[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference rusure::math

Title:Mathematics at DEC
Moderator:RUSURE::EDP
Created:Mon Feb 03 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2083
Total number of notes:14613

525.0. "<><><> Palindromic Numbers <><><>" by THEBUS::KOSTAS (Kostas G. Gavrielidis &lt;o.o&gt; ) Fri Jun 27 1986 02:28

    Hello,
    
         This note will contain information and problems related to
    palindromic numbers.
    
    Def. A palindromic number is a positive integer that reads 
         the same from right to left as from left to right.
    
         Example 1: The first eleven palindromic numbers
                    are: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 22.
    
         Example 2: Other palindromic numbers are 232, 1991, 2340432.
    
    
    If you add any positive integer to the integer formed by reversing
    the digits, then do the same thing with the sum, and keep repeating,
    you will eventually reach a sum that is palindromic.
     
         Example 3: 51 reaches a palindromic sum after one step
                    since  51 + 15 = 66.
    

         Example 4: 59 reaches a palindromic sum after three steps
                    since  59 + 95 = 154, 154 + 451 = 605, 
                    605 + 506 = 1111.
    
    
    Problems.
    ---------
    
         Problem 1: Find an integer other than  89  that requires  24
                    steps to reach a palindromic sum.
    
         Problem 2: Find 2 integers that require  23  steps to reach
                    a palindromic sum.
    
         Problem 3: Find an integer other than  196  which fails to
                    reach a palindromic sum in  100  steps.
    
         Problem 4: Show that no integer can reach a palindromic sum
                    of  111.
    
         Problem 5: What are the palindromic primes less than 10,000.
    
         Problem 6: Show that there are no four-digit palindromic primes.
    
         Problem 7: How many integers less than 10,000 which do not reach
                    palindromic sums in  100  or fewer steps. List them
                    all.
    
         Problem 8: Explain how one can establish that the integer 196
                    does not reach a palindromic sum within 1,000 steps.
    
    Enjoy,
    
    Kostas G.
    <><><><><>
    
    

T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
525.1CLT::GILBERTJuggler of NoterdomFri Jun 27 1986 05:245
>    If you add any positive integer to the integer formed by reversing
>    the digits, then do the same thing with the sum, and keep repeating,
>    you will eventually reach a sum that is palindromic.

Really??  Lynn should be able to comment on this.
525.2re. .1 Not allways...THEBUS::KOSTASKostas G. Gavrielidis &lt;o.o&gt; Fri Jun 27 1986 12:579
    re. .1
    
    Well, 
    
        this does not work allways as you can tell by some of the problems
    listed in .0. 
    

    Kostas G.
525.3AURORA::HALLYBFree the quarks!Fri Jun 27 1986 13:562
    I believe you \can/ disprove the "eventually palindromic" hypothesis
    for binary arithmetic.  I think the problem is still open for decimal.
525.4CLT::GILBERTJuggler of NoterdomSun Jun 29 1986 07:1710
Can we prove that for numbers > 4 digits in length, the first palindromic
number never occurs as a result of a 'carry' (that is, when the number
grows another digit in length).


Is it possible to construct a number of the form:
		 def000000ghi000000jkl
that evolves to:
	abc000000def000000ghi000000jkl000000mno
such that we can assert that the number never becomes palindromic?
525.5Base 2 numbers which do not reach palindromes ...THEBUS::KOSTASKostas G. Gavrielidis &lt;o.o&gt; Wed Jul 09 1986 13:1114
    re. .3
    
    Yes, in base 2, it is not difficult to contruct integers which do
    not reach palindromes. Here is a such an integer   10110 .
    
    For more details on this consult the book:
    
               Recreation in Mathematics, by R. P. Sprague
               (London: Blackie and Son, Ltd., 1963)

    Enjoy,
    
    Kostas G.
    
525.6solution to problem 1 of .0THEBUS::KOSTASKostas G. Gavrielidis &lt;o.o&gt; Wed Jul 09 1986 13:5119
    re. .0
    
    Solution to problem 1.
    
    >    Problem 1: Find an integer other than  89  that requires  24
    >               steps to reach a palindromic sum.
    
    If an integer  n  reaches a palindromic sum in  m  steps,
    then the integer formed by reversing the digits of  n  also
    reaches a palindromic sum in  m  steps. (Why?).
    
    So  98  reaches a palindromic sum in  24  steps.
    
    Enjoy,
    
    Kostas G.
    
    
    
525.7solution to problem 5 of .0 by CALREALTHEBUS::KOSTASKostas G. Gavrielidis &lt;o.o&gt; Sat Jul 12 1986 02:5222
re. .0

Solution to Problem 5 of .0 by CALReal

    >
    > Problem 5: What are the palindromic primes less than 10,000.
    >


CALREAL> palindromic primes up to ( 1000 );

            2            3            5            7           11          101
          131          151          181          191          313          353
          373          383          727          757          787          797
          919          929  
   There were: 20  palindromic prime(s)
  

Enjoy,

Kostas G.

525.8CLT::GILBERT$ no /nono vaxnotesSat Jul 12 1986 14:2612
And there are 93 5-digit palindromic primes.

	10301,10501,10601,11311,11411,12421,12721,12821,13331,13831
	13931,14341,14741,15451,15551,16061,16361,16561,16661,17471
	17971,18181,18481,19391,19891,19991,30103,30203,30403,30703
	30803,31013,31513,32323,32423,33533,34543,34843,35053,35153
	35353,35753,36263,36563,37273,37573,38083,38183,38783,39293
	70207,70507,70607,71317,71917,72227,72727,73037,73237,73637
	74047,74747,75557,76367,76667,77377,77477,77977,78487,78787
	78887,79397,79697,79997,90709,91019,93139,93239,93739,94049
	94349,94649,94849,94949,95959,96269,96469,96769,97379,97579
	97879,98389,98689
525.9CTRL/ZAURORA::HALLYBFree the quarks!Mon Jul 14 1986 16:401
    Does anybody have a badge number that is a palindromic prime?
525.10I know but I'm not telling.MODEL::YARBROUGHMon Jul 14 1986 18:172
    Aside from Ken Olsen's no. 1, yes, there are palindromic prime badge
    numbers currently active. It is inappropriate to list any here.
525.11there are 781 palindomic primes < than 10,000,000THEBUS::KOSTASKostas G. Gavrielidis &lt;o.o&gt; Tue Jul 15 1986 12:34144
Well,

   There are  781  palindromic primes less than 10,000,000


CALREAL> palindromic primes up to ( 10000000 );

            2            3            5            7           11          101
          131          151          181          191          313          353
          373          383          727          757          787          797
          919          929        10301        10501        10601        11311
        11411        12421        12721        12821        13331        13831
        13931        14341        14741        15451        15551        16061
        16361        16561        16661        17471        17971        18181
        18481        19391        19891        19991        30103        30203
        30403        30703        30803        31013        31513        32323
        32423        33533        34543        34843        35053        35153
        35353        35753        36263        36563        37273        37573
        38083        38183        38783        39293        70207        70507
        70607        71317        71917        72227        72727        73037
        73237        73637        74047        74747        75557        76367
        76667        77377        77477        77977        78487        78787
        78887        79397        79697        79997        90709        91019
        93139        93239        93739        94049        94349        94649
        94849        94949        95959        96269        96469        96769
        97379        97579        97879        98389        98689      1003001
      1008001      1022201      1028201      1035301      1043401      1055501
      1062601      1065601      1074701      1082801      1085801      1092901
      1093901      1114111      1117111      1120211      1123211      1126211
      1129211      1134311      1145411      1150511      1153511      1160611
      1163611      1175711      1177711      1178711      1180811      1183811
      1186811      1190911      1193911      1196911      1201021      1208021
      1212121      1215121      1218121      1221221      1235321      1242421
      1243421      1245421      1250521      1253521      1257521      1262621
      1268621      1273721      1276721      1278721      1280821      1281821
      1286821      1287821      1300031      1303031      1311131      1317131
      1327231      1328231      1333331      1335331      1338331      1343431
      1360631      1362631      1363631      1371731      1374731      1390931
      1407041      1409041      1411141      1412141      1422241      1437341
      1444441      1447441      1452541      1456541      1461641      1463641
      1464641      1469641      1486841      1489841      1490941      1496941
      1508051      1513151      1520251      1532351      1535351      1542451
      1548451      1550551      1551551      1556551      1557551      1565651
      1572751      1579751      1580851      1583851      1589851      1594951
      1597951      1598951      1600061      1609061      1611161      1616161
      1628261      1630361      1633361      1640461      1643461      1646461
      1654561      1657561      1658561      1660661      1670761      1684861
      1685861      1688861      1695961      1703071      1707071      1712171
      1714171      1730371      1734371      1737371      1748471      1755571
      1761671      1764671      1777771      1793971      1802081      1805081
      1820281      1823281      1824281      1826281      1829281      1831381
      1832381      1842481      1851581      1853581      1856581      1865681
      1876781      1878781      1879781      1880881      1881881      1883881
      1884881      1895981      1903091      1908091      1909091      1917191
      1924291      1930391      1936391      1941491      1951591      1952591
      1957591      1958591      1963691      1968691      1969691      1970791
      1976791      1981891      1982891      1984891      1987891      1988891
      1993991      1995991      1998991      3001003      3002003      3007003
      3016103      3026203      3064603      3065603      3072703      3073703
      3075703      3083803      3089803      3091903      3095903      3103013
      3106013      3127213      3135313      3140413      3155513      3158513
      3160613      3166613      3181813      3187813      3193913      3196913
      3198913      3211123      3212123      3218123      3222223      3223223
      3228223      3233323      3236323      3241423      3245423      3252523
      3256523      3258523      3260623      3267623      3272723      3283823
      3285823      3286823      3288823      3291923      3293923      3304033
      3305033      3307033      3310133      3315133      3319133      3321233
      3329233      3331333      3337333      3343433      3353533      3362633
      3364633      3365633      3368633      3380833      3391933      3392933
      3400043      3411143      3417143      3424243      3425243      3427243
      3439343      3441443      3443443      3444443      3447443      3449443
      3452543      3460643      3466643      3470743      3479743      3485843
      3487843      3503053      3515153      3517153      3528253      3541453
      3553553      3558553      3563653      3569653      3586853      3589853
      3590953      3591953      3594953      3601063      3607063      3618163
      3621263      3627263      3635363      3643463      3646463      3670763
      3673763      3680863      3689863      3698963      3708073      3709073
      3716173      3717173      3721273      3722273      3728273      3732373
      3743473      3746473      3762673      3763673      3765673      3768673
      3769673      3773773      3774773      3781873      3784873      3792973
      3793973      3799973      3804083      3806083      3812183      3814183
      3826283      3829283      3836383      3842483      3853583      3858583
      3863683      3864683      3867683      3869683      3871783      3878783
      3893983      3899983      3913193      3916193      3918193      3924293
      3927293      3931393      3938393      3942493      3946493      3948493
      3964693      3970793      3983893      3991993      3994993      3997993
      3998993      7014107      7035307      7036307      7041407      7046407
      7057507      7065607      7069607      7073707      7079707      7082807
      7084807      7087807      7093907      7096907      7100017      7114117
      7115117      7118117      7129217      7134317      7136317      7141417
      7145417      7155517      7156517      7158517      7159517      7177717
      7190917      7194917      7215127      7226227      7246427      7249427
      7250527      7256527      7257527      7261627      7267627      7276727
      7278727      7291927      7300037      7302037      7310137      7314137
      7324237      7327237      7347437      7352537      7354537      7362637
      7365637      7381837      7388837      7392937      7401047      7403047
      7409047      7415147      7434347      7436347      7439347      7452547
      7461647      7466647      7472747      7475747      7485847      7486847
      7489847      7493947      7507057      7508057      7518157      7519157
      7521257      7527257      7540457      7562657      7564657      7576757
      7586857      7592957      7594957      7600067      7611167      7619167
      7622267      7630367      7632367      7644467      7654567      7662667
      7665667      7666667      7668667      7669667      7674767      7681867
      7690967      7693967      7696967      7715177      7718177      7722277
      7729277      7733377      7742477      7747477      7750577      7758577
      7764677      7772777      7774777      7778777      7782877      7783877
      7791977      7794977      7807087      7819187      7820287      7821287
      7831387      7832387      7838387      7843487      7850587      7856587
      7865687      7867687      7868687      7873787      7884887      7891987
      7897987      7913197      7916197      7930397      7933397      7935397
      7938397      7941497      7943497      7949497      7957597      7958597
      7960697      7977797      7984897      7985897      7987897      7996997
      9002009      9015109      9024209      9037309      9042409      9043409
      9045409      9046409      9049409      9067609      9073709      9076709
      9078709      9091909      9095909      9103019      9109019      9110119
      9127219      9128219      9136319      9149419      9169619      9173719
      9174719      9179719      9185819      9196919      9199919      9200029
      9209029      9212129      9217129      9222229      9223229      9230329
      9231329      9255529      9269629      9271729      9277729      9280829
      9286829      9289829      9318139      9320239      9324239      9329239
      9332339      9338339      9351539      9357539      9375739      9384839
      9397939      9400049      9414149      9419149      9433349      9439349
      9440449      9446449      9451549      9470749      9477749      9492949
      9493949      9495949      9504059      9514159      9526259      9529259
      9547459      9556559      9558559      9561659      9577759      9583859
      9585859      9586859      9601069      9602069      9604069      9610169
      9620269      9624269      9626269      9632369      9634369      9645469
      9650569      9657569      9670769      9686869      9700079      9709079
      9711179      9714179      9724279      9727279      9732379      9733379
      9743479      9749479      9752579      9754579      9758579      9762679
      9770779      9776779      9779779      9781879      9782879      9787879
      9788879      9795979      9801089      9807089      9809089      9817189
      9818189      9820289      9822289      9836389      9837389      9845489
      9852589      9871789      9888889      9889889      9896989      9902099
      9907099      9908099      9916199      9918199      9919199      9921299
      9923299      9926299      9927299      9931399      9932399      9935399
      9938399      9957599      9965699      9978799      9980899      9981899
      9989899  

   There were: 781  palindromic prime(s)
  
Enjoy,

Kostas G.
525.12F10AURORA::HALLYBFree the quarks!Tue Jul 15 1986 14:2621
    Regarding palindromic prime badge numbers -- one doesn't have to
    associate a name with the badge ("that would be telling").
    
    [1] What's the smallest palindromic prime active badge number?
    	Hint: 1 is _not_ _prime_.
    
    [2] What's the largest?
    
    I don't know the answers to [1] or [2], though some reader might.
    Notice that there are no 6-digit candidates, so the lucky owner
    of badge 98689 (if still employed) would be the winner here.
    
    In fact, aside from 11 there are no palindromic primes with an even
    number of digits in any of the lists given thus far.
    
    [3] Prove there is only one palindromic prime containing an even
	number of digits, base 10.
    
    Will the "pros" please lay off this one, let some new blood try.
    
    [4] How does [3] extend to other number bases?
525.13New bloodGNERIC::QUAYLETue Jul 15 1986 18:0915
    Suppose there is a palindromic prime with 2n digits, call it p.
    
    Since p is a palindromic number with an even number of digits, the
    digit at position i is the same as the digit at position 2n+1-i,
    where i ranges from 1<->n.  
    
    i and 2n+1-i always have opposite parity.
    
    .: for a palindromic number with an even number of digits,
       (sum of digits in odd positions) = (sum of digits in even pos.)
       since i and 2n+1-i will always never be in the same summation.
       They will always go in opposite summations and cancel each other.
    
    .: Every palindromic number with an even number of digits is divisible
       by 11, so cannot be prime.
525.14largest prime palindromic badge no.MODEL::YARBROUGHWed Jul 16 1986 12:221
    Badge 98689 is currently active.
525.15A sniglet...MODEL::YARBROUGHWed Jul 16 1986 12:241
    Aibohphobia : fear of palindromes.
525.16re. .0 solution to problem 6 in .0THEBUS::KOSTASKostas G. Gavrielidis &lt;o.o&gt; Wed Jul 16 1986 14:0022
    re. .0
    
    solution to the problem 6 in .0
    
       > Problem 6: Show that there are no four-digit palindromic primes.

    
       Any four-digit palindrome can be expressed in the form
    
            a + 10b + 100b + 1000a  =  11 ( 91a +10b )
    
            where  a >= 0  and  b >= 0 are integers.
    
       Hense, 11 divides every four-digit palindrome.

       This proof is easily extented to show that every palindrome having
       an even number of digits is divisible by  11.
    
    Enjoy,
    
    Kostas G.
    
525.17not the largest, probablyOBLIO::SHUSTERRed Sox Addition: 1986 = 1975 + 1Wed Jul 16 1986 15:158

>    Badge 98689 is currently active.


So are plenty of badges with six digits.

-Rob
525.18Look again.CLOUD::SHIRRONStephen F. Shirron, 223-3198Wed Jul 16 1986 16:076
    Re .17:
    
    Apparently you failed to notice that there are NO six digit palendromic
    primes.  And there are not yet any seven digit badge numbers.
    
    stephen
525.19re. .15THEBUS::KOSTASKostas G. Gavrielidis &lt;o.o&gt; Fri Jul 18 1986 17:3711
    re. .15
    
    >  Aibohphobia : fear of palindromes.
    
    Hm!
    
    I thought this may be more appropriate
    
       PalindromicimordnilaPhobia 
    
    
525.20I'll cast a voteCACHE::MARSHALLbeware the fractal dragonFri Jul 18 1986 19:586
    
    I kinda like Aibohphobia
    although anyone with this problem would have a hard time 
    hearing the psychiatrist tell them the name of their condition  :-)
    
    sm
525.21Hm!THEBUS::KOSTASKostas G. Gavrielidis &lt;o.o&gt; Fri Jul 18 1986 20:269
    re. .20
    
        ok then if  Aibohphobia  is to mean fear (phobia) of palindomes

        what will then fear of fear be?              phobiaphobia ?

        and what will then fear of reverse fear be?  phobiaibohp ?
    
    
525.22raef|fearCACHE::MARSHALLbeware the fractal dragonMon Jul 21 1986 15:0912
    re .21:
    
    > fear of fear: phobiaphobia
    
    sounds good to me.
    
    > fear of reverse fear: phobiaibohp
    
    reverse fear? I assume you don't mean the antonym of "fear" {phobia}.
    
    
    sm
525.23CLT::GILBERTWas Winston Churchill a phobiaphobiac?Mon Jul 21 1986 16:020
525.24ERIS::CALLASJon CallasMon Jul 21 1986 19:373
    The fear of fear is phobophobia.
    
    	Jon
525.25To paraphrase FDR,AURORA::HALLYBFree the quarks!Mon Jul 21 1986 20:541
    "Our only problem is phobophobia."    
525.26CLT::GILBERTeager like a childMon Aug 11 1986 18:251
See also the Frank and Ernest comic strip in Sunday's Nashua Telegraph.
525.27196? There's something wrong with that number!ZFC::DERAMODaniel V. D'EramoWed Nov 25 1987 15:2415
    Re: .0
    
>>    Problem 8: Explain how one can establish that the integer 196
>>               does not reach a palindromic sum within 1,000 steps.
    
    [Where a "step" consists of reversing the digits of a number and
    then adding that to the original number.]
    
    I submitted a background job running at priority one that has
    already gone 5000 steps starting with 196 without reaching a
    palindrome.
    
    Presumably the author of .0 was looking for a more clever solution!
    
    Dan
525.28CLT::GILBERTBuilderWed Nov 25 1987 20:5923
If an addition that increases the length of the number results in a palindrome,
then each of the digits in the palindrome is either 0, 1, or 2.

Suppose the addition is:

	c[n+1]	c[n]  c[n-1]  ...  c[ 1 ]  c[0]
		x[n]  x[n-1]  ...  x[ 1 ]  x[0]
	+	x[0]  x[ 1 ]  ...  x[n-1]  x[n]
	---------------------------------------
	y[n+1]  y[n]  y[n-1]  ...  y[ 1 ]  y[0]

Where the 'c's are carries.  We are given that c[0] = 0, and c[n+1] = 1,
and y[i] = y[n+1-i].  Also, x[i] + x[n-i] + c[i] = 10*c[i+1] + y[i], so that:

	x[(n-i)] + x[n-(n-i)] + c[(n-i)] = 10*c[(n-i)+1] + y[(n-i)]
   =>	x[n-i] + x[i] + c[n-i] = 10*c[n+1-i] + y[n-i]
   =>	x[i] + x[n-i] = 10*c[n+1-i] - c[n-i] + y[n-i]
   =>	x[i] + x[n-i] = 10*c[n+1-i] - c[n-i] + y[i+1]
		      = 10*c[i+1] - c[i] + y[i], 
   =>	y[i+1] = 10*(c[i+1] - c[n+1-i]) + c[n-i] - c[i] + y[i]

We can use this and an induction to show that y[i] = c[i+1] + c[i], and
c[i+1] = c[n+1-i], for all i.
525.29Dan's Last Theorem?ZFC::DERAMODaniel V. D'EramoMon Nov 30 1987 15:2514
    I have discovered a truly marvelous proof that the sequence of
    numbers generated this way starting from 196 will not cycle in
    less than N steps where N is:
    
                      17.2953...
                     e
                    e
                   e
                  e
                 e
    
    Unfortunately, the proof is too large to fit in the margin.
    
    Dan
525.30Pity Fermat didn't have NOTESSQM::HALLYBProfitus InterruptusMon Nov 30 1987 16:288
>    Unfortunately, the proof is too large to fit in the margin.

    Try "DO" SET RIGHT_MARGIN 888
    
    Also, are you sure about that 17.2953???  My calculator shows that
    SQRT(300) = 17.3205...
    
      Just wondering,
525.31CLT::GILBERTBuilderMon Nov 30 1987 20:517
The following might be used to find numbers that never yield a palindrome.

Consider the first and last K digits in the number, and look at the
digits in the sum (note that there may be a carry into the high part).
If these can't be part of a palindrome, continue the process.  Hopefully,
this tree search will always result in cycles, and never result in a
possible palindrome.
525.32Wow! Amazing!ZFC::DERAMODaniel V. D'EramoMon Nov 30 1987 21:4611
    Re .-1
    
>>    If these can't be part of a palindrome, continue the process.
>>    Hopefully, this tree search will always result in cycles, and never
>>    result in a possible palindrome.
    
    I have extended my proof to show that not just 196, but no positive
    integer with less than approx. 10^517 digits, can be the first number
    of a cycle of n -> n+reverse(n).
    
    Dan
525.33It's been done, sort of...AKQJ10::YARBROUGHWhy is computing so labor intensive?Tue Dec 01 1987 11:398
Lest anyone (else) waste an inordinate amount of computer time on the
problem, I have run the 196 case out to 75,000 cycles without forming a
palindrome. (Aren't microvaxen fun?) 

If someone wants an interesting problem in this space that is still very 
much open, check out note 95.

Lynn 
525.34Well, it seemed funny at the time.ZFC::DERAMODaniel V. D'EramoTue Dec 01 1987 21:3236
    Re: .29

>>    I have discovered a truly marvelous proof that the sequence of
>>    numbers generated this way starting from 196 will not cycle in
>>    less than N steps where N is:
    
    Re: .32

>>    I have extended my proof to show that not just 196, but no positive
>>    integer with less than approx. 10^517 digits, can be the first number
>>    of a cycle of n -> n+reverse(n).

     Okay, I can now fit the proofs in the margins. :-)

     Let n be a positive integer, and let reverse(n) be the
     number you get by writing n in base 10 and reversing the
     digits.  Define f(n) to be n+reverse(n) and consider the
     sequence n, f(n), f(f(n)), ...

              reverse(n) > 0

          n + reverse(n) > n

                    f(n) > n

     This means that n < f(n) < f(f(n)) < ... -- the sequence
     cannot cycle.

     In .29 I phrased this as no cycles starting with n=196 will
     occur in the first N steps for some outrageous N.  In .32 I
     phrased it as no cycles starting from n's with less than
     10^517 digits.  But really there are no cycles, period.  :^)
     The sequences can stop at a palindrome or they can diverge to
     positive infinity, but they will never cycle.

     Dan
525.35196: it takes a licking, and keeps on tickingAITG::DERAMODan D'Eramo, nice personSun Feb 18 1990 00:3542
>> .0      Problem 8: Explain how one can establish that the integer 196
>>                    does not reach a palindromic sum within 1,000 steps.
        
Path: shlump.nac.dec.com!decuac!haven!ames!think!samsung!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!ukc!servax0!sersun2!alan
From: alan@sersun2.essex.ac.uk (Stanier A)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Palindromic Numbers
Message-ID: <3151@servax0.essex.ac.uk>
Date: 16 Feb 90 11:40:31 GMT
References: <18429.25c8453b@merrimack.edu> <742@dbrmelb.dbrhi.oz>
Sender: news@servax0.essex.ac.uk
Reply-To: alan@essex.ac.uk
Organization: University of Essex, Colchester, UK
Lines: 27
 
In <742@dbrmelb.dbrhi.oz> davidp@dbrmelb.dbrhi.oz (David Paterson) writes:
}
}> I remember reading once about the process of forming such numbers from
}> any integer by sucessively reversing the digits of the integer and
}> adding.  For example, the number 23 is a 1-step palindrome: 23 + 32 =
}> 55.  The number 28 is a 2-step palindrome: 28 + 82 = 110; 110 + 011 =
}> 121.
}> 
}> In general, what statements can be made about any integer X, the
}> palindrome it eventually processes into (Xp), and n, the number of
}> steps required to reach Xp?  Is it provable that X -> Xp for all
}> positive integers?
}
}Too hard. Tried this over the weekend and got absolutely nowhere.
}Here's a sub-problem. If the starting integer X is 196 then do you
}eventually get a palindrome ?
}
}I tracked this on computer for 24,094 steps and all I can say is that
}if Xp exists then it has more than 10,000 digits.
 
I have a program permanently doing this, running as the lowest-priority job
on one of our machines. The last time it e-mailed me, it had taken
5754000 steps, reaching a non-palindromic integer of 2382370 digits.
It's still running. If it ever finishes, I'll post the results.
 
--
Alan M Stanier | email alan@sx.ac.uk | tel +44 206-872153 | fax +44 206-860585 
525.36re .-1 I think you broke the record ...OINOH::KOSTASHe is great who confers the most benefits.Sun Feb 25 1990 20:5916
    re .-1
    you may have broken the record. The only other time that the number 196
    was put to the test was in 1972 by Rebmann and Sentyrz in 1972 and they
    only wend as far as 10,000 steps (ref. "A note on palindromes by
    reversal-addition" Mathematics Magazine 45(1972):186-187), but they did
    this to 74 other integers (i.e. 196, 879, 1997, 7059, 9999, ... ,
    90379, 90579, 99999). These 74 were reduced from the 6091 given by Trigg
    as numbers which lead to no palindroms with fewer than 201-to-3710 digits.
    
    
    I would like to see how far we can go with some of these 74 other
    numbers.
    
    Enjoy,
    Kostas
    
525.37AITG::DERAMODan D'Eramo, nice personMon Feb 26 1990 18:2215
        re .-1
        
>>                -< re .-1 I think you broke the record ... >-
>>
>>            re .-1
>>            you may have broken the record.
        
        The author of the article posted in .35 is at the
        University of Essex (according to the article) and
        so won't be able to respond to you.
        
        The way you phrased .-1 I wasn't sure if you thought it
        was me.
        
        Dan