Conference rocks::weight_control

    	
    	just using an example... so sorry.
    
    	It shows even better how little protein is required, though.
    	At 100 kg (220 lbs), you need less than 3 ounces of protein
    	daily.
    
    karen
    

    Thanks a lot for your suggestions! Would you know of a book that I
    should get hold of inorder to stay on track?
    
    Joey

    
    	My personal favorite is "Fit or Fat" by Covert Bailey.
    	Runs about $5.95  in paperback, so the price is nice, too.
    
    Karen
    

    For thoes wanted to loses weight and at the same time gain muscle
    mass have a product that has both Chromimum Picolinate or GTF
    and a herb in it by the name of Gymnema Sylvestre wich helps the
    body reject sugar absorption in the digestive tract. these two will
    do the required work while you eat normaly and it is taken along
    with meals.One is a sugar blocker. And it does what it says.I can
    send a item I copied out of a book for just that reason to help
    people control the weight and muscle at the same time.Converting
    fat to muscle is the most important part not to lose muscle mass
    as on loses weight.

	The way to keep muscle while losing weight is obvious.

	Exercise.

-mike z

.6>    people control the weight and muscle at the same time.Converting
.6>    fat to muscle is the most important part not to lose muscle mass
.6>    as on loses weight.

    	And just a slight nit, but you can't actually convert fat to
    muscle.  Losing fat and building muscle are separate processes.

    	amy

    I would like you to look up a word Amy and the defination as you
    will see will reflect what I said.Chromium Picolinate it's name
    is GTF assists you in converting excess weight to muscle.This fact
    is well known in weight training but unknown to most of us that
    only lift a knife and fork.It's other job is to make the insulin
    work better. It does this by allowing "more of the insulin in the
    blood to be put to work at each cell".It makes the insulin you have
    do a better job. Lowers the Cholesterol.Not only that ,but raises
    the HDL(The good Cholesterol)Some studies shown Cholestrol drops
    of 14-36%in just two months. It also reduces plaque in the arteries.
    GTF(Glucose Tolerance Factor) that is what it stands for.
    For infomation taken out of Book of Health.  It builds Muscle Tissue.
    The important word is Tissue. Just a few words from a health person
    who enjoys eating all natural products as much as possible,to do
    some things to prevent other things from happening in the future.
    Best Of Health Don Allen
    

Hmmmmm, Don, let me see if I've got this straight.  Are you saying that
I can actually take fat cells on my body and have them turn them into 
muscle cells?  I'm certainly not a chemist but find this kind of
transformation a bit difficult to believe.  Leads to all kinds of
questions of genetics and mutations...

Liz

ps, got the article you sent, thank you!

    I'm only quoting from the paper work that I sent for and if you
    would like to read the item you are welcome,for I don't have that
    much knowledge either but whoever printed the material had to do
    some investergating in order to put forth the paper as they did.
    for I'm sure they would have people jumping all over them for 
    miss information as you have done,to me but as things go I don't
    mind finding out something from people that know more about cell
    level transformation and at what level this all takes place.For
    I learn also in the process.Did you look up the words Chromium 
    Picolinate ? And what did it say? Good Health Don Allen

    
    	Sorry, but Amy's right.  It is a FACT that you cannot turn
    	fat cells into muscle cells.  Another Fact is that you cannot
    	get rid of Fat cells.  You can empty them of stored fat, but
    	you cannot get rid of them.  
    
    	One very interesting thing about fat cells vs. muscle cells,
    	(Ok, so it's interesting to me...) is that your body can
    	produce new fat cells if it needs them (to store more fat,
    	aaarrrggh).  It cannot produce new muscle cells. 
    	(I can't remember the term for being able to generate new
    	cells... if I remember, I'll enter it tomorrow).
    
    	Your literature may be guilty of what seems to be a common 
    	occurrance nowadays - they claim you can turn fat to muscle,
    	when what they should say is "lose fat while increasing
    	muscle".  
    
    Karen
    
    
    	

.9>    will see will reflect what I said.Chromium Picolinate it's name
.9>    is GTF assists you in converting excess weight to muscle.This fact

	Fat and muscle are distinct cells.

	You cannot convert fat to muscle.

	You cannot convert muscle to fat.


	You can use the energy contained in fat to produce muscle mass.

	That's exercise.

	And I'd do that long before I go taking supplements that promise
    to alter my body processes.  Call me old-fashioned.

-mike z

    Mike How many chemical Patents do you hold in bio chemistry?
    Well I investergated the person who is founder of the product
    mentioned and the patent office has issued him over 26 chemical
    patents that are being used today by the medical community and 
    if you are right than all these experts are wrong.One is on Chelation
    the process to take out the "LEAD" from the body by cellular level
    done oraly so I guess with all his degree's and over 30 years in
    the field of Bio Physics and chemistry he can't know what he is
    talking about.What I understand he has a staff of 10 to 15 chemists
    that he supervises to make sure every chemical that is formulated
    is accorsing to the standard that is put forth by the food and drug
    Commission so as it will be in compliance with them.Now if you wish
    to write to him I will be glad to give his address to you and I"M
    sure he will write back with the imformation that you request.
    Best of Health D.Allen

Don, I don't think anyone is actually "jumping" all over you here.  I think
we're being skeptical and perhaps suggesting you might try that as well.

You mentioned something to the effect that if what this person said wasn't
true he'd have people jumping all over his claims (those were not your exact
words).  Let me turn it around - if what he said IS true, don't you think 
he'd have people jumping all over his product and clamoring to buy it?
Wouldn't we see front-page articles and nightly news reports of this?  And
I don't mean in the Enquireror, either.   I imagine he would be an excellent
candidate for some sort of prize as well as this would be an incredibly
important discovery for the health/science field.  So, maybe it just hasn't
made the Colorado Springs Gazette Telegraph or the channel 9 news.

I guess my first reaction to this was "great, another scam like the starch
blockers".  Oh, I did look up those words, they were not in my dictionary
that I have at work.

Again, I think most of us are skeptics, not trying to come down on you
personally.  If there were a sure-cure for overweightness we wouldn't have
to have this notesfile.

Regards,

Liz

    Liz the person does what I have read in the Trade Papers over 
     1 million a week in sales but unless you have heard of Mr Harry
    Hersey who was honored by the President Mr Bush for his outstanding
    contribution to the direct Sales Division and accepted into the
    inner circle by Mr.Bush than you woulden't be surprized by the amount
    of products that are produced and the scope of how far they are
    known.All through Canada,Astrailia,NewZealand,just to quote a few
    countries that he has products in.Just as 10-hydroxy decanoic acid
    has been used in the treatment of Arthritis and nicin is added to
    make it work,has ben used by many doctors for injections,but all
    that is in reality is Royal Jelly,and how long has that been around?
    For over 600 years,if you look back in history at the Romans and
    before them.So I do understand what you are talking about.Example
    have you heard of Rosebud salve,or Cloverlene,there are so many
    things we are not aware of that have been in exsistance for long
    before we came along but I do keep an open mind and investergate
    as far as I can to weigh the possiblity of anything and I don't
    know if that is the wrong thing to do but one has to except things
    as they are or prove to one's self that they are not so. Precived
    ideas put blocks in one's way.  Best of Health D.Allen

.14>    Mike How many chemical Patents do you hold in bio chemistry?

	None.


	You still cannot convert fat into muscle.

	Can you imagine if you could?

	You'd have muscles where the fat was - just below the skin and
    not attached to bones with tendons!

-mike z

	I doubt that there are many readers of this conference who are really
	qualified to evaluate the materials being discussed here.  I strongly
	suggest that anyone who is thinking of trying these products consult
	their physician before taking them (and then report back on actual
	results!).

	Beverly_as_moderator

	PS: Thanks for pointing out the title typo, Mike!

    I have the same Idea get a good physician ask him by all means first
    and if he agrees than it is up to the person what they do from there
    on.A good point taken see the doctor FIRST !! and from him who will
    be of greater knowledge by far,and then what ever you do,it is you
    who will make the final desission.Thank you for that clarifacation
    it is well worth the time,to do so. Best intensions only,nothing
    else,but to see happy people and healthy people,and that is up to
    every one of us,to keep well.One thing money can't buy is health.
    Best of health D.Allen

    I checked. My Doctor tells me: there is NO WAY to "convert" fat to muscle.
    
    If you really want to believe this scam, go ahead.
    
    

    Kindly ask your doctor if he knows what fat metabolizing formula
    designed to work while you sleep,this product stimulates your body
    to increase metabolism while you sleep ,it helps to release hormones
    which increase muscle tone while burning fat.The fat burners are
    Ox Bile Extract-D.L.Methionine,L-Carnitine,L-Arginine.Once again
    an enzyme is used,Lipase,to break down fat.Ask him to research to
    find out what these are all in product as mentioned with GTF,previously
    mentioned.You better tell all the people that have lost weight it
    doesn't work?I don't think all doctors know all things as we give
    the credit for but that is my opinion.I will gladly send the whole
    article is you so desire.Then you can bring the whole article to
    him to get a true picture.If that is acceptable.Best of health
    D.Allen
    

    
    	RE: .21
    
    Burning fat while simultaneously increasing muscle tone IS NOT
    the same thing as converting fat to muscle.  That is what
    most people have been debating.  As Mike mentioned, exercise
    will burn fat while increasing muscle tone.  But, nothing	
    will actually turn fat cells into muscle cells. 
    
    As far as reading product literature about personal testimonies of
    weight lost, you may benefit more from seeking personal testimonies
    of people that have kept weight off.  Even the snake oil sellers
    can make claims of "X pounds lost in 10 days!", but few will provide
    data on years of maintenance.
    
    Karen
    

    Pills, pills, and more pills.  *sigh*

	o There is no miracle drug for losing fat.
	o There is no easy way to safely lose fat.
	o The safest wasy to lose fat is s-l-o-w-l-y
	o The only proven way to lose weight and *keep it off* is to
	     adjust your eating AND exercise habits.

	
	"Eat right and get some form of regular exercise", is the best,
    safest, and most sensible advice for staying healthy and fit.

-mike z

    Mike you may be right, but where did I get all the names of the 
    clemicles memntioned in note .21, and the enzyme Lipase what is it
    in relation to other things? Most people don't EAT RIGHT so meaning
    organic food or not so they are forced to suppliment their diet
    with somthing that will give them what they require for the day's
    nutrition to make up for the processed food that one has to 
    comsume without all minerals and vitiams required.What exercise
    is the right one for each of us, it has to be one that won't
    injure one self, for each has limitations,of some kind.

    The skeptic in me would want to know who this researcher is funded by.
    It's no accident that lots of research funded by the sugar industry has
    found that sugar is just fine for you - ditto for research funded by
    the dairy and pork industries saying that there are no health risks
    associated with their products.  (No, I cannot quote chapter and verse,
    but I'm sure it's all in Index Medicus...)
    
    The technique commonly used is to present an industry-positive picture
    by leaving out key information.  Most consumers are snowed by degrees,
    titles, and publication lists.  But anyone who has done extensive
    bibliographic work knows that there is a big difference between reading
    someone's conclusions and their abstract, and reading the whole study
    and being able to evaluate their methodology.  In many cases too small
    a sample was studied to be able to generalize, or the sample was not
    weighted sufficiently to be able to generalize to the larger
    population.
    
    I cannot discuss biochemistry, so I won't try, but everything I've read
    here has made me feel skeptical.  
    
    And I don't eat sugar or refined carbohydrates, so I have little
    interest in such a product anyway!  I would much rather monitor what
    goes in my mouth than to try to manipulate the biochemistry after the
    fact!
    
    Holly
    

    Mr. Allen,
    
    are you still there?  I would like to know how much weight you lost on
    this, and how long you were able to keep it off ...
    
    thanks.
    
    
    mary