Conference rocks::weight_control

    That's really a hard question, because everyone probably has their
    own opinion about what is "natural". What's "naturally-thin"? Someone
    who might have to lose just a few pounds, or someone who has
    thirty pounds to deal with, or a hundred or two hundred....? 
    
    A great number of folks who are around there ideal
    weight are not healthy. Their color is bad, their posture is bad,
    their backs hurt, they eat donuts for breakfast and skip lunch,
    they drink 6 cups of coffee a day, and so forth. These may be the
    "naturally-thin" people to whom you refer. My point is that a thin
    person may not have the "healthy attitude" that you are assuming
    they have. Few people do. In your note, there's an underlying picture
    of naturally-thin people automatically leaping out of bed in the 
    morning, going for a ten mile run, sitting down to a breakfast of 
    steaming oatmeal, going off to an aerobics class, taking their 
    vitamins...  Please! Realize that most of us mistreat and misfeed 
    ourselves. Perhaps it isn't showing yet, or perhaps there
    is just a little pinch-an-inch around the
    middle... and, yes, perhaps, in the long run, some of us eat less
    on some days and more on other days, so the problem doesn't end
    up manifesting itself.  
    
    It could be that heavier people
    get concerned about themselves and their health, and take control
    and stop eating incorrectly, whereas people that have not suffered
    with a weight problem just never give a hoot and go on feeling lousy. 
    
    Wow, I'm really off on a tangent here. What was your question? Oh
    yes, you worry because you want to eat all the ice cream. And the
    thin folks *never* want to eat more than they should. Oh, please!
    Really, we all pig out, we all overdo, we all get stomach
    aches, we all are afraid of the scales, we all don't like our bodies,
    we all wish we wore a different size, and we all are hooked on Big
    Macs and Coke. (OK, not all of us, but...)
    
    Yes, any changed habit becomes a habit itself, after a time. So,
    eating less doesn't seem like eating less when you've done it for
    three years or five years or whatever. But, as long as we are
    dieting to hate our bodies less, instead of eating well to
    feel great, we are doomed to fear; fear of calories, of clothes,
    of mirrors, of large banana splits, of thin people (or of fat people
    once you become thin), of losing control, of ourselves.  
    
    
    P.S. So, you are asking yourself, who is this preachy long-winded
    person anyway, and what is her story? Well, I'm 5'2, weigh 110 lbs.,
    have fought the weight battle in the past, and am not yet happy
    with my shape. I *have* begun eating for health, and am feeling
    very very good. I don't eat meat, sugar, cheese or milk anymore. 
    (Wow, a real fanatic, you must be thinking. Nah, I'm pretty flexible. I
    just was getting a cold every four weeks, and had a high cholesterol
    level, and had ten extra pounds I couldn't lose, and was addicted
    to candy. I got fed up (so to speak) and decided to give health
    foods a try. I'm real happy with it after two months.) 
    I like to pretend I'm an athelete in training, although 
    I'm nothing of the kind. That makes me care for myself more: 
    "WOW, an athelete!"  ~/~
    
    Good luck in your on-going efforts to be healthy.  Barbara
    

re .1 (Barbara)

Thanks for the input. I found a lot of useful information in your note.  I
guess I was kind of biased by (at least) two of the people I know who are thin,
have always been thin, and have implied at times that THEY would never even
think of eating thus and so amount of such-and-such, and that's why they were
thin and I wasn't (or something like that).  I guess maybe they are in the
minority, though it didn't seem like that at the time, and there are thin
people and non-thin people, and health-conscious people, and non-health-
conscious people, and not necessarily a correlation.

Jill

    Well, I probably came off in my note rather heavy handed...this
    issue is obviously quite dear to my heart, having dealt with it
    emotionally since age 14. At any rate, I didn't mean to imply I
    know what makes us fat or thin or why many people vacillate between
    the two. Everything I said was definitely my own opinion, based
    on my own experience and reading. I think that part of the problem
    in understanding the issue is that it is much more complex than
    given credit for. It seems that the factors involved include all
    the (shifting) habits one establishes over time, including types
    of foods eaten, quantities eaten, exercize, metabolism, mental and
    physical stress...in other words, everything! So I think it's very
    difficult to look at a friend's habits, even over a long period
    of time, and understand precisely why they look like Bo Derek or
    whatever. Sure, we are able to see some of their habits, and
    put two and two together. But it's very easy to jump to conclusions
    based on assumptions about people. (I take myself as an example
    of this; I'm happily down to a weight I like, and I play sports
    and exercize...some people I know assume I've been this way 
    forever and label me a "health food freak", ya know. Yee gads! They
    should've known me five years ago. I know how fast I can go up two
    sizes of clothes, and what a whole pan of rice crispie bars tastes
    like :-]   If you get my drift.)
    -Barbara
    P.S. After all that, I conclude by saying "Who knows, really? Not
    me." I just keep trying to not judge myself TOO hard, and it seems
    to help.

          - confessions of a once "naturally thin" person -


     Until about 1980, when I moved in with my SO (husband now), I was
considered  "naturally  thin"  by  everyone.   5'3'', 100 lbs, skinny.
From day one I had never been overweight, never had  any  meat  on  my
bones,  and  knobby  knees,  visible  ribs  etc.   This is not so good
however.

     I was a heavy  smoker,  2  packs  a  day.   Meals  consisted  of:
breakfast - several cups of coffee, several cigarettes, and maybe once
in a while a donut, lunch -  coffee,  cigarettes,  maybe  a  sandwich,
dinner - varied, some days total splurge (2 -3 helpings of large meals
at my parents house) or more likely, slice  of  lasagna,  or  a  baked
potato, or macaroni and cheese (a whole box to myself).  I lived alone
at the time and didn't enjoy cooking for one.  On visits to my parents
home  I  would  fill  up,  any  other time I was ALWAYS hungry.  Being
diet-ers you can understand what tremendous hunger does to you when  a
large  portion  of  food  is  on  a plate in front of you.  A definite
victim of eating disorder, but never  quite  anorexic.   A  few  times
feeble  attempts  to eat right would be made, but much like battles to
learn to eat less, eating more (correctly in both cases) is not easy.

     Since 1980, I have been overweight.  For the  first  time  in  my
life  my husband and I were enjoying food.  I enjoyed both cooking and
eating, and still do.  So now on the other side of the fence I can see
how hard it is to lose the weight as well.

     So it would appear that like Barbra (28.1)pointed out, "naturally 
thin" is really probably different for everyone. For me it was, and is 
an eating disorder, never really learning to eat correctly. And to top 
it off I'm only admitting the fact now!  (to myself)

     Some day I hope to be REALLY "naturally thin".   5'3''  115  lbs,
and healthy, eating correctly EVERY DAY.

     Thanks everyone for this notesfile and all the encouraging words!

     It really means health and well being to me, not just weightloss.

Kathi

Ps. Are there really any normal, healthy, "naturally thin" people out
there, that didn't have to work at it to get there????

    re  .4
    
    > Are there really any normal, healthy, "naturally thin" people
    > out there, that didn't have to work at it to get there????
    
    I know a few people who might fit the category, but I think that
    a better term for them is "naturally not hungry"!   8^D
    
    Marion

    Jill, not all naturally thin people are happy that way.  It's hard
    to believe unless you've every know someone like that.
    
    A very close friend of mine (and I'm not telling this story to upset
    anyone) has always had a healthy appetite and always looked terminally
    ill she was so thin.  Her one desire after school was to join the
    women's Marine Corp.  There is a minimum weight of 100 lbs.  She
    took the summer off work so as not to burn off any calories.  She
    ate at least 3 squares a day plus banana splits.  She went to a
    dr. for help.  She had to pick a different career cause she never
    passed 93.  Even when pregnant she never approached 100.  She has
    to buy her clothes in the girls' dept.  It's hard being 50 years
    old and taking a girls' size 14.  Actually, a 12 fits better but
    is too short.  The styles just aren't right.
     She can take a womens 0 (yes, zero!) when she can find them, but
    they're rare.  When she needs something special for a work occassion
    or to attend a party she has to go to a dressmaker.  With no weight
    she is always cold.  The only time she was warm was the 2 years
    her husband was stationed in Puerto Rico.  She hated to move away.
    She eats like a horse, but had surgery to get a woman's figure.
     Her husband said it didn't matter that she looked like a 10 year
    old boy, but people used to stare at her because she was so thin.
    
    I know I've rambled but my point is - I wouldn't change places with
    her, and you wouldn't either.
    

    	Thin people.....these are the few of us.  These are the ones
    that are not deprived!  Therefor they do not carve!  It is the
    carving in us that make us fat.  We as humans alway seam to want
    more than what we have got.
    	Thin people can eat what they want when they want it.  It is
    never a sin to eat anything that they may want to eat.  
    	We, the overweight, on they other hand always want what we feel
    we can not have.  Therefor when we break down and have it....WE
    HAVE IT AND THAN SOME..we eat it like we will never have it again.
    	We have to change the way we feel about these forbidden foods.
    They are not forbidden.  We can have it if we really want it.  Once
    I accepted that I found the wanting and the carving for these thing
    go away.  It did not happen over night but it happened.  I'll tell
    you some thing some of the things I really didn't even like after
    all....
    
    
    

  I think the difference is that those who are both healthy and "naturally 
  thin" don't consider food anything more than fuel.  They eat because
  they're hungry, not because they're depressed or happy or lonely or . . .

  I don't have to be hungry to want to eat.  I feel something very close
  to pain when I want a hot fudge sundae and have to tell myself to keep
  walking.  I can eat sugary things until I'm physically ill - it's an
  addiction.  That may not be true of all fat people, but it certainly isn't
  true of the healthy-and-naturally-thin.
  
  Of course, as pointed out in other replies, there are an awful lot of thin
  people out there with *different* hangups/problems/etc that keep them from
  being happy with themselves.
  

    It's more than just the crave that makes you fat.  I remember a
    number of years ago I took stock and decided that if I just didn't
    crave sweets, I'd be thin.  I had noticed that most of my extra
    calories were from sweets.  I figured that if all I did was eliminate
    those sweets, I'd be thin in no time.  I went to the yellow pages,
    did some research and made an appointment with a hypnotist.  I
    underwent hypnosis so that I would have a "normal desire" for sweets
    (I asked him to make me hate them, but he wouldn't do that).  Well,
    the long and the short of that one is that it worked.  I would say
    that I like sweets just as much as the next guy, but I can easely
    pass them up.  I was amazed at the great results after just 2 sessions.
    The bad part was that, since I had to look in other directions for
    my gratification, I started on "rich foods" next.  Bottom line is
    that I have to get real about what it is I *really* crave.  It sure
    isn't food!  
                 
    Marion

    My husband, and nearly all of his family are "naturally thin" people.
    (does this mean my children will have a better chance?).  When we
    get together, I watch the eating habits of his family members, and
    have come to the conclusion, that yes, they do splurge sometimes,
    but not often, and not to the point of being uncomfortably full.
    My husband watches his weight (sometimes by the scale, sometimes
    by the belt) and when he gets 3 or 4 pounds above normal, he cuts
    back for a few days.  That's it.  His sister is the same way.  She
    has two children, and has managed to get back to "normal" weight
    within 3 months of delivery with each pregnancy (she only got to
    be 5 or 10 lbs. over after delivery).
    My sister, on the other hand is a different sort of "naturally thin".
    She just thinks eating is a chore, and although she does enjoy many
    foods, she couldn't possibly over eat.  It is too uncomfortable
    for her.  She NEVER binges.  It would be masochistic to her.
    
    I think there are all types out there, and we all have to learn
    to live with ourselves, and if we're trainabe, train ourselves....
    
    Molly S.

    
    re: .10   
    
    	Your reference to someone thinking eating is a chore....made
    me smile.  
    
    	My youngest daughter (age 14) is "naturally thin"...she thinks
    she is too skinny and has had the teachers at school worried that
    she's anorexic.....but that's another story.  We were eating
    the other day, and she says "I wish we didn't have to eat.  It's
    boring!"  Hmmmm.  Now I don't think I have ever found eating to
    be boring except when I was trying to eat just salads!  :^) 
    
    	Myra 

    I am glad this notes file is still active - regarding "naturally
    thin people".  I believe my husband qualifies for a "naturally thin
    person", weighing exactly , maybe even a bit less, then he did when
    we were married about ten years ago.  He is about 5'10" and weighs
    about 145 pounds.  Having been battling with my weight all my life,
    I have learned quite abit about what it takes to be thin.  I do
    agree that thin people to splurge a bit now and then, but the amount
    of splurging is the real issue.  When he feels that he has eaten
    more that usual, he automatically cuts back, going by how his clothes
    feel as a weight guide.  He eats very modest quantities at meal
    times, very rarely going back for seconds.  But he is a picker and
    loves dessert.  He must finish a meal with a sweet, ice cream or
    cake.  It is maddening for me to watch him pick during the day,
    eat ice cream and never gain weight.  However, he is very active
    during the day, always on the move.  I am sure that has something
    to do with it.  Living with him has had some benefits for me - my
    weight is now about 15 lbs less than it was before we were married,
    I give a lot of the credit of changing my relationship with food
    to him - food to my husband is a necessary thing to survive- but
    he doesn't live to eat.  And come to think of it - either do I anymore.
    
    
    

You know, sometimes I find that eating is a chore.  Sometimes I'm busy, and
I don't want to stop and have anything for lunch or dinner.  But I know I
HAVE to eat something, or I'll be hungry later.  These foods are what the
health-conscious (:-)) call fuel for our bodies.  Then there are times when I
really enjoy eating, and enjoy WHAT I'm eating, and it becomes more of an
event.  These things don't HAVE to be bad for me.  I can enjoy a healthy
meal, or I can enjoy a dessert.  I'll have to think this over in more depth!

My fiance is a "naturally thin" person.  He has said many times that he wished
he could just take a pill to fuel his body (my words here :-)), and he usually
does eat just for fueling purposes.  True, he does enjoy a special meal once in
a while, but he doesn't mind eating the same thing, or simple things, often.
(makes it easy for me to cook, since we both feel this way).  He doesn't have
my tendency to SNACK, SNACK, SNACK, which I KNOW is not for fuelling purposes
(unless it's a "planned snack") and can't understand why I must do it (well,
neither do I, but at least I've been more health-conscious in my snitching
habits :-)).

Jill

    It's been my experience that once you have reached goal, "cheating"
    or "splurging" once in a while is OK.  Normally, I try to just have
    a taste of everything, but sometimes a sundae or something similar
    that you really would like to have is OK.  Every now and then we'll
    go shopping and buy something (a dress for example) that we don't
    really need and is more expensive than we would normally get but
    we just have that desire.  After all -- nobody's perfect!

    In my case I have defined cheating and splurging as uncontrollable
    eating and I feel that I have to do everything possible to avoid
    that.
    
    Weight control is very individual.  We all have different reasons
    for gaining weight and we need to develop different attitudes about
    maintenance.
    
    I view maintenance as a process where I will have special occasions
    where I may eat more than the required number of calories for the
    day and it will be necessary for me to adjust my caloric intact
    for a few days after.
    
    But I will continue to try to control my eating habits.  I would
    rather say to myself...I am going shopping today at the mall and
    I think I will plan to have a sundae and tomorrow I will have a
    light lunch...then to decide at the spur of the moment to have the
    sundae.  
    
    That's when I get into trouble because I then get into the habit
    of making spur of the moment decisions about food so often that
    the maintenance goes to pot.

    I was always a thin person.  About 8 years ago, I started to have the
    weight just seem to go on.  I always ate exactly what I wanted, when I
    wanted it and never gained a pound.
    
    All my life, food was pushed on me, so that I would gain a few pounds.
    
    Four weeks ago, I joined Weight Watchers at work and have lost 3 1/2
    lbs.  I hope to take off 24 lbs and then maintain that weight.
    
    I realize that I have to re-think my eating habits, as I know that just
    thinking about it won't make the weight go away.
    
    I have an under active Thyroid and the instructor said it might take me
    longer to lose the weight, since I am on medication.
    
    I will post my weight in the Progress file in this note.
    
    This Note file has made me think and that is why I joined W.W.
    
    Libby Gans