Conference school::sports_memorabilia

    The Boston Globe's sportswriter Shaughnnesy won't be voting for
    Pete.  Course this guy doesn't figure Cepeda or Jenkins are moral
    enough to make it.  

    One of the things that concerns me about betting on a game is that you
    manage to win just that game.  There may be decisions a manager can
    make that would affect an entire season or a player's career.
    
    For example, over the past two years (maybe longer, I don't have any
    cards here that would provide statistics) Rob Murphy has pitched in
    over 60 games each year.  Perhaps Rose felt that in a particular game
    Murphy was essential to guarantee a win, even tho overwork might
    jeopardize his career.  Who knows?
    
    Some people say that gambling at the level he was (allegedly) doing is
    an illness and that he couldn't help himself.  Maybe so, once it became
    an illness, but some time in his life he had never bet on a Reds' game
    and he wasn't in the clutches of the illness then.  When he decided to
    bet on his first game, he certainly knew what he was risking.
    
    I've never been a Pete Rose fan so his memorabilia is of little
    interest to me.  I think there are arguments favoring either a rise or
    a decline in value.  However, I did notice Red Schoendienst's cards are
    worth more now than before his election.
    
    Mike

    HOW can Giamatti take the word of know drug dealers to convict Pete
    Rose of placing bets on his team.Sure Pete gambles on the horses
    and college football or basketball.But i don't think he bet on
    baseball. Even if he is banished from the game he has spent his
    whole life in it should effect his election into the hall of fame.
    
    kcw

    
    Re: .0
    
    I disagree with the notion that Rose is O.K. as long as he didn't bet
    against his team.  That's baloney.  As a manager, Rose has frequently
    been criticized for misusing his bullpen when most other managers would
    simply give up on a game when too far behind in the late innings...in
    effect, to rest the bullpen for more realistic save opportunities.  Not
    Rose though.
    
    Anybody got an idea of how much an autographed Pete Rose betting slip
    is worth?   I say toss him the hell out of the game and deny him the
    Hall of Fame.   On the other hand, if only he had been caught doing
    coke to help aid the contra effort, then everything would be just hunky
    dory.  - Jim
    

    
    Re: .10  Yes, Giamatti can decide that Rose cannot be in the Hall of
    Fame.  - Jim
    

    As I was saying before I was so rudely interrupted, there will no
    doubt be a card set issued on the whole scandal, say 60 cards with
    a nice mix of photos and paintings, featuring events such the
    Commissioner's injudicious letter to the judge, Rose flashing hand
    signals to bookies, etc.   Better yet, a 132 card set on Boggs and
    his off-field affairs.  
    
    Tony, welcome back from wherever you've been. Now start your own
    damned topic!

    If I buy a case of the Boggs/Adams cards, who's interested in sets?
    
    Brings new meaning to the expression "flashing signs."
    
    Mike

    Don't worry, Tony, the price will probably go up anyway, even if
    the hypocritical sportswriters never vote him into the Hall.
    
    By the way, I propose that former players, not sportswriters, should do
    the voting, based on years of big league service.  Yaz, for instance,
    would get his 23 votes, while Roger LaFrancois would get 1.  Leigh
    Montville and the other Boston Globe hacks would get NONE.  

    
    
    And speaking of prices (somewhere way back..) What do you guys see
    around for current prices (& their condition) for a 63T Rose Rookie 
    at shops or shows (Mass area)?
    
    	-John

    You think that speech was bad, just imagine if Pete had hired Roger
    Clemens as his spokesman!
    
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any of the allegations
    concerned the time when Pete was a player.  I think Shoeless should
    be in the Hall, too, as should Jenkins and probably Cepeda.  There
    are a lot of other skeletons in Hall members' closets, I'm sure.
    But in the old days, the media weren't in everybody'd faces all
    the time, prying into players' personal lives, making mountains
    out of molehills.  Ty Cobb, for example, from all accounts I've
    read, was a racist,psychopathic, and basically a mean son of a bitch.
    But he was a hell of a player.  Anyway, there'll be no justice till
    Roger Maris gets in. Just my opinion.

    
    So what are the "going" prices for Rose cards?
      
    I personally have all his cards through 1985 (except for maybe some
    	"Twinkie" cards, or other unusual ones) and am wondering what
    	there bringing in.  I have about 70 cards mostly near-mint,
    	at worst excellent.
    
    I bought most of them in the late 70's, and then each year through
    	'85 I bought that year's card(s) so needless to say, I haven't
    	spent much on what should be quite a valuable set.
                                         
    VT

    Does the new "Over-35" baseball league have any affiliation with
    major league ball?  Just wondering if old Pete, whose only other
    interest besides gambling is baseball, will be eligible to play
    in that league.

    RE:-.1
    
    Let's assume that whether the 35+ league is affiliated with MLB
    or not, they also have a commisioner and their commisioner has
    some scruples.  Don't look for Pete to make an appearance in uniform
    anywhere ... maybe ever again.
    
    My $.02 ... I think he belongs in the HOF .... I'd love to see him
    play with the over 35 league.  But first, the boy needs treatment.
    
    Steve

    The following article appeared in today's sport section. (S.F.Chronicle)
    
    
    " Baseball-memorabilia dealers are being questioned by the I.R.S.
    and the F.B.I. agents as part of a federal grand jury inquiry to
    determine whether Pete Rose evaded income taxes."
    
    " Dealers Charles Soto and Chuck Perkins said federal agents asked
    them about memorabilia shows featuring Rose, former Cincinnati Reds
    player and manager, and asked that they turn over thier company's
    finacial records."
    
    
    
    While they're at it, maybe they should talk to the cable shopping
    network! 8^)
    
    John D.
    
    
    
    

    Any of you guys that think "mr. pete rose" will get to the HOF in this
    century, should move on to the "Daydreaming" section, because this over
    inflated, "FAT BOY" isn't going to make it!!  No way, any way is a
    lying, cheating, dishonest, tax evading, gambling, baseball player
    going to ever get elected to the Hall.  The only Hall this guy is going
    to see is THE HALL OF JUSTICE.  The guy is stupid.  He thought he would
    try to tax evasion as well as place bets on games, and not report it to
    the IRS.  This organization does not take prisoners, and I hope they 
    hang this SOB by his b_lls, so to set the example to other ballplayers
    that they too have to abide by the law like the rest of us mortals.  What 
    does he think he is Gods gift to mankind.  He's a punch and judy hitter
    that ran to first base on walks, just to piss-off the pitchers, and if
    you think Wade Boggs is a selfish ballplayer, than mr. pete rose has
    to be 5 times as bad.  And anyone that ever compares this jerk to the 
    likes of a Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Willie Mays or Mickey Mantle, needs as 
    much help as old mr. pete.  Not once did mr pete ever come close to
    winning a triple crown, a home run title, an RBI title, and did he ever
    set the world on fire with his post season play?  Lets face it, if he
    hadn't lasted for 20+ years, he would be a name of the past, forgotten,
    and playing golf somewhere that no one cares about.  He never did any
    charity work that I ever read about, unless he got some track money
    under the table.  Never ever did a card show for free, just to show
    people he didn't need another  $2500 bucks so he could bet it on the 
    next Reds vs. Dodgers nite game.  And he never even took care of his
    own family, thought his own kid would show him up someday, so he
    refused to help him in anyway, and he was embarssed by his daughter, 
    because she was overweight.  Yes, and you Cinnci fans are going to
    tell me he's a most honorable man, in his own way.  
    I want to see this guy loose 60lbs in a jail for 6 years, and I hope
    the FEDS don't cut any deals with this scumbag, egotistical, sadist,
    macho, fathead, little blimp, gamblingman, tax evading exnohalloffame
    ballplayer!  

    	... I take it you don't like Pete Rose Rick 8^) !!!  Hey ...
    I couldn't have said it better myself.  Remember ...
    
    Pete "I can honestly say that I never bet on baseball" Rose
    
    	Whatta lyin bastard !  I hope his cards "crash" (... I need
    the '63 to complete my Yankees team set 8^) !!!
    
    					Tony

    Does this mean Rick's gonna have to issue a retraction?
    
    By the way, I heard Pete on the radio this morning saying this tax
    trouble was "due to some gambling problems I had" and that "hopefully
    the government will be understanding and we can get this thing behind
    us."  Well, he can always get a job in the State Department if he can
    put spin on the facts like that!

    
    Isn't it a shame that some of Mr. Rose's tax evasion problems stem from 
    the fact that he failed to report income "earned" from baseball card
    show appearances and autograph fees?  Too bad, poor Pete.
    
    Incidentally, Pete is facing up to 5 years in prison - although its not
    very likely that he'll serve any time there.  But if he does, can the
    Pete Rose autographed handcuff set and nail file be far behind?
    
    Gary

    Sorry Roy, but the paper has said that he has pleaded guilty, I quote,
    "to two counts of filing false tax returns that could mean up to six
    years in jail".  By pleading guilty, Rose is protected from more serious
    felony tax charges.  If some judge lets this "bum" off the hook for tax
    evasion, can you see it now what a message the IRS is sending to the 
    American people.  Go out and gamble, ruin your life, bet on ball games,
    and CHEAT on your taxes.  I swear, if this guy doesn't do time, the IRS
    in my eyes have lost all crediability as an enforcement bureau, and I
    hope all these card dealers out there refuse to turn over their tax 
    dollars and rip-off the government for as much as they can get away
    with.  If old mr. pete  can do it, so can old joe here.  Pete has to
    spend some time in jail, and they have to stop cutting deals with this
    guy, or the American people will take charge and stop paying taxes.
    I wonder when they are going to start raiding these shows, and start
    taking down names of dealers, to generate some tax dollars, both Fed
    and State.  I think its a matter of time.    

    
    	What Pete did off the field has NOTHING to do, or shouldn't anyway,
    with the HOF! Pete has said he didn't bet on baseball... how do you
    guys KNOW he did???? 
    
    Ya... he never won the tripple crown cause he was NOT a homerun
    hitter....  anyway.... If any of you Rose bashers want to get rid
    of his rookie card....
    
    	Smitty

    I loved Pete Rose, the baseball player.  I absolutely loved
    watching him play.   He was the catalyst behind the Phillies' 1980
    World Series victory and he brought out the best in players like
    Schmidt, Bowa, Maddox, and others.
    
    What has happened to him now is very sad.  I can only hope that he
    can turn things around.  If he has to do time, then so be it.
    
    From what I read over the weekend, Rose is indeed now a convicted
    felon.  He pleaded (pled?) guilty to two counts of filing false
    tax  returns.   These are lesser charges than tax evasion which
    will not be pursued.
    
    As for punishment, there is now a set of guidelines for sentencing
    in tax cases like this.  One of the charges against Rose occurred
    before the guidelines were in place and one of the charges occurred
    afterwards.  Therefore, the judge has some leeway.  Before the
    sentencing guidelines were developed, Rose's charges stood a good
    chance of getting him probation only.   Something like only 3% of
    similar pre-guideline cases got jail time.   Now it's more like
    50% will see time.
    
    My guess is he will get a mix.  He'll see some jail time but he'll
    get a heavier dose of probation.
    
    I think he should be punished but I will always cherish his
    playing.  He was special and I would mark my Hall Of Fame ballot
    with a "Yes".
    
    Bob Hunt

    
     You can bet if he does do some time it will be at one of those
    White Collar crime facilities where all the corrupt bankers and stock
    brokers who are fould guilty of insider trading are sent. You know the
    ones with the Golf courses, tennis courts, bingo.....ect... 
    
    Rick

    
    RE:27
    
    You put it very well Roy and I agree 100%.  If the video sales are down
    you could always get a writing job with the Globe.
    
    Jeff
    

    re 29
    
    Please don't insult our moderator by saying he could get a job writing
    at the Globe.  

    Here's a letter I wrote and sent to Pete Rose last summer during
    the height of his problems and shortly after the kids from
    Trumbull, Connecticut won the Little League World Series.  I never
    heard back from him but I hope he read it.  I was sincere.
    
    Bob Hunt
    
    
    
    Dear Pete,
    
    Words can not express how sad I am to see what has happened to you. 
    You were truly one of the all-time legendary great ballplayers.  You
    brought a passion, a drive, and a desire to win to the ballpark each
    and every single day.   We very rarely ever see that anymore and
    it's sad to know it's gone.
    
    Your years with the Reds were special indeed.  You were a true
    home-town hero.  However, it was your arrival and your stay in
    Philadelphia that was so special to me.  I was so happy and excited
    when you signed with the Phillies and I got a shiver up my back when
    you promised a World Series ring for us.
    
    And then you delivered it.  You were the heart and soul, the flame
    and the fury behind that incredible, magical, glorious year of 1980. 
    From the final September pennant drive, through the emotionally
    draining NLCS against the Astros where you added Bruce Bochy's name
    next to Ray Fosse's, and through the wonderful World Series triumph
    over the Royals, you were the one.  You did it.  And I cried and I
    praised your name.
    
    And now this.  I don't want to come to any false conclusions, Pete. 
    I don't know whether you did it or not.  I don't care.  All I can do
    is offer a simple, honest, and helpful suggestion.
    
    Go to Williamsport, Pete.  Go there every August and watch the
    Little League World Series.  I wish you were there this past weekend
    watching those incredible youngsters from Trumbull, Connecticut beat
    the heavily-favored Chinese team.
    
    You should have been there, Pete.  Many of your critics claim that
    you never grew up and that you're still a little boy struggling to
    live in an adult world.  Well, Pete, that may be true.   If it is,
    go to Williamsport, Pete.  Go there and clean your mind.  Breathe
    that wonderfully fresh air.   If you're still a kid, Pete, go back
    there and learn all over again how to be a *REAL* kid, Pete.
    
    I want you to watch the videotapes of that Trumbull team, Pete.  I
    want you to watch the fire in pitcher Chris Drury's eyes as he faced
    the Taiwan juggernaut.  I want you to watch the catcher, Cody Lee,
    tag out the runner at home, come up badly limping, and still stay in
    the game.  He didn't even know the proper technique for issuing an
    intentional walk, Pete.  Yet he held on to the ball to stop the run.
    
    I want you to watch the big first baseman, Ken Martin, slug that
    home run in the 5th inning.  Did you see his home run trot, Pete ??? 
    He was great.  A nice, casual, matter-of-fact trot around the bases. 
    As if hitting a home run on national TV against the Chinese in the
    bottom of the 5th inning was the most casual thing in the world. 
    I'd have wet my pants if I hit that one, Pete.
    
    And did you see the joyful pileup on the mound after the final out,
    Pete ???  Wasn't that wonderful ???  Didn't it make you feel young
    and alive again, Pete ???
    
    You know who those kids reminded me of, Pete ???
    
    They were *you*, Pete.  Every single one of them was a miniature
    Peter Edward Rose.  They were beautiful, weren't they ???
    
    Go to Williamsport, Pete.  Go there next year, Pete.   Go there
    every year, Pete.  Please go there, Pete.  

    Please ???
    
    Your friend and fan,
    
    Bob Hunt
    

    
    
    Re 30
    
      I meant no disrespect to out "beloved" moderator but his "writing
      talent"  could definitely improve the Globe's sports section.
    
      On a side note, I have it from a reputable source that HOF pitcher
      Bob Gibson has very little respect for our moderator.  8^)
    
      Jeff
      

    re 32
    
    Thanks, John. I do record every transaction, and I reported all $400 to
    the government last year. Won't catch me sharing a cell with Pete. Nor
    a cab with Mr. Mint.
    
    Dr. W.

    Get this, all you rose pluckers: I read yesterday that Pete got a month
    (?) off his sentence by reporting early. Also, he doesn't have to eat
    in the mess hall with the rest of the white-collar cons; he gets to eat
    in his room (room, not a cell!). Ditto for TV. But best of all, he
    doesn't have to make his own bed or clean up his room. Wonder if he
    tips the chambermaid? This was in the Boston Herald.

    Former baseball great Pete Rose has been given a job in the machine
    shop at the U.S. penitentiary at Marion Ill. the prison warden said.
    An assistant warden said Rose is making .11 cents a day. Warden
    Clark denied reports that Rose is receiving preferential treatment
    and he also denied a report Rose had cut a deal to trim his five
    month prison sentence.
    
    Boston Herald
    Ken

    Ken, was the warden's denial in TODAY's Herald?
    
    Rick
    

    
       When will he be eligable for Parole? :-)

    Mr. Pete will be out for X-mass, to be with his wife and family.  Its
    hard on the family not having Petey around, to take out the trash and
    feed the dog, wash the Rolls, all those things a good husband does for
    the wifey and family.  Pete's a GOOD family man, and deserves to get
    off early for good behavior.  He has even joined the convicts softball
    team and is a player/manager.  There is no side betting in prison, on 
    any of the games.  I believe there will be convict baseball cards made
    up with all the players, which will be issued just before spring
    training in 1991.  Pete should be commended for handling this
    unfortunate situation so well, with no disruptions, of the prison
    inmates.  Good job Pete!  Hurry back to baseball, we all missed you.
    The Reds have never been the same. Cinnci wants you HOME for Christmas.