Conference rocks::weight_control

    D, if I had to guess, I'd say your body type is endomorphic, the
    same as me.  For men, this means broad shoulders and a muscular
    frame

    I can never be skinny, but I can be fit and slender.

    If you're an endomorph, the same will be true for you.

It takes quite a while for our mental self image to catch up with reality.  We
tend to think of ourselves as fat, and our minds won't let us see the truth.  A
lot of it has to do with the picture of thin we have been sold by the media,
too.  It's been 2 years since I started my program, and I'm still suprised by 
pictures of myself.  Especially ones of me standing next to people I consider 
to be much thinner than I am.  I am thinner than I think.

It probably doesn't help much, but a lot of skinny people have the same problem.
When I think back to hearing a skinny person say "I'm so fat!  I HAVE to loose
5 lbs!"  And I would think to myself "From Where???"  I realize now that anyone
can suffer from a distorted self image.

It helps to practice, by the way.  If you can't yet bring yourself to refer to 
your body as thin, then at least start to refer to yourself as thinnER, or more 
slender.  As you feel more comfortable with that, go for the word THIN.  Do
this every day, in conversation with others, or in your own thoughts, but make
the effort.  At some point in time it'll become obvious that the only one who
doesn't believe it is you, and even that will pass.

				-JP

    FOr men, 2lbs per inch of height is thin. For women, 1.5 lbs.
    
    This is THIN. This is thin enough to be a marathoner. 
    
    I am 6' 2.5"" which means thin for me is 2*74.5=149lbs. (10stone 9lbs)
    
    My wife Wendy is 5' 6" which means 66*1.5=99lbs. (7 stone 1lbs)
    
    This is THIN. Most people are healthy around 10-20% over these weights.
    
    
    
    	- andy

I'm sorry, at 5'9 (69 inches), 104 pounds is not "thin", it's EMACIATED.
Period.  Even MODELS aren't that thin.  I could starve myself for months
and never be that thin. I think my *skeleton* weighs more than that.
Even 20% over that (125 pounds) is more than "thin" it's "skinny".  Where
are you getting these numbers?!?!

D!

    10 pounds to go, D!  Well done getting to that stage!

    I agree with the first reply, in that what matters is not being *thin*
    (that is natural for some people, but by no means all) so much as
    being a healthy weight for you, and a weight that you are happy with.

    I am not meant to be thin, but I have been at goal (presently I have
    rather more than 10 pounds to go, but I'm working on that!), and what I 
    found about losing the last 10 pounds was:

    * The visible difference was greater per pound (the last 10 pounds are the
      fine tuning)
    * They came off more slowly than the previous XX pounds (well, you've
      less redundant weight to carry around now!)
    * Getting to 10 pounds from goal meant it was easier to find clothes to
      fit.   Losing those 10 pounds meant that not only did clothes fit; most 
      things I wanted to wear looked good on (when I say "most" I mean that 
      there are always going to be some things that just aren't meant for your 
      shape). 

    Looking forward to a better choice of clothes is giving me the biggest
    incentive to get there.  I wish you all the best with your last ten
    pounds!

    Ali

    Hmmm...I was looking at my body last night with this note in mind,
    trying to see myself as others would see me, and I noticed something...
    
    While I may not be thin, I am definitely *thinner* - which means that
    *fat* is no longer my predominant feature.  This means that other
    features (or bugs, if you will) are no longer hidden or de-emphasized
    by fat.  Things I never noticed, like...(on the plus side) I have very
    broad shoulders...and (on the minus side) I have no butt.  (It was all
    fat - now there's nothing...so much for Madonna buns...oh well...)
    
    Maybe when I am finally THIN I'll get to see what my body really looks
    like.  :-)
    
    D!

    The figures are, as I said, for MARATHON RUNNERS. From a number of
    sources.
    
    /a

Marathon runners usually have less than 3% body fat by weight.

    Ain't no way a woman gets that low while alive.
    
    And professional male body builders seldom get below 4% - and they
    have the lowest recorded bodyfats of professional athletes.

    .8 seems doubtful to me.
    
    I have a chart somewhere in one of my boooks on running regarding
    weight/height formulae and will enter it here when I find it.

Oops, I meant 5%, and that is the figure for males.  Although I remember there
was a football player whose name escapes me who was measured at 3%.  

These figures were given to us by the folks who did lean body mass analysis at
my Optifast group.  And were more or less confirmed by the presentation done
by Covert Bailey (Fit or Fat).  

The norms were given as low 20's for males and mid to high 20s for women.  They
were also typically higher for formerly obese people.

My honey lost 48 lbs in 14 weeks on ww.... His mental image of himself never
caught up with his actual weight.  While putting on his tie one morning
his trousers fell to the floor..... belt and all!  He looked great with all
the weight off.... but he never allowed is thinness to sink into his mind.
He didn't change clothes sizes etc.  Most people seem to put off
buying a new size of clothes until they are where they want to "get down
to"   I think it's a big mistake.  if the big stuff is there... it makes 
it easier to grow into.

the Weight Watcher range for my husband 6ft, was 175 to 195 (or there abouts)
He never dreamed he'd see it.  He hadn't been there since high school (He's 49!)
He stopped at 182... the same weight he left the militray in.  

It's still gone.... 3 years later.

Keep truckin .... when you can feel hip bones through the fluffy... you're
getting close.  

Lolly

>Keep truckin .... when you can feel hip bones through the fluffy... you're
>getting close.  

Feel 'em??? Man, they are driving me nuts!  One problem I never anticipated
with weight loss is that suddenly my natural padding is gone, and I have
bones sticking out in places I never knew I did. I find it much more difficult
to get comfortable on a firm bed or the floor, now, because my hip bones
get in the way.

D!

    For me, it's the cold.  But, on the other hand, I can now wear a
    turtleneck and sweater inside in the winter and feel perfectly
    comfortable.  And at the end of the day, I don't have to wring the
    sweat out of them!
    
    					-JP

    re: .6 and others
    
    I'm really proud of you!  I haven't felt my bones (so to speak) in so
    long, I've forgotten what thats like.  Needless to say I don't have the
    problem that you do regarding your butt.  Mine is anything but flat!
    (ha ha ha ha ha haaahahhahahahahahahaahha)
    
    You disgusting (ha ha), but I'm proud of you.  Keep up the good work.
    I hope to get to the point your at soon.
    
    
    Donna 

    This is an interesting note.  I recently lost 20 pounds and along
    the way I received alot of complements about how "thin" I look.
    I have gone down almost three clothing sizes but I look in the mirror
    and I don't look any different to me.
    I think it will take awhile for my psyche to catch up with the reality
    of the situation.
    How have others dealt with these types of perceptions?

    re: .16
    
    Yes, I have the same problem, but in the opposite direction.  I see
    myself as fat, but not as fat as I really am.  My sister took a video
    of me, and I look like a fat blimp.  Thats what really started me
    "behaving" myself and I started exercising, etc.  But until that time,
    I knew that by the scales I was enournously overweight.  But I didn't
    feel I looked it.  Now I do.
    
    I hear the same thing from a lot of women that are skinny/thin and
    think that they are really fat.  Its just not so.  And nothing I can
    say convinces these people.  They are convinced that I'm just being
    nice.  So, in this situation, in my opinion, its all in your head.  I
    think its just hard to get used to the fact that you look great after
    putting yourself down for so long.
    
    Try having a picture made of yourself.  Maybe that will help you.
    
    
    Donna

    Lots of people feel they have to tell you how thin you're looking.
    They're trying to be nice and encouraging, which is all well and good.
    
    BUT...I rely on the scales. The only objective measurement! :-)

    Dear D and everyone else who wrote in this note:  
    
    What a thought-provoking note!  I have given this matter a lot of
    thought and I still don't have answers...but here's my 2 cents worth
    anyway.
    
    I was always "fat" to myself and to most objective measures of weight. 
    I was over 200 pounds, and at only 5' 3", even my friends couldn't call
    me THIN.
    
    Now I weigh around 140, which most people would not consider "thin" and
    I saw myself as heavy for so long that I was still very judgmental
    about needing to lose 20 pounds or so.  
    
    But, a funny thing happened.  I started exercising and I am really
    firm.  I also have a classic women's figure, waist ten inches smaller
    than my hips and bust which are roughly the same size.  I wear a size
    8, with an occasional 10 and a less occasional 6.  I have a flat
    stomach, definately NOT a flat butt and, well, I look and feel
    wonderful.  
    
    People started making comments like "my wife is really tiny, like you",
    "sure, you don't eat cake, you're the only one in the room who can
    afford to", and people who never knew me when I was heavier thought I
    was always "thin".  
    
    My husband was treated to comments like, "your wife is so pretty NOW". 
    And, to his eternal credit, he always responds from the heart, with
    exactly the same words, "my wife was ALWAYS pretty, she's just thin
    now."
    
    So, my answer to you is that you will become reacquainted with your
    body as it changes and you will find out what is perfect, maybe not
    thin, or heavy, or tiny, but perfect FOR YOU.  For me, I gave up on the
    notion that I would ever be able to wear cute little halter tops
    without a bra, or skin-tight jeans made for teen-aged boys.  I am not
    built straight, my legs, which I am toning up, are not pencil thin and
    my thighs are my major problem area right now.  But, for me, this is a
    good weight, and a good size.
    
    Only you can decide how thin is thin, and whether or not you want or
    need to be thin.
    
    Sylvia

    This month's issue of Health (used to be In Health) has a 4
    page artilcle titled "Do You Weigh Enough ... The Great Weight
    Debate."

    Pretty good reading...

	I second Donna's recommendation about a picture.  I
	saw a picture of myself taken shortly after I'd dropped
	3 clothing sizes, and thought, boy, I was thin!!!

	I'd never really realized it 'til I saw the picture.

Karen

    Alright, I'm slowing beginning to change my body image and really *see*
    the weight I've lost, and see myself is thin.
    
    However, I have an "ideal body" in mind for myself, and I am not at it. 
    At this point I'm at a loss for how to proceed.  I see that my body
    differs from my ideal - I still have a small paunch around my stomach,
    pockets of fat on my hips and saggy/flabby buttucks and upper thighs. 
    So how do I engineer my body to look like what I want it to?
    
    I've heard of toning excersizes to "turn fat to muscle" but I'm
    skeptical; are you really "turning" muscle to fat?  It seems to me you
    can build muscle *under* fat, but as long as the fat is still there,
    you will still be soft and flabby on the surface.
    
    On the other hand, those are places that it seems I can't get rid of
    the fat no matter how much weight I lose; but then, I still have
    another 5-10 pounds to goal - will it come off of those places?
    
    I started working out - nautilus a couple of times a week, walking a
    couple of times a week, and doing crunches and some other toning
    excersizes interspersed throughout.  I'm also continuing losing weight
    the same way I have been.  Is this enough?  If I keep this up will I
    eventually have the body I want?  I've already started to see results
    of the nautilus: muscle definition in my arms, calves, shoulders and
    lower thighs.  But no change so far in the "bad spots".  Any
    suggestions?  When will I see some results?
    
    D!

    Muscle and fat are dissimilar tissues.
    
    Look in any anatomy book and look at where muscles are in the body
    (between and around joints only) and where they attach (to bones
    via tendons) and it should be plain as day that if the turned to
    fat, your body would fall apart!
    
    And if you turned fat into muscle, that muscle would be unattached
    to any bones. What a weird sight that would be.

    Oh yeah, to reduce fat, work long and slow, but work major muscle
    groups - that will help to cinsume more fat even after you stop
    the workout.
    
    Bike riding interleaved with Nautilus (a few sets Nautilus then
    5 minutes bike) works pretty well for that, and it breaks up the
    monotony.

	Diana,

	I have found that the weight work (nautilus, body sculpting) has
	helped me lose overall fat, due to the increased muscle mass in
	my body.  Often times, people will lose a pound of fat, and replace
	it with a pound of muscle.  That's where the myth about turning
	muscle to fat seemed to come from.

	If you keep at your exercise, you may in time see results in
	your problem areas.  Remember, you can't "spot" reduce, so doing
	500 leg lifts won't get rid of outer thigh fat.  Aerobic exercise
	supplemented by weight training should give you the best results
	in the long run.

	One other thing.  There may be areas that will always be there
	on you, that you cannot change.  Women have "sex-specific" fat
	around the abdomen, hips, and thighs, mainly there to cushion
	the reproductive areas.  Some women genetically have more than
	others.  It comes down to accepting the way you are made; focus
	on being fit, looking good, but not necessarily perfect.

	I have found that I have more abdominal fat than I did 7 years
	ago, and I was 3-4 sizes bigger then.  I lost weight, then regained
	some, then lost it again.  After the second loss, voila! pot belly!
	That's one of the reasons yo-yo dieting is so bad for you - the
	places that the fat goes on aren't always the places it came off,
	and abdominal fat is a higher risk in heart disease than other
	body fat.

	well, I've rambled on enough... hope this helps!

	karen

What is "body sculpting" and how do I do it?

D!

	Body Sculpting is a weighted workout, aimed at increasing
	muscle tone and muscular endurance.  It is not aerobic.

	Typically, you use weights from 1 to 10 pounds, though I've never
	seen many people go beyond 6 pounds.  You add weight
	for those exercise that are easier (biceps, pectorals) and use
	a lower weight for those that are more difficult (shoulders perhaps).
	As your body adjusts to the weight you've selected (over several
	sessions), you may increase the weight slightly to continue to
	build your muscle endurance.  I tend to do 30 reps on each exercise,
	working all the major muscles in one one hour class.

	There are some videos out there on body sculpting; I've never
	used one, so I have no recommendations.  I teach it at my
	health club, and I assume other clubs are offering it.

	Karen

    I have boby sculpting videos called "The Firm". They have 5 different
    tapes Vol 3,4,5 use a step up bench.  These are excellent body building
    workouts.  You can see results within 10 workouts.  They are around 50$
    for each video but it is very well done and is worth it.  They
    advertise in Shape and Selp Magazines.  If you need any further
    information contact me offline.
    
    Regards,
    
    Sasha

    Can someone tell me what the measurements of a thin person are.
    I have a good friend who is driving me nutso.. cause she says
    she had Thick Thighs.. they are the skinniest things I hve
    ever seen.. I figure if I can give her an average measurement
    or a thin measurement, it will finally convince her and she
    will stop driving me crazy!!!!!
    

    Thick thighs are in the mind. Logic doesn't come into it.
    
    Sorry, but the adjustment here is in your friends head, not the legs.
    
    /andy

    re .31
    
    You're right... I know its in her head, but if I figure if I tell
    her that 18 inch thighs are the average, she will realize her
    thighs are really thin.  Just telling someone that they are thin
    doesn't work, sometimes they need hard facts!  Trust me I've
    tried!
    
    

    Speaking as someone who has a warped body image, I do not believe that
    if you give your friend a "magic number" s/he will suddenly say "Ah, I
    was wrong!  I *do* have thin thighs."  That just isn't how it works. 
    Poor self body image goes a lot deeper than "logic" will work.  A
    person with a problem like that can and will rationalize away *any*
    sort of magic number, saying "Well that's for a smaller person" or
    "Well that isn't how big I want to be" or whatever.
    
    Also, there really is no magic number, because the "right" size for
    thighs depends on the person.  Some people have naturally thicker
    thighs that look good that way; others have naturally thin thighs. 
    
    Diana