Conference school::sports_memorabilia

	Bill

	You must be reading Mike Kelly's Notes again.... 8^)

	I couldn't pass that one up Mike...

    I don't subscribe to Beckett's, but whenever I do consult their monthly
    pub, my feeling is that their high figure is usually higher than the
    prices in SCD or Tuff Stuff.  Does Beckett still maintain that the high
    and low figures represent a range for mint cards?  If so, I think
    that's bogus, because even with the billions being produced these days,
    true mint cards (flawless and well-centered) are rare as hen's teeth.
    Thats why I prefer the Tuff Stuff and SCD figures for VG and Near Mint
    - much more realistic.  Anyway, when I really want to know what an item
    is "worth," I check a variety of buy and sell ads in these pubs. Except
    for something hot, like a ryan rookie, the sell ads are usually under
    the guide prices, and it would be nice if our sales here were even
    lower.  As Roy said, though, nobody's being forced into these
    transactions (and as promised, he didn't laugh at my way-under-book
    offer for one of his items).  Still, I hope we can find bargains in
    here, and next week I'll test my theories by putting in some for-sale
    items that you pennypinchers won't be able to refuse.

    
      One thing that I think the base noter and others are forgeting to
    mention is the fact that the high and low prices in Becketts is for
    NrMnt cards and is a sample of selling prices across the nation.
      We happen to be in an area where the hobby is high priced. Possible
    reasons for this are that we live near an area of baseball and another
    is that we are in one of the high priced areas of the country. If you
    want low prices try West Virginia or some small town in Kansas, here
    where the hobby is hot expect to pay more. Simple logic really....
    moer collectors....more demand...higher prices.
      Another thing...I don't sell..I collect, but if I were to sell I
    wouldn't come here being the nice guy that I am and sell for a lot
    less so that somebody could grab my deals and run elsewhere to a show
    as a dealer and make a killing. If you are looking for bargains try
    the want advertiser or a yard sale. The people here deserve the prices
    they are asking, after all, they put all the time and trouble into
    finding the stuff....protecting it fom damage....saving it til it's
    showing some return. They deserve what the get. And one last thing to
    add is.......nobody says that you can't try to strike a lower deal
    with somebody here. Did you even try? I doubt it.
      Sorry if I got a little hot under the collar, but there ain't
    no such thing as a free lunch!
      

    re .0  Did you buy the turnip truck?  
    re .5  Thanks for saying eloquently what I would have yelled. 

    re.0 and .6.
    My commentary about the turnip truck isn't a referrence to the past,
    it's a referrence to naivete.  Buying and selling isn't a social
    experiment, nor is it rooted in altruism.  If the concept of
    profit or supply side economics is something you find offensive
    or foreign your road will be rocky.  I'm in this to make a profit
    that I can reinvest in aged collectables.  

    
     John, You are correct about Beckett's Guide. I stand corrected.
    One thing to add though...People in this notesfile would , for the
    most part, be writing from high population areas where high prices
    are common. Not to many of the noters I've seen in here are from
    West Virginia. Are you guy's? The main point I was trying to make
    was that area has a lot to do with selling price. Another was the
    fact that that most people want the most they can get for an item when
    they sell. Wouldn't you? If not let me know first.   8>)

Hey Guys, hold on now,
  
We have got people quittin', we got people going "read only" for WHAT!
Sure, I wrote the first note to fire all this off, I didn't want people to
quit, I wanted to "bring people back to Earth." I was getting tried of
people selling their cards for the same price I could buy them elsewhere.
I have gotten a lot of good deals from this notesfile, I have helped, and
been helped by other card collectors, and I don't and won't get a deal
from a notefiler then trade it to my local card store. And I don't think
many people here do that either, besides you local card store wouldn't
give you poop for it anyway. I collect cards 'cause I LOVE BASEBALL,
yes I said it I LOVE BASEBALL, I think it the great American game,
I travel a little for DEC and no matter what town I'm in I'll see a game.
I get bummed at season's end and turn into a school boy at the draft and
spring trainning. And let's face it most of us are in to Cards because of the
LOVE of the game weither it be baseball, basketball, hockey, or football.
And we have been collecting since we were young and for me seeing my early
teen-age sons collecting like I use to makes me sometimes get a little misty,
and bring back some fond memories of my youth. But of course there are some
DIRTBALLS that "are in it for the buck," and they spoil it for the rest of
us, but hey these guys really never last long, sure there around ripping us
off on "rare" Upper Deck '90 sets for $89.50, or "rare" Bork NHL errors for
$50.00, but it's you and me that can stop these DIRTBALLS... come on Roy and
all you other "READ ONLYS" help out the new guys, or the guys that have
been out of it for years but now back into because of their children,
I try to, but I need help, and yea I've been burned but if I got burned 100
times that one time the person said "thanks man...I owe you one, my kid's 
going to love this" makes it all seem all right again.

bill

    
    I really think it a shame that people have to resort to being "read
    only"'s in this notesfile.  If everyone became a read only, before
    long there would be nothing to read.  Granted, I'm not one of the
    more active contributers as far as advice and "how to"'s, but that's
    because 99% of the time, I don't know the answers to the questions.
    We have people in here that are very knowledgeable on the hobby (still
    is to me anyways) and I have learned a great deal in reading people's
    opinion and thoughts.  
    
    I guess I've been lucky, I've traded, bought and sold a fair amount
    through this notesfile and only got slightly scorched once.  That
    person is no longer at DEC.  I've had people give me cards when I
    needed 1 or 2, and I've done the same.  The integrtiy of the people
    contributing to this notesfile has never been questioned in my mind.
    ANd if it weren't for this notesfile, my collection would most
    certainly stagnate.  I was SO psyched to learn of this notesfile,
    and now seeing what is happening in it....well it's sad.  Think about
    just trading with just dealers!!  Think about selling to just dealers!!
    Think about buying from just dealers!!  If that isn't enough to get
    you out of your chair to preserve this notesfile....what is???
    
    Roy, and others....please reconsider...there are people still out
    here that value your opinions and would miss seeing them in here.
    
    Don't let a few bad turnips spoil a whole truckload.
    
    Pat Macfarlane

    
     I agree that you would be missed by us all, Roy. I have met you
    and talked to you and have learned to respect your views. Please 
    don't quit on us. I sent you mail today giving you permission to
    delete my notes if I was out of line. I guess I should have also
    pointed out that this file is open to dealers also and that is 
    why I said that a person had a right to ask what they wanted. I
    know of no dealer using this notesfile to front his business, because
    if he/she were, they would be violating company policies on using
    notesfiles. 
     If I were selling I would go to a major price guide and post an asking
    price. If I didn't do that where would I know where to start? I would
    probably be willing to take less depending on how much I had invested
    or how bad I needed the cash, but you you have to talk to me to get
    it at your price.
     I think it would be a nice thing for us to start a collecting club
    someday. Think of it, we could meet say monthly, get to know one 
    another and maybe even swap a few. Something to think about anyway
    and if Dec. bought it they would even give us a place to meet. Every 
    person that I have meet from this notesfile has been a real nice 
    person and I would enjoy being around them and learning from them.
     I'm sure it would have a big effect on us if we sold our stuff
    face to face. We would probably even come to respect the club's ethics. 

    WOW!!  Never thought I'd hear these type of comments from you guys. 
    What would Tony D. think of you guys right now?  
    
    My experiences on this file have been just great!  I don't collect the 
    new stuff, but when I have bought something from Tony, or John, Rick J.
    Jared, or Dave, I have been treated with fair prices, the merchandise
    has been delievered, and the money has been paid, never any problems.
    
    I even had a noter give me back money when he saw the same item selling
    for a cheaper price at a show.  Can you believe that, I paid him the 
    money for the set, I was happy, he was happy, and he walks over and
    gives me back $5.00!  The same guy even sent some Turtle cards to my
    son, who 6 years old for nothing!  Thats right, ZIPPO!  He knows who
    he is.  
    
    I have met some nice noters in here, seen them at shows, and look
    forward to reading this file everyday.  Makes my work day more
    enjoyable reading about the hobby and whats going on.  I would hate
    to think that Roy will not be contributing to it any longer.  Your 
    input is most desirable and interesting and your knowledge of the 
    hobby at a very high level.
    
    We will not always agree with everything said in this notes file, and
    that is good.
    
    We will not always agree to card prices, but that is good also.
    
    I have had noters offer me cards and memorabilia at prices well over 
    published guidelines, if I think they are to high, I always come back
    with a counter offer.  If they don't like the offer we may talk a
    little.  If we don't come to a happy medium, we don't deal, but I don't
    hold any grudges.  Life goes on, and believe me, if you look hard
    enough, the stuff will show up from time to time.  In my opinion,
    I like to feel I got a good deal, and I like to work a price I can live
    with.
    
    I think some of the guys selling in this file, (M. Kelly) sell at well
    below book prices and offer us very good deals on a regular basis on 
    Topps merchandise.  
    
    Remember, we live in the U.S. of A, not Iraq!  May this file live on!!

    Whoa!  Hold your horses! (and all those other good Western
    expressions).  I think the base note brings up some valid concerns.  I
    think all the responses that followed are good arguments also.  But to
    take a "I'm taking my ball and going home" type of attitude regarding
    the concerns does not solve anything.   You guys who have gone
    "read only" are respected contributors to this conference.  I think if
    personally evaluate the comments in the previous notes we might
    discover that some, if not all of us, are guilty to an extent.  
    
    Yes, some of us like myself and Rick J. set up at occasional card
    shows.  Others like Mike K. are what I would classify are full time
    dealers.  Others are collectors.  But think about this, by definition
    anyone who places an ad in the For Sale topic is dealing in cards.  
    I have traded with several noters.  I have used Beckett as a guide
    because it's the only one I get.  I have always given my trading
    partner a list of my needs.  Hopefully, they are of equal value.  If
    not I would expect them to make a counter offer.  I think I have been
    fair and will strive to continue that fairness.  If I'm not being fair
    then it's the other person's responsibility to speak up.
    
    I don't agree with defaming people.  If in the past I have, then
    consider this a blanket apology.   We all get carried away in the heat
    of identifying 'sleaze bag' dealers.  In reality we are defaming those
    people without them having an opportunity to defend themselves.  I for
    one have been guilty of this.
    
    Let's try to change the perceptions rather than run to the convienent
    'read only' mode.
    
    Roy and John, I ask you not to go 'read only' on us but to stay active.
    Maybe by example we can change the flavor of this conference.  I am
    willing to do my part and I'm sure the rest of the noters will do
    their's.  Let's make this thing work!
    joe

    I agree read only isn't the answer.  I've also launched missles and
    apologize.  I'm not a dealer, I'm a wholesaler.  I buy stuff in bulk
    and resell ( ie thousands of Janney Rooks-Red Sox team sets ).  I won't
    apologize for my prices most of my stuff is entered in this note at my
    cost or near my cost because I need the added volume to get the lowest
    price.  I win-You win.   I use the profit I make to  buy mint older
    stuff 201's 206's 53's.  I don't trade because I can't find many folks
    with the stuff I want that is cherry.
    This whole thing is my "night out with the boys" + I love the game
    I'd rather buy a sub and go to Fenway for BP than almost anything.
    Sometimes I leave after BP if it was really good and the players start
    launching rockets.  I did that twice this year in Oakland.  I love BP
    I hate plastic stadia.
    
    I get ticked when other noters generalize about dealers, organizations,
    and channels like sports net without factual information or first
    hand experience.  I'm the same about similar things outside 
    baseball cards ... I find generalizations offensive. 
    Yes I know that that is a generalization.   Yes I have a
    hit list of dealers that I wouldn't help out of a fire.  Yes I
    know some noters that I would only sell to via Cash pre-paid.
    
    So where to from here.  I like the other ideas that have been 
    listed, I would like to add this one.  How about a display
    not a show for the noters.  Bring your favorite stuff put it
    out for display.  Other noters look at it talk about it
    whatever.  Nothing can be sold. 
    
    Mike    

    I like the idea!  Show and tell.  I bet the noters in this file have
    some nice stuff for display and we all would be better for it.  I know
    Mike K. has some real old Topps cards that probably none of us have
    ever seen outside of a picture in a price guide.  It would be a lot of
    fun to show off some of the collections, autographs, bats, balls,
    uniforms, etc. that we all have in our collections.
    
    How about borrowing one of DEC's auditoriums, and we all set up as a
    display only, no selling.  Charge the public $2.00  or something
    for admission, and turn the proceeds over to the Jimmy Fund, United
    Way, or some local charity.  We would probably get a nice write-up
    in the DTW, local newspapers, and make a nice donation to one of the
    charities.  I bet you would pack the place!!  The collectors would 
    come just to see what the hobby really is all about.  
    
    Does anyone else have any suggestions??  This is a good time of the
    year to set one up, as it would tie into the United Way Campaign going
    on presently within DEC.  If we could, we could open it to the public
    for additional donations.  Only a suggestion.

    Mike......I think a 'display' show is a great idea. I don't recall the
    names, but there are folks in here who have described some pretty
    impressive collections and some very interesting stories. I, for one, 
    would love the chance to see a mint Ryan or Mantle or Yaz rookie. For my 
    part, I'm most proud of my Tony C collection. Though it is FAR from 
    complete it brings to mind thoughts of my younger days in the same way it 
    must for you others to look at the cards collected so many years ago. 
    The cards and other memorabilia would be interesting, but the associated 
    stories much more so. ( I think my favorite story so far is the one
    Jeff Maxwell can tell about his 'Tony C' rookie )
    
    I'll be following this note to see what the interest level is.
    
    	dennis
    

    I also like the idea and have had good luck trading in this file and do
    not feel cheated in any items i bought. I have quite a collection of
    red sox stuff that i would like to show off. But why not be able to 
    trade and sell at the same time?
    
    kevin

    I don't know what you guys are even talking about because I've decided
    to go write-only from now on.

    re .19 + .20
    Thanks for the response.  My goal would be to get everyone together
    to improve understanding and communication.  If it's a display,
    or show or charity event it's OK with me.  I like the idea of a
    charity event. Suggest that we don't charge admission and that a fixed
    %age of all sales go to one charity with matching funds.  We could also
    ask for a donation rather than an entry fee.  
    Is there a way to include noters outside of the New England Area?
    Can we possibly talk out team captain (rjk) to come out of
    retirement to manage the event?   
    

    RE: .0

    Bill

    Just wanted to let you know that I appreciate what you've done to this
    notesfile. I have so much more time now to read other notesfiles...

    8^(((

    There is no Bill Flow. That's just Tony Daniele's nom de plume.

    I wouldn't dare. Actually, the real originator of this note is back
    from his journey now and will probably comment here any day now.
    

Hello all,
       Yes, I am a real person, I (like I have said before), did not mean to 
hurt anyone, I was just stating the facts as I saw them. If this is a crime
then there is no free speech.

Bill

    Sounds to me like he's a regular Joe - You Know a Flow-Joe