Conference rocks::weight_control

People laugh for a lot of reasons... many of which are that they just
don't understand that which they are laughing at.  A slim person might
find an overweight, clumsy person very comical not having ever been on
the recieving end of such treatment.... it is unfair but you can't let
the ignorance of a few get you down.

My grandfather was a very big man... BUT he could dance the night away..
my granmother said he was the lightest man on his feet she had ever
danced with.  She said he could kick his foot up and touch the door 
frame when he was showing off.  Now does that sound like a man that let
the laughter of others get him down?  Hardly... when they laughed he
laughed with them!.. he knew his worth and he knew that life did not
end because he was heavy.

gailann

    Ann,
    
    A lot of people in this conference have addressed the issue of self 
    image apart from weightloss.  As it has been said, whether you are
    overweight or not is not the problem, but rather how you feel about
    yourself.  People who laugh (fat or thin) are usually suffering
    from the same low self-esteem that many overweight people deal with.
    Unfortunately, the only way to elevate themselves and their
    accomplishments is to push someone beneath them.  It's not fair,
    but most people do it on some level or another.  Others are put
    down because of their social status, the way they talk, their
    educational status, etc.   Ignorance is usually the instigator of
    the laughter or feelings of superiority.  People have a tendency
    to snub their noses at others who have problems when they feel that
    they would never and could never be "like that".  However, as it
    says in I Corinthians 10:12, "Wherefore, let him that think he 
    stands take heed, lest he fall",  meaning that none of us should
    get too caught up in ourselves and our ability, for given the same
    circumstances as someone else, we would probably be worse off because
    of our haughty attitudes.  So, don't worry so much about other people.
    You have to work on your attitudes about yourself and constantly
    tell yourself that eventhough you have not remained in control of
    your life in the past, that the future does not have to be that
    way.  It won't be easy to be in control because the mind likes to
    pretend that the body is suffering too much, and the body agrees
    by whining and throwing a few temper tantrums.  However, your spirit
    (the real you, the part that wants to be thin) must remain in control.
    No matter what others say about your character, you must determine
    in your spirit that you can and will be in control.  People will
    be cruel regardless.  Just keep looking up and maintain a positive
    self talk.   You have what it takes.
        
    D.

    
    Remember, too, that people will often laugh in embarassing situations. 
    It is a completely natural reaction.  Next time you see something like
    that, look at the laughers' faces.  Do they look uncomfortable or
    amused?  Sadly, this doesn't make it easier for the one who's doing 
    the embarassing thing, but I think folks in general are less accusatory
    than they seem.
    
    Ann, you keep asking these questions -- "Why do people do this?" and
    "Tell me what it's like when you've lost the weight."  They're good
    questions, and they've got good answerrs, but you need to find the
    reasons in your own life.  Try to identify what makes you fail, then
    find a way around it.  Don't expect to be perfect: work *with* your
    weaknesses.
    
    If there's one place you go out of control, avoid it, or take a friend
    whenever you have to go there.  If it's home, clean out all the
    "forbidden" foods, then don't go food shopping alone.  Once new habits
    are established, you can ease up a bit, but be ready to clamp down
    again if you need to.
    
    Beverly
    

    
    
    RE 3:  Beverly I ask the questions not just for myself but for others
    that may be wondering.. I have been heavy for along time so it's
    good to know before you get there.. 
    
    I had a girl friend that couldn't handle her weight loss 
    and it may scare some people.. 
    
    Thanks for you help..
    
    
    No harm in asking questions
    
    
    Ann
    
    
    
    

    
    
    Thin people are prejudiced against fat people.  I don't know if you
    can even say they don't understand.  They don't want to understand.
    It's just the same as racial prejudices.
    
    I saw a program on PBS not too long ago that talked about prejudices.
    They showed a group of kids a picture of a silhouette of a thin
    person and asked them (they were 7-12 in ages) what they thought
    the person would be like...they all said, has self-confidence, respects
    themself, probably friendly, nice, likes to do things, popular.
    
    They they showed a silhouette of a fat person and the kids said
    stuff like: doesn't like herself, doesn't have respect for herself,
    sloppy, clumsy, doesn't take care of herself, life is centered around
    food, lonley.
    
    How could kids figure out these traits just from a silhouette?  Isn't
    it surprising but truthful when you put faces on the pictures. 
    I know people just like what the kids described in each picture.
    It's too bad size/weight has so much to do with a person's self-esteem
    and representation of themself and that their are prejudices against 
    heavier people.

    
    
    re: 1 
    
    Gailann Its funny how you wrote how your grandfather was light on
    his feet because people are always saying how light I am on my 
    feet.. I don't like to brag but they say ghee your a great dancer
    can you teach me.. I have more people asking me to teach them how..
    
    I never took a dancing lesson in my life..
    
    I do love dancing but I really don't have friends that do.. So itls
    hard to go places by yourself.. 
    
    When my group had a Christmas party I we all danced all night and
    it was so much fun,, every muscle was hurting but it was worth it..
    
    I have started putting on music and dance by myself at home .. for
    exercise and I like it...
    
    I am active in doing other things so I don't just sit home.. 
    
    
    Most of my friends like to over eat! Not good for a Weight 
    Watcher!
    
    
    
    Ann
    
    
    

    RE: .-1
    
    I agree that many people are prejudiced against fat people, but I don't
    think your example shows prejudice.  When someone says "You're fat,
    therefor you must be stupid/rude/unpleasant, that's prejudice. 
    Prejudice is generally based on ignorance (lack of experience).
    
    These kids are matching the silhouettes with their own experiences. 
    Your average fat person *isn't* popular or high in self-esteem.  Sloppy
    and clumsy don't always hold, but I do know that even when I've taken
    great care with my clothes, jewelry, and make-up, I still *feel* sloppy
    if I'm fat.
    
    It's worth noting that the kids didn't say that the fat person wasn't
    nice or friendly.  That would've been prejudice.  It sounds to me like
    they were just being perceptive.
    
    Beverly
    

    Hmmm.  This may not be what you want to hear, but...
    
    Isn't it true that, if you're overweight and don't have a
    medical reason why you are overweight, that you really AREN'T
    taking good care of yourself?  And, in general, isn't it true
    that overweight people have less energy, more health problems,
    more depression, etc, than they would were they thin? Aren't
    overweight folks REALLY more clumsy than they would be if they
    were at their correct weight?
    
    Sure, there are examples of non-clumsy overweight people, and
    of clumsy thin people, but look at the generalities.  Take
    a hard look at how you fit into them.  There are good reasons
    why people think these things of overweight people - many of them
    are usually true.
    
    It still does not excuse rudeness, and it still hurts.  I know that.
    I feel sad every time I see people who are very overweight - I
    want to go up to them and, well, I guess it verges on wanting
    to convert them to doing what I did.  "None so holy as the newly
    saved."  My thoughts are with each of you who is fighting this
    battle now.  You CAN win - and you will!
    
    --Louise

    
    
    Louise,
    
    I am very overweight but I am lite on my feet.. I can dance too
    and I mean kick my heels up and move!!  People ask me to teach
    them how to dance.. 
    Also my pastor one time said ghee Ann you are very Graceful 
    and lite on your feet I never heard you coming.. 
    But 2 small Children were walking by and they sounded like 20
    People..
    
    
    Remember if a person points a finger at you they are pointing 
    three right back at themselves...
    
    And I say NO Way does someone have a right to put down anyone
    may they be Fat or any other reason.. 
    
    My Pastor also told me once that it's not the Heavy persons falt
    if that person can't excepted them.. That person has the 
    Hang up not the FAT person!!
    
    You know a Overeaters problem is there for the whole world
    to see.. But we don't cause accidents ...and it's the 
    hardest problem because we have to eat to live!
    
    
    It's learning new eating habits and the support you
    get from this time that will do it for you.. 
    
    But we really have to want to change to but if we don't
    we don't need to be made fun of because of it..
    
    Fat People are Good People too!
    
    
    Ann
    
    
    

I'm new to this conference and I have about 21 pounds to lose. Not very 
much as compared to a lot of others in this conference but its still a 
challenge. 

I have read a lot of different notes from different people in the last 
couple of weeks. The reason I am replying to this particular note is 
because I can't help feeling that the author, Ann, feels sorry herself. 
I am not a psychologist but so many of the notes written have that tone to 
them. For example:

< Note 193.9 by NHL::ARNO >    
    
>    I am very overweight but I am lite on my feet..    
    
>    You know a Overeaters problem is there for the whole world
>    to see.. But we don't cause accidents     
    
>    But we really have to want to change to but if we don't
>    we don't need to be made fun of because of it..


All these "BUTS"....I can't help thinking that you are constantly talking 
yourself out of succeeding. If you don't want people to make fun of you,
or laugh at you then STICK TO THE PLAN! Apply what you learn about eating 
everyday....However I believe you have to stop worrying about people 
laughing at you....you can make it stop...but only YOU can do it!! 
There are plenty of people out there that are supporting you, but you 
have to help yourself also....one of your notes made a comment about 
"wondering if anyone cares if you lost weight"....it shouldn't matter if 
anyone does or doesn't....it only matters when YOU care....cause your the 
only one who can do it...no one can do it for you. We can all pat you 
on the back but we can't modify your eating habits...you alone have to
do that. 

>    Fat People are Good People too!
   
Yes but are they Healthy??? It's health and good eating habits that's the 
issue here...and NOT being fat!!! You seem to always be talking yourself 
into thinking that being Fat is ok!!! It's not ok, and that's why we're 
all trying to do something about it.

Enough said....don't want to hurt any feelings but this issue was gnawing 
at me...
    
Rachelle 

    re .9:
    
    One reason overweight people are "light on their feet" is because
    they don't WANT to be heard a mile away.  Kids are usually having
    too much fun to care if people hear them - they are terribly
    self-conscious of their bodies and don't give a hoot if they stomp
    around.... but if an overweight person were to make noise while
    walking, someone would say "Oh Gawd, here comes Earthquake so and
    so!"
    
    I love to dance too....and I think I dance quite well.  I assume
    I look pretty idiotic up on the dance floor shaking everything I
    got, but I love to dance and it doesn't bother me enough what other
    people think of what I look like to stop doing something I like
    doing that much.  It's the same with swimming.  My WW leader told
    us that when he was overweight, he didn't dare go swimming during
    the daytime.  I love to swim and if people have nothing better to
    do than laugh at me when they see me in a bathing suit, then that's
    their problem.  I like to swim and will do it whether I'm heavy
    or not.  I'm not trying to say that being fat is best for me - that's
    why I'm trying to knock off the extra weight... I'm a third of the
    way there and don't intend on stopping until I get there....

    re .10:
    
    I agree (in principle).  It doesn't matter why "they" laugh.  What
    matters is what we do about it.  And what we in this file are doing
    is changing it.
    
    We have all said encouraging things to each other.  Let's not forget
    to encourage ourselves while we're at it.
    
    Lynn

    This note is getting a lot of action again, with a lot of replies
    that have a good deal of merit to them.
    
    re .10, .12:  Your statement that the best way to deal with the
    problem of getting ridiculed because of one's weigh is to lose the
    weight is, in my opinion, right on the mark.  As Lynn the Thynn
    so succicntly put it, "Don't like it?  Change it!".
    
    re .11:  Kristy, glad to hear that you do not let your current weight
    prevent you from doing the things you enjoy and want to do (i.e.,
    swimming).  Given your positive attitude and the fact that you swim
    regularly, I unquestionably believe that you WILL achieve your goal. 
                                
    re .13:  Yes Ann, I'll agree, whatever health related facts about
    overweight people may be true, those are emphatically not justification
    for ridicule.  Hang in there, bear down, and make some significant
    progress with your weightloss program, and then YOU can have the
    last laugh... :-)
    
    
    py

    
    re 15:
    
    I will hope to get the last laugh but I will NEVER LAUGH at anyone
    if they are FAT, HOMELY, WALK FUNNY,  SOMEONE THAT FALLS..like
    others do!!
    
    Don't like it? Yes I don't like people making fun or people
    or animals or older people......................
    
    
    Alot of older people get picked on.. and I know of some very
    skinny people that people laugh at too.. Like my Pastor was
    the skinnest and smallest one in his class and the only 
    FRIEND HE HAD and was a good friend was a Fat GIRL.
    
    AND you know something ? Today my Pastor is taller and stronger
    then any of them and he can out run and do more then anyone 
    that made fun of him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    How do you like those Apples!
    
    
    Ann
    
    
    Irish Italian blood is working!
    
    

I knew I would get a few responses from my 'editorial'....

I also never laugh at people's problems. I just get the feeling here 
that some people are always on the defensive about their problems and 
this (overweightness) problem CAN be dealt with. But it must be done 
by each individual him or herself. I don't like it if someone laughs 
about someone being ugly, handicapped or any other shortcoming for 
which a person has no control over changing. But the problem of 
being overweight can be overcome. Stop wasting energy defending 
the fact that you are overweight and concentrate that energy on 
changing the fact that you are overweight. It is in your power and your 
power only!!

You cannot stop people from laughing. You have no control over 
others insensitivity to others...so why cahnnel so much energy 
complaining about it....your complaining will not make it go away. 
Just like the fact I don't laugh at other's problems wont stop 
another person from being insensitive and laughing....

Rachelle

    
    Ann,
    
    We can only create change within our "sphere of influence".   For
    most of us, our influence is restricted to the work place, family,
    and for some of us, religious organizations.  By you expressing
    your feelings about people who laugh, maybe someone in this notes
    conference will be able to take a good look at themself and their
    actions towards fat, elderly, etc. people.  You CAN help to change
    them. ( The world could actually be changed for the better if all
    those who feel as you do would communicate this to people within
    their "sphere of influence", and so on, and so on. )
    
    Evenso, within this conference, people are trying to deal with each
    other, not necessarily the "world at large", therefore your notes
    are often misunderstood.  We cannot help the woman in the restaurant
    who broke a chair to feel better about herself and to deal with
    her weight problem (if it is a problem).  We can help those who 
    "note" and are having problems of their own.  If you really want to 
    express the needs of other people, maybe you should become available 
    to enter anonymous notes.  It's hard for "noters" to respond to notes 
    and to people when the situations presented don't necessarily reflect 
    anything of the writer's experience.  I read this file regurlarly and 
    have also assumed that everything you write, unless otherwise stated, 
    pertains to you.  People here are trying to help one another.  If people
    laugh at YOU, then others can help you to deal with it and your
    own problem.  We cannot stop the world from laughing or people from
    hurting.  We CAN do all we can to affect the people we KNOW.
    
    I don't know if I'm making sense, but I just don't think that responses
    which defend the world from "noters'" comments are appropriate in
    this forum of personal contact.

    re .17:
    
    Right, Rachelle.  My point exactly.
    
    We often say, "Well, if someone is making fun of me, that's not
    my problem - that's THEIR problem."  That's not necessarily true.
    If their making fun of us is hurting us, it IS our problem.  And
    it's useless to fume at them...they probably don't even think about
    how they're affecting us.  The problem is ours because we're the
    ones who are hurting.  Therefore, since it is our problem, we are
    the only ones who can do something about.
    
    End of lecture.
    
    Lynn
    
    P.S. - This works in other areas of our lives, too.  Just remember,
           if it affects us, it IS our problem, and we're the only one
           who can change it.

    
    
    RE.19
    
    Alot of people have hang ups and alot of people can't excepted 
    people for what they are..I still say NO HAS THE RIGHT TO PUT ANY
    ONE DOWN...
    
    I believe that the FAT person or anyother person being put down
    Nows they are that !  But the person that is making the laughing
    statement..They have to laugh at Others so they can feel good 
    about themselves!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
    
    
    I heard a serman and they Priest said Don't laugh at the
    FAT lady because God loves her too..He said be careful what
    you say.......Because someday someone may say something to you
    that you wouldn't like!!
    
    
    No matter if we all lose weight or if we all gain weight
    we are all Special  ... 
    
    Ann
    
    
    

    re .20:
    
    >    Alot of people have hang ups and alot of people can't excepted 
    >	 people for what they are..I still say NO HAS THE RIGHT TO PUT ANY
    >	 ONE DOWN...
                                                 
    
    Ann, no one is disputing that.
    
    I think you may be misinterpreting what Rachelle and Lynn are saying
    in their replies.
    
    Another way of wording their point:  It's not worth wasting your
    time and energy to worry too much about what people who have nothing
    better to do than make fun of fat people have to say.  There are always
    going to be ignorant people in the world; nothing that you or I
    or anyone can do will change that.  Although what such people say
    does hurt, it's better to just do the best you can to ignore that
    hurt and keep enough energy focused on your weightloss program --
    the one thing that will stop the insults and put downs.
    
    
    py             

    re .21:
    
    Bravo, Paul!
    
    That's EXCACTLY what I was trying to say!
    
    Lynn

    
    
    Ok.. I toss in my towel .. I'll use my energy else where but 
    I can't help my feelings for others as well..
    
    If I can put a smile on someones face that is hurting and needs
    a friend.. That to me is the nicest gift of all.
    
    Don't make fun reach out and be their friend!
    
    Ann
    
    

    
    
    I saw a talk show and Liz Taylor was on it telling about
    her weightloss and all..
    
    She was saying that she didn't care for the put downs
    that Joan Rivers said about her and liz was saying a person
    is overweight because they have a problem and that fat person
    has enough problems without being putting them down. She said she
    didn't like it one at all and put a STOP to it.
    
    She said the Heavy person needs support not to be put down at that
    time.
    
    I liked what Liz said and I feel that is what I was trying to say.
    
    
    
    Ann
    
    

  I believe that that is what you were trying to say Ann, but the way Liz
    put a stop to it was by losing the extra weight, not by saying "poor 
    me, everyone's laughing at me because I'm fat".  I hate people who 
    thrive on hurting other people, be they too skinny, overweight, one 
    eye, three arms, whatever.  I agree that NO ONE has the right to put 
    overweight people down, but crying/complaining about the people who 
    are cruel because we're not as perfect as they are isn't going to
    change them.  If you want the laughing and hurtful digs to stop,
    you have to change yourself and take away the ammo that they see
    in you to pick on.  I've been picked on all my life because I'm
    heavy.  I don't like being put down, being called names, etc.  My
    self-esteem has been driven quite low over the years to the point
    where I find it very difficult to accept a congratulations on a
    job well done or any compliment.   But I have learned to love myself,
    even when it seems like no one else in the world does.  I have the
    support of everyone in this file and that helps.  We've all been
    in the same overweight boat at one time or another, so we can identify
    with all the troubles that we go through.  I'm here for every one
    of you as well as for myself.
    
    						*** Kristy ***

    I don't understand the title of this topic.  Can someone please
    explain?  Or is it what I think it is?
    
    ktlam....

    Discussion of prejudice as I understand it... (see .5)
    
    
    /andy/moderator