Conference rocks::weight_control

.0>    Weight Watchers

	The safest, and my personal favorite.


.0>    Slim Fast

	The most dangerous.

-mike z

    NOTE 548.1
    
    Why do you consider Slim Fast the most dangerous.  I was on it for
    several months, lost 35 lbs. and suffered no side effects whatsoever.
    It was the only method which worked for me.
    
    Joan
    

.2>    Why do you consider Slim Fast the most dangerous?

	See 445.19 - liquid protein diets.

-mike z

    .2 You were lucky !!!

       One statement that is certainly true about weightloss methods
       is that none works for everyone, or even a majority of people.
       Moreover, anyone who has had success with one method is probably
       going to be supportive of that method.
       
       There are really two essential elements to a weight loss program.
       The first is getting rid of the excess weight, and the second is
       changing your lifestyle in order not to regain the weight. Some
       programs, such as Weight Watchers and other programs that work on
       long-term changes in eating/exercise habits, give a higher
       priority to the second element.  Other programs (such as Slim
       Fast) concentrate exclusively (or almost so) on losing the weight,
       and the programs leaves the rest up to you.
       
       Because different people's reactions to weight loss programs vary
       so drastically, I think it's irresponsible to suggest to anyone
       that any one program will work, or is even the most likely to
       work, for him or her.  For some people, it is dangerous to go on
       the Slim Fast program; for other people, it could be more
       dangerous _not_ to go on this type of program. 
       
       It isn't difficult to imagine someone who is extremely overweight
       and is apprehensive about the weekly meetings of WW. (Apprehensive
       due to a fear of failure or whatever reasons.)  If such an
       individual, after consulting with appropriate medical personnel,
       can achieve a significant short-term weight loss with a program
       such as Slim Fast and then generate the confidence to develop a
       long-term weight control strategy, then the Slim Fast program will
       have been a success.  In fact, in this (hypothetical) case,
       avoiding a Slim Fast-like plan would have been more dangerous than
       beginning one. 
       
       I'd certainly suggest that anyone try traditional and balanced
       programs---programs that promote weight loss through lifestyle
       changes---before trying a patchwork program such as Slim Fast. If
       the traditional methods prove to be unsuccessful, though, a
       Slim Fast-like program is certainly worth a shot.  (Just be
       sure to see a doctor first.)
       
       --Mr Topaz
       
       re .4 (Eileen):

       > Pure Luck 
              
       Losing weight isn't pure luck.  It is hard work and determination,
       and your gratuitous comment is uncalled for.

    re .5
    
    My comment of"pure luck" had nothing to do with weightloss, it was
    luck that the person maintained their health on the slim fast program.
    I have read many horror stories in the file about slim fast.  I
    was going to try slim fast myself until I read some of these stories.

    
    I am a lifetime member and big fan of Wt Watchers, so that would be
    my first choice for a lifelong program.
    
    I was successful with NutriSystem as well, which has improved 
    immensely in the last few years but is still somewhat limited if
    youhave to be on it for longer than say, a couple of months.
    
    The best "fad" program I know of right now is Jenny Craig.  I say
    best in terms of nutritional balance and good food.  In fact, our
    WW leader just a coupleof weeks ago made the comment that Jenny C
    had combined "the best of NutriSystem" (convenience, lack of choice)
    with "the best of Wt Watchers" (nutrition) and was "gonna make a
    mint."  I agree.  The food is about 60% the packaged stuff, BUT 
    they are mostly frozen dinners made of real food (as opposed to the
    chemical stuff NS USED to have) and are amazingly good.  They have
    you eat a good deal of veggies, fruit, skim milk, etc in addition.
    
    I used to think they were horribly expensive (maybe $65/week average
    for the food) but lately I've noticed that I'm spending almost that
    much on my Wt Watchers food when I really follow the diet, too.  So
    it's not that much worse than WW in terms of cost.  (especially now
    that WW is up to $10/week!)  They charge you a one-time fee and you
    can take as long as you need to lose the weight, although they WILL
    give you a guaranteed date to lose it by if you stick to it.  (I 
    didn't; when I didn't do as well as I wanted to the first week when
    I stuck to it, I kind of got discouraged and began cheating).  
    
    But there are people in this file I know who are having GREAT success
    with JC (right, Di?)  So if you want a "guaranteed" end date with 
    no food choices to make and lots of convenience, try Jenny Craig ...
    might work for you!
    
    Laurie
    

    
    p.s.  there's a JC in Lowell and in Cambridge ... don't know about
    others ...
    

    
    With deference to Mr_Topaz, I'm going to go out on a limb here and
    register my support for Jenny Craig.  I can't say enough good
    things about it.  As Laurie said in .7, it does seem to be the
    best of both worlds.
    
    Good luck with whatever you choose.
    Diane
    

    Down in Oz we have Jenny Craig, but where I started was The Diet
    Factory.  They have been in business for about 8 years.  All food is
    prepared fresh.  The dinners are frozen, 2 proteins and 4 vegetables,
    no salt, no additives, etc.  The lunches are all packed and numbered,
    fresh salads, breads, etc.  Breakfasts are great.  It all fits in with
    WW plan.  This started me off, because I really hated going into the
    kitchen.  
    
    They closed over Christmas and I had to prepare my own b/f and lunches,
    which I have kept up.  And, I am actually back in the kitchen cooking. 
    I'll keep the dinners, only because thats the hardest for me to do at
    the end of the day.  I have based my meals on WW Quick Success
    Cookbook.  As an ex lecturer of WW its the one I understand, and with
    the changes since I was there, its much easier.  
    
    I keep a count of my fats, which are now down to between 11% and 14%,
    depending on whether I have chicken, tuna, cheese or egg on that day. 
    At 46lbs for 11.5 weeks I can't complain.
    
    ...dale
    

    There's another program I like
    
    - it's free
    - you can go as often or as seldom as you want
    - it's available all over the world
    - you personally select the person whom you want to be your coach
    - there are a variety of food plans floating around, if you do the
      research - you select the one you want
    - it stresses personal growth and change
    - it has lots of members with eating disorders (as opposed to '10
      pounds to lose')
    - there is lots of published literature available about this program
    
    It does not have
    
    - weigh ins
    - fancy centers
    - frozen foods
    - contracts
    - end dates
    - leaders
    
    
    Holly
    

    If one has to depend on prepared foods than one is at the mercy
    of the selections that is available to use.When you attend a lunchen
    do you take the food with you ?or can you order anything to have
    it prepared as you like it?Knowing the fat content of the foods
    that you consume is what it is all about.Limit yourself to 2grams
    of fat per meal and you will loose fat and that is my story of how
    it can be done.But you you go on a trip do you take the food along
    with you or can you get this food anywhere?Don't limit what you
    can eat just how much fat you consume.Enjoy the food and you will
    feel better about any diet that you go on.Just a thought.
    Best of health

    I want to thank all of you for your advice so far, its interesting
    to hear all the comments.
    
    I went to my appointment with Jenny Craig last night and was very
    impressed.  I put a deposit down, until I make my final decision,
    but I think I know which one I will go with, so I will keep you
    posted, and thanks again....
    
    K

    >re 548.11 "The only way out is through"
    
    I'm with you 100% Holly.  Our program is the only one that is
    free and all the other positive features you mentioned! No other
    program can claim what we have.
    
    Thanks
    

    
    Re: .11, & .14
    "The only way out its through???"
    
    
    "THROUGH WHAT??"
    
    K

    Barbara quoted my personal name from note 11.  It's a quote from a
    song, Baptism of Fire.
    
    
Baptism of Fire by Julie Snow

sung by Lui Collins on (I think) Green Linnet album, "Baptism of Fire"

Baptism of Fire, I never knew what that meant
But now the flames are rising higher
I guess I  haven't seen anything yet
But now they're coming down around me 
And I am rising up
Like the phoenix from the ashes wings across the blue
The only way out is through


...there are other verses, but that's the one I know by heart!
    
Holly
    

    re: .13>
    
    Can you elaborate a little more on the Jenny Craig diet?  IE, is it
    their pre-processed food, or lots of exercise involved with a lo-cal
    diet, etc?  I've looked throught this notes file and can't really 
    figure out what this diet is all about.  One more thing, is it
    expensive?
    
    Thanks.
    
    Robin

    In yesterday's Sunday Middlesex News, there was a section which
    described the various diet programs that are available. They included
    info such as whether it was a group format or individual counseling,
    what costs were involved, etc. Programs that were discussed included
    Weight Watchers, Diet Center, Jenny Craig, Nutra-System, Slim-Fast and
    a few others that I can't remember right now.
    
    If there is any interest, I'll retrieve the artical before it makes the
    trash pile to post some of the basics.

    Re: .17
    
    Robin:  From the interview that I went through, its the lo-cal foods,
    (which you purchase their every week- roughly $65.00), exercise,
    and the weekly meetings that account for the popularity of this
    diet.  They also have tapes that you listen to twice a day as part
    of the behavior modification program.  They guarantee their progam,
    and right now they are offering it here locally in California for
    half off.  $92.50, for the program, $99.00 for maintenance, and
    $75.00 for the tapes.  The food is between $65-80 per week, so it
    can be an expensive program, but the best one so far that I have
    looked at!!
    
    K

	Yesterday, I mentioned an article which talked about choosing a
weight-loss program. Well, I was able to salvage it before it got thrown
out with the trash. 
    
	The article is much longer than I thought it was, so I have entered
    the major partof that article,  for those who are interested. I also
    included brief descriptions of the individual programs  which list the
    costs, calorie ranges, whether it's a one-on-one format  or a group
    session, etc.

	Article to follow on next page.

	ENJOY!! and Best of Luck as a looser!!


		   **** Copied without permission ****
	     Excerpts from Middlesex News article 21-Jan-1990


	Food plan or slimming shake? Here's a guide to sifting through
the smorgasbord of weight-loss programs.

	The first thing to do is evaluate yourself and your needs. How
much weight do you have to lose and do you have any other health 
problems, such as high blood pressure or diabetes. If you have more 
than 40 pounds to lose, you're safest with a program supervised by a 
physician who is trained and experienced in weight control, according 
to Dr. Dennis Rapa, staff physician at Leonard Morse Hospital in 
Natick. "You need someone who views obesity as a disease, a metabolic 
problem that is a risk factor that leads to more problems, such as 
high blood pressure, diabetes, surgical and obstetrical complications 
and death," says Rapa.
	Those with 15 - 20 pounds to lose, who have not had a chronic 
problem with obesity, might want to consider one of the many 
commercial programs available.
	"I very often recommend Weight Watchers to patients I feel 
don't have a disease, who maybe recently got married or had a baby or 
have just gone crazy during the holiday season. For that person, 
Weight Watchers, Nutri-system, Diet Center or something like that is 
fine," Rapa says.
	If you choose a commercial program, don't join it because you 
want to look like Susan St. James, because your a fan of Tommy Lasorda 
or because you feel pressured by sales techniques.
	Shop around and look for a program that fits your lifestyle 
and personality.
	Some people like the group support of an organization such as 
Overeaters Anonymous or Diet Workshop. Others prefer privacy and 
one-on-one contact.
	Some people know that they won't stick to a diet unless it's 
controlled, with a low calorie limit or pre-packaged foods. Others do 
better with more flexibility.
	"Talk to friends who have been on other programs, ask a lot of 
questions, and check the programs out. The people who know best are 
consumers. Ask for references," says Dr. Richard Kadison, director of
the counseling center at Leonard Morse Hospital and specialist in 
eating disorders.
	"You also have to look at the reasons why you eat," says 
Kadison.
	"If you eat to be nice to yourself, and you take away the 
food, then you have to find some other way to be nice to yourself or 
you'll go back to overeating," he says.
	No matter what type of weight loss program you choose, it 
should be have a long-term follow-up program to help keep the weight 
off.
	"Once the weight is lost, the program begins," says Rapa.
	Kadison adds that you should not feel ashamed if you start to 
gain back weight; keep your maintenance program appointments.
	"Face reality if you slide and fail. It's no big deal. Like 
they say in Alcoholics Anonymous, you have to take it one day at a 
time," says Kadison.

**	Diet Workshop

	A group-type program with a food plan based on 800 - 1200 calories. 
After paying an $11 registration fee, clients have a private weighing and 
goal-setting session with a counselor. Then they listen to a lecture. 
Groups meet at various times weekly. Each weekly group meeting costs $8. 
Meetings last about one hour and 15 minutes. Foods on the plan can all be 
bought at local grocery stores.
	The maintenance program consists of weekly meetings. Clients can 
attend free as long as they keep the weight off. Otherwise they are 
charged.
	Information on the program is given freely over the phone, No 
appointment is necessary; you can show up at whatever meeting is 
convenient.

**	Weight Watchers

	This program is also based on group meetings and low-calorie diet 
based on foods bought at the grocery store. Food choices are flexible.
	The registration fee through January 27 is $12, after that goes 
back up to $27. The weekly meeting fee is $9.
	Although clients must have at least 10 pounds to lose to join 
Weight Watchers, they may leave the program at any time and don't have to 
lose a prescribed amount of weight.
	Information on the program is given freely over the phone. No 
appointment is necessary.

**	Diet Center

	In this program, clients meet twice a week privately with a 
counselor. The program costs approximately $300 for the first six weeks. If 
you have not met your goal in that period of time, a weekly fee is charged 
until you have lost the weight. Clients determine the amount of weight they 
would like to lose and are not pressured to stay in the program.
	You need not buy pre-packaged food, although Diet Center does carry 
a line of products which it recommends.
	The food plan includes a two-day cleansing diet followed by a low 
calorie weight loss program with daily nutritional supplements, a 
stabilization plan and maintenance. The maintenance program is free for a 
year if the client maintains the weight within two pounds.
	Information on the program is given freely over the phone. An 
appointment must be made for the initial consultation, which lasts about 30 
minutes.

**	Slim Fast

	This is a do-it-yourself program that consists of drinking two or 
three Slim-Fast milk shakes a day in place of breakfast and lunch, and 
following up with a 350-calorie, low-fat dinner. Fruit may be added as a 
snack.
	A can of Slim-Fast costs about $5.99 and contains 15 servings 
(there are also Slim-Fast bars). Low calorie menus and tips on behavior 
modification are included in the package.

**	Weight Loss Clinic

	This is a one-on-one program, supervised by nurses and 
nutritionists and based on a low-calorie food plan which varies with the 
client. After a free consultation which lasts about 30 minutes, amount of
weight loss, time it will take and cost of the program is determined based
on factors such as client's activity level. 
	After the goal weight is reached, there is a stabilization plan 
followed by a maintenance program that lasts more than a year.
	Information is given freely on the phone; staff encourages making 
an appointment for details.

**	Nutri-system

	This program encourages learning new eating habits while on a 
program of pre-packaged foods purchased through Nutri-system.
	At a free consultation which lasts 45 minutes to an hour, a 
computer weight analysis is done to determine how much weight the client 
has to lose. Then the client comes in once a week for nutritional analysis 
and classes on eating habits.
	The cost depends on the amount of weight the client has to lose and 
how long it will take to lose it, based on factors such as activity level.
	Information is given freely over the phone; staff encourages making 
an appointment for details.

**	Optifast

	It is a medically supervised, very low calorie liquid diet plan for 
people who are seriously overweight. Behavior modification and long-term 
maintenance programs are included. Cost depends on amount of weight the 
client has to lose.
	Information is given over the phone; appointments are encouraged. 


**	Overeaters Anonymous

	This program is based on the same tenets as Alcoholics Anonymous, 
in that overeating is seen as a disease and that those who have it need the 
help of a higher power. Group support is given and members are encouraged 
to follow a nutritionally sound diet plan.
	There are no fees, although donations are accepted.

**	Jenny Craig

	This program is a newcomer to the greater Boston area. The program 
uses pre-packaged foods and there is a maintenance program. 
	Very little information is given over the phone. Staff strongly 
encourages making an appointment to find out details of the program.
    

    I have tried WW and am currently doing the DIET CENTER program.  I feel
    that both are motivating programs.  The major factor for me is to eat
    food that is as natural and is not pro-packaged.  I have a fear of pro-
    grams like nutra-systems, because I've always wondered what happens
    after I get to my goal weight and have to start eating store bought
    food again.  I feel that WW and Diet Center assist in eating behavior
    and modification so that you make a smoother transition. This is a
    major assumption on my part, since I've never tried Nutra-systems.
    
    Diet Center is showing me a faster weightloss than WW, therefore I am
    staying motivated.  You have to consider your lifestyle and values as
    well when looking at these programs...

	In the interest of removing clutter, I've deleted the various 
	replies requesting the posting of the article in .24.

	Beverly
	Co-Moderator of WEIGHTLOSS

    Reading all these different programs and the amount ranging from
    50 to 300 dollars and so much a week I now think theone one previous
    mentioned was low in comparason to the ones that I have seen here.A
    total of 34.95 for the whole thing no change in what you eat,just
    how you eat it.Just a coment about how many of the diets work for
    people about 2% is what I'm hearing.From all the information I can
    gather it seems that once you get off any of these programs the
    weight comes on faster than before because the body want to adjust
    to the amount of food taken in. Best of Health  D.Allen

    re .27
    
    The majority of people in this notes file are trying very hard to
    lose weight in a way their life style and health are not jeoparidzed.
    If their is one thing we need is encouragement to stay with our
    programs, we have faith in the programs we have selected, it is
    nice to have others offer alternative programs in a positive way,
    I find your note very discouraging.  I don't think any of us have
    to be told we will fail, this is the something many of us have lived
    with for many years, I don't think we have to hear it from other
    noters.

.27>    total of 34.95 for the whole thing no change in what you eat,just
.27>    how you eat it.Just a coment about how many of the diets work for

	SALEM::D_ALLEN, do you use this product?

-mike z

    Not yet Mike but I have many indorsements that I have collected
    from the Company that produces it,these are all unsolisicided and
    I like to collect information on things I talk about so as to have
    the information to back up what I say about different things for
    your health when it comes to taking things into the body,before
    I do so I have to know what each one will do,example Gymnema Sylvester
    used 2,000.00 years by the people in the far east,and is still used
    to block Sugar from being absorpted into the system,and along with
    that something that is good for you heart Chromium Picolinate also
    used to help to diet,If you would like to see the information Than
    by all means put in your mail stop and I will send you a copy and
    you can make your own judgement as to if you should take these people
    at their word.I just relay information for people to make their
    own dissission because I do think people are intellegent enough
    to do so,on their own.

                      <<< Note 548.30 by SALEM::ALLEN_D >>>
                         -< check everthing out first >-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|    Not yet Mike but I have many indorsements that I have collected
|    from the Company that produces it,these are all unsolisicided and
|    I like to collect information on things I talk about so as to have
|    the information to back up what I say about different things for
|    your health when it comes to taking things into the body,before
|    I do so I have to know what each one will do,example Gymnema Sylvester
|    used 2,000.00 years by the people in the far east,and is still used
|    to block Sugar from being absorpted into the system,and along with
|    that something that is good for you heart Chromium Picolinate also
|    used to help to diet,If you would like to see the information Than
|    by all means put in your mail stop and I will send you a copy and
|    you can make your own judgement as to if you should take these people
|    at their word.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

This has to be the l o n g e s t sentence I've ever seen!

Have a good one!

Liz :-).

    ...and semantically null at that.