[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference rusure::math

Title:Mathematics at DEC
Moderator:RUSURE::EDP
Created:Mon Feb 03 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2083
Total number of notes:14613

1025.0. "a prime between powers of 2" by COOKIE::MURALI () Wed Feb 08 1989 20:41

    Is it possible to show that there always exists at least one prime
    number between any two successive powers of 2?
    In other words, does there exists a prime p
    such that 2^n < p < 2^(n+1), for all n > 0.
    
    Murali.
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
1025.1AITG::DERAMODaniel V. {AITG,ZFC}:: D'EramoWed Feb 08 1989 22:344
     Yes.  See note 804.*  You can even fill in the details of the
     proof! :-)
     
     Dan
1025.2what consecutive powers of 2 have ONE prime between them?HANNAH::OSMANtype hannah::hogan$:[osman]eric.vt240Wed Feb 15 1989 17:0615
	Brings up an interesting question.  Between 2 and 4 is only
	one prime, namely 3.

	Between 4 and 8 is TWO primes, 5 and 7.

	Between 8 and 16 are TWO primes again, 11 and 13.

	Between 16 and 32 are FIVE primes, 17,19,23,29,31.

	Can "we" prove that never again will we see two adjacent powers
	of 2 that only have ONE prime between them ?  (or can we
	find a case other than 2,4 in which it's true ?

/Eric
1025.3not a proof ...SATIRE::KOSTASHe is great who confers the most benefits.Wed Feb 15 1989 19:1812
    re. .-1
    
    Eric, the sequence looks like: 

    { 2, 2, 2, 5, 7, 13, 23, 43, 75, 137, 255, 464, 872, 1612, 3030, ... }
      
    where 3030 is the number of primes between 2^15 and 2^16
    
    /Kostas
    
    
1025.4AITG::DERAMODaniel V. {AITG,ZFC}:: D'EramoWed Feb 15 1989 23:0614
     The number of primes grows too fast, with

          pi(x) = the number of primes <= x

     satisfying
                               x
          lim     pi(x)   =  ------
         x -> oo              ln x

     The number of primes strictly between 2^n and 2^(n+1) for n > 1
     is then pi(2^(n+1)) - pi(2^n) and this almost doubles with each
     next n.

     Dan
1025.5POOL::HALLYBAsk Dan about Carmichael numbersThu Feb 16 1989 12:2414
    Unfortunately the formula
    
                             x
               pi(x)   =  ------
                           ln x

    is only an estimate; I don't know of any error bounds.  Until we can
    get a minumum guaranteed value, we'll never know for sure...it may be
    that somewhere "out there" there are 2^N-1 composite numbers between
    2^N and 2^(N+1).
    
    Does anybody know a nontrivial formula for the minimum number of primes < N?
    
      John
1025.6AITG::DERAMODaniel V. {AITG,ZFC}:: D'EramoThu Feb 16 1989 12:4237
     re .5

>>    Unfortunately the formula
>>    
>>                             x
>>               pi(x)   =  ------
>>                           ln x
>>
>>    is only an estimate; I don't know of any error bounds.  Until we can

     When I read that, I thought to myself, I can't believe I said it was "=".
     Looking again at .4:

>>                                x
>>          lim     pi(x)   =  ------
>>         x -> oo              ln x

     Which is rather meaningless, but at least I didn't say they were equal.
     A proper way to phrase the result would be

                     pi(x)
          lim       --------  = 1
         x -> oo    x / ln x

     Yes, it is not exact, but it means that for epsilon > 0 no matter how
     small there is an A (which depends on epsilon) such that for all x > A,

          |   pi(x)       |
          | --------  - 1 | < epsilon
          |  x / ln x     |

     So one can pick an epsilon and determine a bound above which there will
     always be at least two primes between 2^n and 2^(n+1).  Then one need
     only check the finitely many cases below the bound.

     Dan

1025.7Then, sir, I challenge thee (for a cookie)POOL::HALLYBAsk Carmichael about Dan numbersThu Feb 16 1989 14:1712
    Excuse my fast and loose usage of the equal sign in the same sentence
    with the word "estimate".
    
>          |   pi(x)       |
>          | --------  - 1 | < epsilon
>          |  x / ln x     |

    This is of course the proper definition.  But I'm not sure it makes the
    solution any easier.  Dan, I pick epsilon = 5.  What value of A makes
    the above inequality hold for all x > A?
    
      John
1025.8I wanna cookie. :-)AITG::DERAMOAsk me about Carmichael numbers.Thu Feb 16 1989 15:397
     Oops, I see now how you meant it; I had read it as correcting
     extracted text.

     Keep that cookie fresh, I will need to consult some references
     at home.

     Dan
1025.9we haven't seen a proof yetHANNAH::OSMANtype hannah::hogan$:[osman]eric.vt240Thu Feb 16 1989 16:4125
	Excuse me, folks, but no one has presented a simple proof that
	for

		2^n< p(n) < 2^(n+1)

	p(n) is always greater than 1, where "p(n)" means the number of
	primes between the two consecutive powers of 2.

	What we've seen so far are two important points:

1)	Examining the sequence of p(n), they "seem" to go up.

2)	Apparently there's some complicated number theory that says
	that x/ln(x) approaches the number of primes less than x in
	terms of percentage, as x becomes larger.

	So, either we need a proof of this complicated theory, or we
	need a simple proof that p(n) is greater than 1 for all n>1.

	The simple proof is more desirable.

	Anyone know of one ?

/Eric
1025.10Cookie gonna get stale, I think...SSDEVO::LARYOK Dan, whats a Carmichael number?Fri Feb 17 1989 00:0715
I believe that the proper relation of p(x) to x/ln(x) is looser than that;
I seem to remember it is just that

		p(x) = O(x/ln(x))

or, in other words, that there are constants c2 > c1 > 0 such that

	c1*x              c2*x
       ------  < p(x) <  -------   for all x (well, all x > 2 anyway...)
	ln(x)             ln(x)

A powerful result, but much looser than the limit in .-n

						Richie

1025.11AITG::DERAMOOk, I'll tell what a Carmichael number is.Fri Feb 17 1989 20:126
     re .10

     Nope.  I'm sure of the limit.  The looser relation is much easier
     to prove, though.

     Dan
1025.12AITG::DERAMODaniel V. {AITG,ZFC}:: D'EramoSun Feb 19 1989 03:0837
     The book I mention in note 804.0 has proofs for the
     following in its chapter XIV (problem numbers as in the
     book):
     
     10. (Chebyshev 1852) For x >= 2 and suitable positive
     constants A and B,
     
                     x                x
                  A ---- < pi(x) < B ----
                    ln x             ln x
     
     12. (Bertrand) If n >= 2 there is a prime strictly between n
     and 2n
     
     13. (Finsler)  pi(2n) - pi(n) >= 2 if n >= 6.
     
     14. (Chebyshev's theorem again)
     
                 1   x                x
                 -- ---- < pi(x) < 4 ----
                 12 ln x             ln x
     
     re .7
     
>>    This is of course the proper definition.  But I'm not sure it makes the
>>    solution any easier.  Dan, I pick epsilon = 5.  What value of A makes
>>    the above inequality hold for all x > A?
     
     According to 10 and 14, for epsilon = 5 you may use A = 2.
     
     re Eric's question, the result in problem 13 covers it.
     
     So there are proofs for these things, each proof is probably
     roughly the length of the one in notes 804.*.  How much
     demand is there for typing them in?
     
     Dan
1025.13AITG::DERAMODaniel V. {AITG,ZFC}:: D'EramoSun Mar 05 1989 21:17159
Let n be a positive integer >= 2, p be a positive integer prime,
and x a positive real number >= 2.  The number of primes <= x is
usually written with the pi symbol, so let pi(x) be the number of
primes <= x.  Let C(n,m) = n!/(m!(n-m)!) be that binomial coefficient.
Let [y] be the least integer <= y for any real number y.  Let
t(x,p) be the largest integral power of p <= x, so that
t(x,p) = [ln x / ln p] and also p^t(x,p) <= x < p^(1+t(x,p)).

A) 2^n < C(2n,n) < 2^2n

     Proof:

     C(2n,n) = (2n)!/(n!)^2
             = (2n * ... * 2)(2n-1 * ... * 1)/(n!)^2
             = (2n * ... * 2)/n! * (2n-1 * ... * 1)/(n * ... * 1)
             = 2^n * (2n-1)/n * ... * 1/1

     This shows C(2n,n) is 2^n times a product of n >= 2 terms
     all of which, except for the last, are > 1 and the last is = 1.
     Therefore C(2n,n) > 2^n.

     It also shows C(2n,n) is 2^n times a product of n >= 2 terms
     all of which are < 2.  Therefore C(2n,n) < 2^n * 2^n = 2^2n.

B) [2y] - 2[y] is 0 or 1 for all reals y

C) The number of times the prime p divides n! is given by the
   sum of one for each of the [n/p] multiples of p <= n, plus
   one more for each of the [n/p^2] of those which are actually
   multiples of p^2, plus one more for each of the [n/p^3] of
   *those* which are actually multiple of p^3, plus ....  This
   infinite sum is really a finite sum because the terms for
   exponents greater than t(n,p) are all zero.  This sum is
   sum(m=1,...,oo) [n/p^m] = sum(m=1,...,t(n,p)) [n/p^m].

D) The number of times the prime p divides C(2n,n) [adding for
   the numerator and subtracting for the denominator] is therefore
   sum(m=1,...,oo) ([2n/p^m] - 2[n/p^m]) = 
   sum(m=1,...,t(2n,p)) ([2n/p^m] - 2[n/p^m]) by part (C).  By
   part (B) this is a sum of t(2n,p) terms each of which is 0 or 1
   and so 0 <= the number of times the prime p divides C(2n,n) <= t(2n,p).
   [digression:  therefore C(2n,n) is an integer]

E) The least common multiple of the numbers 1,...,n is the
   product over all primes p of p^t(n,p).  This infinite product
   is really a finite product as all of the terms for p > n are
   equal to 1.

F) By parts (D) and (E), C(2n,n) divides evenly into lcm({1,...,2n})
   and so C(2n,n) <= lcm({1,...,2n}) = prod(p <= 2n) p^t(2n,p).

G) By parts (A) and (F) 2^n < C(2n,n) <= prod(p <= 2n) p^t(2n,p).
   The product on the right has pi(2n) terms, each of which is <= 2n.
   Therefore 2^n < (2n)^pi(2n) and so n ln 2 < pi(2n) ln 2n and
   pi(2n) > (n ln 2) / ln 2n or pi(2n) > ((1/2)ln 2) 2n/ln 2n

H) By part (G) there exists a positive real number A such that
   pi(x) > A x/ln x for all x >= 2.

     Proof:

     To go from (G) to (H) seems easy enough, ((1/2)ln 2) almost
     works for A, except for the small difference between x/ln x
     and 2n/ln 2n.  The following just grinds through to show
     you only have to divide by 2 at most.

     Note that x/ln x decreases as x grows from 2 to e, reaches
     its minimum for x >= 2 at x = e, then increases as x
     increases for x > e, not reaching as high as it does for x=2
     until x >= 4.  For x >= e (i.e., in the increasing range)
     (x+1)/ln (x+1) < (x+1)/ln x = x/ln x + 1/ln x and so
     increasing x by 1 increases x/ln x by less than 1/ln x <= 1.

     Let x >= 4,  and let the positive integer n be such that
     2n <= x < 2(n+1), i.e., n <= [x/2].  x >= 4 so x/2 >= 2
     so [x/2] >= 2 so n >= 2 and therefore (G) applies.

     Thus pi(x) >= pi(2n) > ((1/2)ln 2) 2n/ln 2n.  But
     x/ln x <= x/ln 2n = 2n/ln 2n + (x-2n)/ln 2n < 2n/ln 2n + 2/ln 2n.
     <=  2n/ln 2n + 2/ln 4.

     So 2n/ln 2n > x/ln x - 2/ln 4 and therefore
     pi(x) > ((1/2)ln 2) (x/ln x - 2/ln 4).  For x >= 4, x/ln x
     always is >= 4/ln 4 and so -4/ln 4 >= - x/ln x, or
     -2/ln 4 >= - (1/2) x/ln x, so x/ln x - 2/ln 4 >= (1/2) x/ln x.
     Thus pi(x) > ((1/2)ln 2) (1/2) x/ln x = ((1/4)ln 2) x/ln x.

     If 2 <= x <= 4, then pi(x) is 1 or 2 and x/ln x <= 2/ln 2
     so there is an A1 such that pi(x) > A1 x/ln x; just let
     A1 < (1/2)ln 2 and then A1 x / ln x < 1 < pi(x).

     Now let A be the minimum of (1/4)ln 2 and A1.  A = (1/4)ln 2
     works, and for all x >= 2, pi(x) > A x/ln x.

I) prod(n < p <= 2n) p divides C(2n,n), because each such prime p
   occurs once in the numerator and not at all in the denominator.

J) By (A) and (I), prod(n < p <= 2n) p <= C(2n,n) < 2^2n and so
   sum(n < p <= 2n) ln p < 2n ln 2.  Therefore
   sum(p <= 2n) ln p <= 2n ln 2 + sum(p <= n) ln p.

K) sum(p <= x) ln p >= sum(sqrt(x) < p <= x) ln p
                    >= sum(sqrt(x) < p <= x) ln sqrt(x)
                    = sum(sqrt(x) < p <= x) (1/2)ln x
                    >= (1/2) (pi(x) - sqrt(x)) ln x

   where the last inequality holds because of the pi(x) primes p <= x,
   certainly at most sqrt(x) of them are <= sqrt(x).

L) By part (K), pi(x) <= sqrt(x) + (2 / ln x) sum(p <= x) ln p

M) sum(p <= 2^k) ln p < 2^(k+1) for all positive integers k

     Proof by induction:  For k = 1 this is ln 2 < 4 and is true.
     Assume the statement is true for k = 1,...,m and try to
     prove it true for k = m+1.

     By (J) sum(p <= 2n) ln p <= 2n ln 2 + sum(p <= n) ln p.
     So sum(p <= 2^(m+1)) ln p = sum(p <= 2 * 2^m) ln p
                               <= 2^(m+1) ln 2 + sum(p <= 2^m) ln p
     By the inductive hypothesis sum(p <= 2^m) ln p < 2^(m+1)
     Therefore, sum(p <= 2^(m+1)) < 2^(m+1) ln 2 + 2^(m+1)
                                  = 2^(m+1) * (1 + ln 2)
                                  < 2^(m+1) * 2 = 2^((m+1)+1)
     and so (M) is true for all positive integers k by induction

N) Let x be any real >= 2.  Let k = t(x,2) = [ln x / ln 2] so that
   2^k <= x < 2^(k+1).  Then sum(p <= x) ln p <= sum(p <= 2^(k+1)) ln p
   which by (M) is less than 2^(k+2) so sum(p <= x) ln p < 2^(k+2).
   But 2^k <= x so 2^(k+2) <= 4x therefore sum(p <= x) < 4x.

O) By (L) pi(x) <= sqrt(x) + (2 / ln x) sum(p <= x) ln p and so
   by (N)  pi(x) < sqrt(x) + (2 / ln x) 4x.  Therefore there
   exists a positive real number B such that pi(x) < B x/ln x for
   all x >= 2.

     Proof:

     We have pi(x) < sqrt(x) + 8 x/ln x for x >= 2.
     Let C be such that sqrt(x) < C x/ln x for all x >= 2.
     Then pi(x) < B x/ln x for B = 8 + C.  I think C = 1
     already works which gives 9 for B.  This is not a particularly
     tight bound.

P) (Chebyshev, 1852)  There exists positive real constants A and B
   such that for all real x >= 2

                  x                x
               A ---- < pi(x) < B ----
                 ln x             ln x

     Errors, if any, are mine, not Chebyshev's.

     He also proved that if the limit as x -> oo of pi(x) / (x/ln x)
     exists, then that limit must be 1.  That proof isn't much more
     involved than this one.  The hard part is to show that the limit
     does exist.

     Dan