Conference school::sports_memorabilia

    John, are you talking New England?  I run into all types of dealers
    here.  Those that price high and will dicker, those that price high
    and won't.  Same extremes with dealers who price at book.  Then
    there's me.  If I am ambivalent about selling a card (meaning
    subconciously I really don't want to sell it!), I'll price it high.
    But generally I figure I'm not likely to sell an item at all if
    it's not priced competitively.  
    
    As for the velcro wallet set, I remember when the Topps Eric Davis
    rookie was actually selling for it's $15-16 book price.  I took
    a number of off-center Erics to a show and put them out at anywhere
    from $5 to $10 depending on how badly off they were.  Not a bad
    deal, when you consider how tough it is to find that card
    well-centered.  But the kids would pick them up and say "why's this
    card so cheap? What's the matter with it?"  And when I explained
    about the varying degrees of off-centeredness, they just looked
    at me suspiciously as if the cards must be counterfeit.  Probably
    could've sold 'em all at $14.99.  Go figure.  It does however make
    me a little queasy to see a mother shelling out $50 to buy junior
    a Canseco rookie.  

    I can understand all this indignation but you all have to realize that
    everyone's in it for the money, dealers and collectors (not all
    collectors, of course).  If someone will pay $65 for an UD set, how
    many of us would refuse to sell it for that price?
    
    I actually don't notice much of this because I generally just look at
    older cards at these shows.  And what I've noticed is that, in spite of
    people saying that you can throw the book out, dealers generally price
    these cards at around book.  Also, I've found many to be quite fair,
    willing to take 10 to 15% off, sometimes more if you go near the end of
    the show.
    
    I know the action is in newer cards.  Everybody's real anxious to horde
    - whoops, I meant accumulate - as many cards of the next real hot
    player so they can amass their fortunes (just wait til everybody
    decides to dump Kevin Mitchell cards at the same time).
    
    Another thing about dealers - I find many of them just regular guys
    trying to make a living.  Lots of these people do this as a second job. 
    One guy I bought cards from gave me his business card - it describes
    him as a house painter.
    
    Just remember - if there weren't a market for this stuff, there'd be no
    complaints about the prices.  Much of the attractiveness of sports
    cards is in either their current value or the expectation that their
    value will increase.
    
    Just my opinion.
    
    Mike

    Mike, 
    
    I understand all that; like I said, this is America. I, like you,
    look mostly for older cards. Perhaps it's a regional problem only
    here, but prices for commons are way out of line, in my opinion.
    One guy wanted $3.00 each for low # 60 cent commons from 1963, and
    he's not the lone ranger. Another guy at the same show wanted $7.00
    for 2 commons from 1964. Yet another wanted $90.00 for a 1965 Joe
    Morgan rookie, and it wasn't even mint. If I want a 1969 Bobbie
    Bonds (book-$8.00) I have to pay $20.00 to $25.00. The *best* I've
    seen on this card is $18.00. Another fellow had a 1963 Willie Mays
    for $30.00 over book, and it was so far off center that there was
    no top border. These are just a few examples that I saw *at one
    show* that caused me to pop off the way I did. Maybe I was out of
    line, but I don't think so.
    
    See ya,
    
    John D.
    

    C'mon guys...it's supply and demand that dictates the price of cards.
    If people weren't willing to pay big bucks for cards, dealers wouldn't
    be selling them at that price.  Don't blame the dealers!  They just
    want to make as large a profit as possible which is the way businesses
    operate.  
    	Personally, I'm not going to pay those big prices dealers are
    asking these days.  I also think that eventually the bottom will
    drop out on these overinflated prices.  Time will tell.
    
    Gone,
    Mike

    Mike, 
    
    I agree. I guess my basic question is why are people in such a frenzy
    to pay through the nose for everything in sight? If more people used
    *any* sort of judgement at all, it wouldn't be as painful to watch.
    I guess the "human condition" never ceases to amaze me. Perhaps
    I'm just a whiner, but how about an answer for this:
    
    Dealers A thru Y have card X for $10.00. Does it or does it not
    make sense for dealer Z to price card X for $9.00 and sell more?
    
    The reason I ask is this: With new cards, everybody has them, and
    at the same price. Now, assuming that everybody has a similar markup
    (A reasonable assumption?), why isn't anyone trying to undercut
    everybody else and cash in? I would! If I were a dealer, and I had
    a bunch of Kevin Mitchell's (for example) left over from before
    he got hot, I'd be tempted to sell them for a buck less each and
    still make a good profit.
    
    Does anyone see the errors (if any) in my logic?
    
    John D.
    

    

    re: -1
    
    I think the problem (buyer's), is that dealer Z is going to sell
    just as many at $10.00 as he will at $9.00, so why reduce the price?
    
    Smitty

    Tony and I were just talking about this the other day! I went to
    pick up a Munson card for my Munson collection and it(75) was three
    bucks over the guide! I asksed why and the dweeb said "its" just
    a survey, we don't go by that. He failed to mention that they also
    don't pay 50% of the low either. Buy low sell outrageously high.
    Keep it on Wall Street. I'm just collecting cards of players I like.
    I'm not trying to be the next Rockefeller! I have a policy, if the
    jerk has two cards-a mis cut cheapie and an overpriced mint, I'll
    buy the cheap one. I want the picture not the cutting technique.
    He may sell the other to someone else, thats ok with me cause I
    am not forking the big bucks. say *NOSTALGIA*. Munson is not a hall
    of famer, he was good but I identified with him when I played ball
    and thats why I'm after his cards. If they try to soak me on his
    or any others, I'll just be content. And I'll never pay $70 for
    a current year set!
    
    Al                        flame on low

    That's content with what I have. Not content with getting soaked!
    
    still steamin
    
    Al

    
    I think baseball cards are just the "pet rock" of 1989. Every year
    there seems to be some trend created by our wonderful journalists and
    many folks just feel compelled to be like the Jone's.
    
    I suggest that you wait until after Christmas, long after baseball
    season and the annual buying frenzy, to go card shopping. By then the
    country will be emersed in something besides baseball, the demand will
    fall like a rock and you will be able to get all these fly by night
    dealers to "pay you" to take their cards. After all, does it really
    matter if you have a certain card today or 4 months from now?
    
    My guess, based on many casual conversations with dealers, is that they
    expect to see the market fall dramaticaly and are trying to get
    anything they can now. Isn't this the great capitalist way??
    
    Be cool for now......
    
    JMB

		I attended my first card show Saturday.. It was
	ok, I really went to get Killebrews autograph..  It was
	fun to see some of the older cards I have on sale by the
	various dealers.. For instance, a Nolan Ryan card when he
	was with the Mets was selling for $30... I liked that, I
	have a few of those.. A Pete Rose I have was $30., and a
	1954 Yogi Berra I have was there for $200... I also got
	to chat a little with Harmon and found him to be a real
	nice guy and is about the exact same size as me!!  I guess
	I thought he would be a BIG man.. ;^{)  All in all, I had
	a good time, then again, I didn't buy anything.. :-{)
	My only complaint was that it was mighty hot in there and
	Harmon didn't show up till 3:00pm, he was supposed to be
	there at 2:00...

Rick

    I have noticed a substantial growth in the number of card shops
    in this (Southern N.H.) area. Many of the newer shops are underpricing
    the more established shops. I guess what this means is that supply
    and demand works both ways. Some of these shops that are just now
    opening up could be guys, or gals, like you and me that were pi$$ed
    off at the inflated prices, and went ahead, and did something about
    it. All I know is, I hope the trend continues. I don't mind if
    dealers make profit, but it is also their duty to keep things in
    prospective. Just one tidbit for those of you who buy old wax packs
    from time to time, I bought an 84 wax pack the other day, and yes,
    the top card was Mattingly, bingo! 
    
    gs
    

    I guess this note is a s good as any. I was at a show on Saturday and
    one dealer had 1 BOX ( not case ) of '86 Fleer Basketball cards (Jordan
    rookie for $1000. I stared at the price for awhile to make sure I
    wasn't mistaken. I knew it was true when the dealer next to him was
    smiling in disbelief and pointing to the box. The real sad part was
    the dealer selling the box thought another dealer would have a box at
    this show for $1100. Just thought some of you would get a chuckle out
    of this.
    
    John

    John.....
    
    When you stop and add it up, it's not all that outrageous!
    
    The Jordan is at $200 and the Ewing is at $100, right?
    The distribution that year was great, you would get a Jordan at an
    average of 1 per 12 packs and the same is for the Ewing.  Plus
    Fleer bought back all the waxes that didn't sell by a certian date.
    So there is nothing out there for these cards, I know I've been trying
    to complete a set since '87.
    
    So, on average that's 3 of each.  Let's add!
    
    3 Jordan's @ $200...................... $ 600
    3 Ewing's @ $100....................... $ 300
    $100 for a rarity...................... $ 100
                                            =====
                                            $1000
    
    Looks close, but you could get more or less!  Never know that the great
    stuff about wax.
    
    One important thing, and this goes to everyone, make sure that they are
    not searched.  A hot item like this could be picked thru.  Just check
    the seal on the back, make sure it looks original.  If you see extra
    glue, say "NO THANKS, I'LL PASS!"
    
    IMHO,
    Glenn

    Thats what I call "RISKY BUSINESS".  What if he only get one of each?? 
    Or none of each??  I'll take my chances and buy the card for $200, $300 
    and at least know I'm getting one.  I guess the excitement of opening
    all 36 packs makes it worth it?

    I've heard rumors that a Ryne Sandberg rookie card is going for up to
    $80.00 in the Chicago area. Is this true? Can anyone verify this?
    
    I sure hope not!
    
    John D.
    

    I can verify $65 in Colorado Springs......so ChiTown
    just may have them at that price.
    
    GG

    I moved notes 3.23-3.25 from the Want Note to this note since they
    didn't follow the rules of the want note.
    
    John (co-moderator)
    
        <<< CERBUS::EARTHPIG:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS_MEMORABILIA.NOTE;1 >>>
                            -< Sports Memorabilia >-
================================================================================
Note 3.23                       The *Wanted* Note                       23 of 25
SBGPX2::BELISLE "Mike Belisle MRO4-1/H20 297.3324"   16 lines  23-OCT-1991 10:06
                -< I'm done trying to feel everyones wantlist! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	I just love the noters in this conference that place there
	'Wantlist' and then when you reply to them with the cards
	you have for them, they ignore you.
	I think must of them 'EXPECT' to get what there looking for
	for free (all the time). Well, let me tell ya, I have my
	limits as to what I can give away and for some of you out 
	there (and you know who you are) I've given you a lot of 
	cards in the past, without getting anything in return. How
	long did you think this was going to last. Gee, you guys can
	really screw a good think up! Now I have to go home tonight 
	and re-file the cards someone was looking for.

	I'll close with one statement: 'Delete note Sports_Memorabilia'

	
================================================================================
Note 3.24                       The *Wanted* Note                       24 of 25
IAMOK::MILLER_G                                      26 lines  23-OCT-1991 10:26
                       -< No way to run a notes-file!! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    re:.23
    
    	I second the motion....I also went through many cards that was 
    	listed in the Wanted note..from...Get this...The Moderator I 
    	believe?  for SCORE 91 Hockey..
    
    	I replied to his note indicating that I had found 10 cards to
    	help complete his set, as well as including a list of cards that
    	I was looking for, in hopes of some trading...HAAAAA!!!!
    
    	I left my DTN and Vaxmail address...do you think I heard from him?
    
    	HELL NO!!!!!!  I found out that the reply i issued was deleted!!
    
    	I am fairly new to card collecting and am having alot of fun in
    	the process, but it would of been nice if the individual would of
    	at least took the time to respond in some way...The only response
    	was a new revised want list that had fewer cards listed!!
    
    	NICE GUY!!
    
    	TRADE ELSE_WHERE!!
    
    
    	Gary.
================================================================================
Note 3.25                       The *Wanted* Note                       25 of 25
FUTURE::JST_ONGE "John St.Onge USDSL DTN 275-2715"    8 lines  23-OCT-1991 10:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Re: .24
    
    Chances are that if you replied within this note to another note, it'll
    probably be deleted. Try sending mail. In fact this reply will probably
    be deleted also ;-)  Maybe this should  go  in the "Kill The Moderator"
    Note ;-)
    
    John (Co-moderator)
    

    Roy,
    
    	After reading your response on my piss an moan lecture, I realized 
    	that I did not follow the intructions laid out in the conference.
    
    	My fault, so as i sit here with Egg dripping of my face, I would
        like to thankyou for pointing out a few issues that I did not 
    	consider prior to jumping on the band-wagon to bash!!
    
    	What can i say??   get the "EGG_BEATERS" I'm ready to be mixed!
    
    	I will be going over the rules in more depth as not to side-step
    	then make accusations.....must be the pressure today..
    
    
    	I hope we can forget this incident.......
    
    
    	Gary
    

	Yes John, I agree with you, I have had my share of good deals, but
	you have to admit, they've been with you or Roy!! And you also have
	to admit that we do are trading among ourselves like that all the
	time. What I'm trying to say is, if you need cards and I have them 
	there yours, even if I don't get any in return.

	My original gripe was that when I try doing this with other noters
	in this conference all they do is take, never give back in return.
	I bet, (I know Roy, no betting) that 90% of the noters that enter
	there wantlist into this notesfile haven't a clue as to extracting
	others peoples wantlist. 

	So all I'm asking is for the noters placing the wantlist, have some
	kind of method of communicating to anyone who answers that wantlist
	with a reply.

	My example would be this past Friday, I extracted somebody wantlist
	and checked over the weekend to see if I have any. I did, but because
	I didn't tell this person in advance, I knew there was a possibility
	that he would say, 'Oh sorry Mike, I picked those cards up over the
	weekend, in that case I would re-file them back into my collection.
	But, when that person doesn't have the brains to even reply back to
	me, now that's rude! And thats where I draw the line.

    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    From:	SSVAX::LEONHARDT    "Qualification/Customer Satisfaction 223-6845" 30-JUL-1991 22:28:55.63
To:	SBGPX2::BELISLE
CC:	LEONHARDT
Subj:	88 FLEER BB

Got the following:

8, 56, 60, 69, 86, 87, 91, 200, 245, 282, 299, 342, 379, 385, 409, 419, 439,
450, 476, 500, 501, 542, 550, 568, 582, 594, 603

Dick

	No Dick,

	I added you into the 10%..... Still 90% don't know how to extract!!

    
    I know I'm going regret getting into this but...
    
    Mike did you give this person a second "what gives you never got
    back to me mail"?  If so, then ok that does suck, but it is
    possible that someone just became too busy and unintentially
    forgot about your mail.  Of course when this happens repeatedly,
    then I can see your beef.
    
    There was a point a couple of weeks ago where I was involved in so 
    many trades and there was enough going on in the rest of my life, 
    that I forgot about some trade mail from another noter.  He finally 
    sent me a reminder and I went back and filled his want list.  
    
    On a different subject:
    There is nothing evil about selling cards to fill a want list,
    if the poster of the want list is willing and the filler of wants
    offers a reasonable price on which the two parties privately agree.
    I concur that trading without regard to what your giving up vs. what 
    your getting is more fun and things tend to even out in the end anyway, 
    but we should allow that some folks feel more comfortable about trading 
    when the price guide values match up on a trade.  That's ok too (in my 
    book).  Tolerance is a good thing.  
    
    jeff
    

Mike
	II'll be honest, I was one of those a$$h@les who wanted like in trade.  
That's because I've been burnt too many times in the past and it's tough to 
trust someone who you've never met once you've been on the recieving end.

  I've probably traded with at least 6-10 of you guys and over half of these 
deals went great.  I'm still waiting for 2 guys (who will remain nameless) to 
fulfill their side of their deals.  But I know they won't cause they've both 
left the company with my cards & cash... 

  I've also frustraited one of you guys with expecting something in return, 
and have since apologised to him, and hope to deal with him again.  

I think I learned from that one...

  It's tough to trust someone who you've never met once you've been burnt.  






p.s.  Now you can make that 89%...


        <<< CERBUS::EARTHPIG:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS_MEMORABILIA.NOTE;1 >>>
                            -< Sports Memorabilia >-
================================================================================
Note 80.25                  General Piss & Moan Note                    25 of 25
SBGPX2::BELISLE "Mike Belisle MRO4-1/H20 297.3324"    4 lines  23-OCT-1991 16:39
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	No Dick,

	I added you into the 10%..... Still 90% don't know how to extract!!

    
    One other thing that burns me, and I know it burns at least one other
    noter.
    
    Suppose I'm missing one or two cards to complete a set.
    
    Suppose you have those 2 cards, but you don't have doubles of them.
    
    But you need 20 or 30 cards to complete your set.
    
    I check your want-list, and I have 15 of those cards.
    
    Why, oh why, please tell me why, can't you pull the one or two
    cards from your set that I need?  Sure, then you'll need them,
    ****BUT**** you are +13 cards ahead of the game.  You're getting
    15 you need, and adding two more "needs", for a net gain of 13
    cards you need.
    
    This goes a long way towards establishing goodwill with your
    fellow noter, and a favor is usually always returned.
    
    -rjk

	I know that you cannot force anyone to follow any rules when
	we do trading thru the mail, so I am only going to tell you 
	what I do, which I consider good practice

	After I sent something in the mail to someone, I send him/her/it
	an electronic mail message saying something like:  

		I just put the cards in the mail today, let me know
		when you get them.
	
        When someone sends me something in the mail, and I receive it, 
	I send back an electronic mail message saying something like:

		I just received today what you sent me, thank you.

	If I send someone something in the mail, and they receive it, it's
	nice to know that they got it, so I would like to receive an 
	electronic mail message saying something like:

		Juan, I just received what you sent me, thanks.

	That way, you don't have to keep wondering whether they got it ot not.
	Of course, if they don't get it, you know you are going to hear about
	it anyway, but it's also nice to know that they did get it.  

	If someone has already sent me mail saying that they put the cards
	in the mail, and it has been a few days, and I haven't received it
	yet, I still wait a few more days, say a total of one week, before
	I send back another electronic mail message saying something like:

		If you sent me the cards, I haven't received them yet.

	That way, if they forgot to mail them in the first place, it serves
	as a reminder, and if they did mail them, then they will know that
	something has gone wrong.

	The reason I wait at least a week, is because the cards may have gone
	the wrong route, and somebody realized the mistake, and has put them
	back on the right track.	
	
	Also, when you have sent an electronic mail message to someone, and
	it has been a day or two, and you haven't received any response, I
	think it's a good idea to wait another day or two, because that
	person may have gone on vacation, or may have gone on a trip out of
	town, or may have been so busy that hasn't had the time to reply,
	or they could be having system problems (I can hear the system
	people already: System problems ?  No way...!!)

	It's good to have a little patience. However, if a person has a habit
	of doing this, then you can safely assume that that's the way that
	person behaves, and you can cross him/her/it out of your trading
	list. Don't be afraid to take chances on someone new, and give them 
	the benefit of the doubt, but keep in mind the old saying:

		Fool me once, shame on you.
		Fool me twice, shame on me.

    
    
    I haven't been in here in a while and I really don't get that much
    involved in card trading because basically I can't keep up. so I 
    stick to comics.  I have dealt with a few of you and in many cases 
    since I'm not a real card collector I haven't had anything you need 
    in return so either I'll just send back an equal amount of cards or 
    $$ always more than what would be considered fair.  ANYWAY, my
    editorial has to do with the time. Let's face it folks these types of
    notes are for fun/slack time that you have at work or if you log in at
    night from home BUT this type of stuff or responding to mail doesn't 
    sit high on a priority list when you are working in a company that is 
    currently pretty sad.  I'm far from a big wig here but I do get caught
    up and if I get messages from someone about comics, cards, hockey or 
    gab mail IT SITS until I can get to it (usually Friday afternoon 8^) ) 
    
    So all I say is if folks don't get back to you right away don't get 
    pissy and if you pull cards for someone why go home and rush to put
    them right back ??? keep em' seperate for a week what's the big deal. 
    
    As I said I don't deal much in cards (hockey and comics only) so I'm 
    not in here that much but boy half the notes I've read lately are 
    cry baby pout notes about the way things are happening in here. 
    As for people doing right by you in return face it it's not always 
    gonna happen I still remember getting proked not too long ago by
    someone involved in notes that took an old Ken Dryden card from me
    worth around $15 and in return gave me a hand full of Bruins new 
    PRO SET commons. Shame on me for dealing in good faith and not knowing
    what I had an shame on that person for screwing a fello DECie.
    
    
    Ron