Middleware Assets in the United
              States prior to the Closing Date without the written consent of
              Digital.  Digital agrees not to re-hire or directly or indirectly
              attempt to re-hire, for a period of 12 months from the Closing
              Date, any of the Terminated Employees."

"9.   BEA EMPLOYEES

    BEA reserves the right to determine the assignment of BEA employees.
    Digital agrees, during the period of the services and for one year
    thereafter, not to directly or indirectly solicit any BEA employee
    providing those services for employment by Digital."

    re: .8
    
    Gimme a break.  The original comment said "concerted poaching effort". 
    Posting a listing of job opportunities for engineering resources that
    will help build a product that both Digital and BEA will sell and
    profit from is hardly a "concerted poaching effort" or particularly
    detrimental to any parties involved.  Would you prefer people to leave
    Digital and go to a competitor?
    
    -tl