[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference rocks::weight_control

Title: Weight Loss and Maintenance
Notice:**PLEASE** enter notes in mixed case (CAPS ARE SHOUTING)!
Moderator:ASICS::LESLIE
Created:Tue Jul 10 1990
Last Modified:Tue Jun 03 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:933
Total number of notes:9931

164.0. "Pritikin/McDougall" by CSC32::G_MCINTOSH () Tue Dec 01 1987 16:44

    Well, I have read this notes file for awhile and now feel compelled
    to speak up.  Let me put to you that God didn't make a mistake and
    make your hunger drive, or appetite, too large for your body.  I
    assure you that your hunger drive IS the correct proportion for
    your needs.  It's simply that Americans have money.  We are in fact,
    the most affluent society on the face of the earth, and therefore
    we eat FEAST FOODS 21 times a week.  We eat food that was meant
    for special occasions 3 times a day, 7 days a week and the result
    is ABSOLUTELY crystal clear.  Look at our rates of arthritis,
    osteoporosis, cancer, heart disease, bad teeth, acne, etc.
    What is the CAUSE of our obesity?  Stomach too bid?  Should we go
    under the knife and have our stomachs made smaller?  Should we have
    a baloon device inflated into our stomachs?  Did God really screw
    up?  No.....
    
    There is a correct diet designed for man, just like there's a correct
    diet for cattle, horses, fish, cats, and all the other creatures
    on the earth, and that correct diet, the one that supports health
    to the fullest (and not only weight control, but the other diseases
    listed above) is a diet centered around starch (potatoes, rice,
    pasta) with side dishes of fruit and vegetables.  Note that the
    main staple is starch!  Pritikin told you, McDougall told you.
    Meat, dairy products, cheeses, eggs, etc are fine, but as feast
    foods and not 21 times a week.
    
    I have no doubt that many of you will disagree with me.  I'm prepared
    to answer any questions I can.
    
    Glenn 

T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
164.1Oh yea!CSC32::G_MCINTOSHTue Dec 01 1987 16:5318
    One more note....this is NOT a diet of starvation.  You're not trying
    to defeat your natural hunger drive.  When eating the right foods,
    you eat as much as you want, whenever you want.  I believe this
    food combination idea is hogwash.  Eat as much as you want, whenever
    you want, but eat the right things!  Note that food is merely fuel.
    Fuel your body correctly, and you won't have overweight problems,
    osteoporosis in women is a direct cause of too much protein in the
    diet, which changes the physiology of the kidneys and causes calcium
    to be washed away in the urine.  The fix isn't to take in more calcium
    (although upjohn and the other pill pushers are thrilled with this
    thought), the answer is to reduce the protein in the diet.
    
    The proper diet is high in carbohydrates, high in fiber, naturally
    low in calories (but you shouldn't care about this anymore),low
    in fat, no cholesterol (animal products), naturally low in protein.
    
    Glenn

164.2welcomeBUSY::MAXMIS11Tue Dec 01 1987 16:5512
    Glenn,
    
    I'm with you, kid.  It is a dificult concept to digest [;^)] but
    very true.  I have lost 68 pounds since last March mearly by changeing
    the kind of food I eat.  Though I do not eat the "feast" foods you
    list at all because of allergies, I have read the McDougal Plan
    and the book Diet for a Small Planet.  I now eat far more in volume
    than I have ever eaten in my life, but in doing so I am nourishing
    my body, not just feeding it.
    
    Marion

164.3Great!CSC32::G_MCINTOSHTue Dec 01 1987 17:107
    Wait a minute.....I was prepared to be bombarded with arguements
    and threats on my childrens lives, etc.  not with agreement.  You've
    taken the wind out of my sails.....Actually, I'm thrilled for you.
    Congratulations.
    
    Glenn

164.4You just watch! QBUS::WOODMet him on a MondayTue Dec 01 1987 17:2312
    
    Glenn...
    
    	Here's another agreement!  I eat pretty much like you said,
    too, altho a few sweets still sneak in there now and then......
    but I'm not as bad about them as I used to be.  ANd it's working!
    	
    	You'll be hearing more as I proceed to lose and get down to
    my goal. 
    
    	Myra

164.5???????BUSY::MAXMIS11Tue Dec 01 1987 17:2420
    
    Actually, Glenn, I think you'll find that there is quite a cross
    section of diet philosophies present here.  That's one of the reasons
    that I enjoy this conference.  I read - I learn - I profit from
    everybody's experiences.  Everybody here seems to  "be there"
    for each other, and that's very important.  I think we all know
    that what works for the individual is the ticket.  One thing we
    all will agree upon, however, and that is that the only good pound
    is a lost pound!
    
    I do have questions, Glenn.  Have you been overweight?  If so,
    did you loose it by the plans mentioned?  Does your entire family
    eat that way?  How about your [so far unthreatened ;^D] kids?  
    How did you come across your eating philosophy?  How did you handle
    Thanksgiving?  I'll probably think of a million questions later,
    so get set, OK?  I have not talked to anybody before that saw the
    plans mentioned as a weight loss method.
    
    Marion

164.67 day tryout!CSC32::G_MCINTOSHTue Dec 01 1987 17:51405
    For those of you who may want to try the McDougall Plan for 7 days,
    I'm inserting a Sample Seven-Day Menu Plan, and necessary recipes.
    
    Day 1
    Breakfast
       Oatmeal 
       Herbal tea
    Midmorning Snack
       orange or apple and/or rice
    Lunch
       1 piece of whole wheat pita bread cut in half and stuffed with
       lettuce, tomatoes, other vegetables such as cucumbers, grated carrots,
       radishes, onion, sprouts.
       Spoon some Ortega green chili salsa over top if desired
       1 fruit such as apple, banana, orange or 1/2 papaya or grapefruit
       Herbal tea or water
    Midafternoon Snack
       Raw vegetables such as carrots, celery or zucchini
    Dinner
       Fried rice (use rice you prepared earlier in the day)
       Tossed green salad
       French tomato dressing for salad (make in the afternoon before
       dinner;refrigerate before serving).
       Corn on the cob - either fresh or frozen (follow directions on bag,
       no salt in water).
    Evening snack
       1 apple
       Raw vegetables as desired
       Herbal tea
       
    Day 2
    Breakfast
       Cracked wheat or 4-grain cereal
       Herbal tea or juice
    Midmorning snack
       1 orange or apple and/or potato or rice
    Lunch
       1 piece whole wheat pita bread or leftover brown rice covered
       with split peas on toast.  Takes about 1 hour.  May be prepared
       early in the morning and reheated.
       1 fruit - apple, banana, or orange
       Water
    Midafternoon snack
       Raw vegetables
    Dinner
       Marinara tomato sauce
       Whole wheat spaghetti noodles or buckwheat soba noodles
       Whole wheat bread
       Salad - lettuce, sprouts, onions, cucumber
       French tomato dressing
       Water
    Evening snack
       1 orange or 1/2 grapefruit
       Raw vegetables
       Herbal tea
    
    Day 3
    Breakfast
       Oatmeal
       Herbal tea
    Midmorning snack
       1 banana
       Potato or leftover rice
    Lunch
       1 whole wheat pita bread, cut in half, spread with cold leftover
       split pea recipe and stuffed with tomatoes, lettuce, or sprouts.
       Raw vegetables as desired.
       1 fruit - apple, orange, papaya, banana, pear
       Herbal tea or water
    Midafternoon snack
       Raw vegetables
    Dinner
       Vegetable soup
       1 whole wheat pita bread or 1 cup leftover brown rice
       Lettuce salad-lettuce, assorted chopped vegetables
       French tomato dressing
       Water
    Evening snack
       Raw vegetables
       1 fruit
       Herbal tea
    
    Day 4
    Breakfast
       Roman Meal or Zoom hot cereal
       Herbal tea
    Midmorning snack
       1 fruit and/or potato or leftover rice
    Lunch
       Leftover vegetable soup
       Special whole wheat bread or whole wheat pita bread
       Raw vegetables as desired
       Water
    Midafternoon snack
       Raw vegetables
    Dinner
       Vegetable curry with brown rice
       Whole wheat chapati (pita bread)
       Vegetable salad - lettuce and assorted raw vegetables
       French tomato dressing or lemon and/or vinegar
       Water
    Evening snack
       1 fruit
       Raw vegetables
       Herbal tea 
    
    Day 5
    Breakfast
       Zoom or Roman Meal hot cereal
       Herbal tea
    Midmorning snack
       1 fruit and/or potato or leftover rice
    Lunch
       Leftover vegetable curry over baked potato, brown rice or whole
       wheat pita bread.  Garnish with sprouts
       1 fruit
       Water
    Midafternoon snack
       Raw vegetables
    Dinner 
       Tamale pie
       Assprted raw vegetable platter
       Chili salsa for dip
       Water
    Evening Snack
       1 fruit
       raw vegetables
       herbal tea
    
    Day 6
    Breakfast
       Oatmeal
       herbal tea
    Midmorning snack
       1 fruit and/or potato or leftover rice
    Lunch
       Leftover fried rice
       Assorted raw vegetables with chili salsa for dip
       1 fruit
       Herbal tea or water
    Midafternoon snack
       Raw vegetables
    Dinner
       Buckwheat soba noodles
       Vegetable chop suey
       Frozen Oriental-style mixed vegetables (follow directions on
       bag, no salt or butter)
       Water
    Evening snack
       Assorted raw vegetables
       1 fruit
       herbal tea
    
    Day 7
    Breakfast
       Oatmeal
       Herbal tea
    Midmorning snack
       1 fruit and/or potato or leftover rice
    Lunch
       Tomato-onion soup
       Whole wheat bread
       Assorted raw vegetables
       Water
    Midafternoon snack
       Raw vegetables
    Dinner
       Vegetable stew
       Brown rice
       Green salas-lettuce with assorted raw vegetables
       Water
     Evening snack
       Raw vegetables
       1 fruit
       Herbal tea
    
                          
    Needed recipes:
    
    Fried Rice  	Servings:4
    Preparation Time:15 mins		Cooking Time:20 mins
    
    3 cups mixed vegetables, chopped
    (ex:carrots, onions, broccoli; 1 cup each
    green pepper, carrots, bean sprouts; 1 cup each
    carrots, bean sprouts, green onions; 1 cup each)
    1/4 cup water
    2 cups cooked brown rice
    1 tbsp salt-reduced tamari
    1/2 tsp dry mustard
    1/2 tsp ground ginger
    
    Mix mustard and ginger with 1/4 cup water in a large soup pot. 
    Heat to boiling.  Add vegetables and cook over medium heat until
    tneder (about 10-15 minutes).  Use a wok if you have one.  If the
    vegetables are cut in small strips they will cook faster.  Add the
    cooked rice; stir until heated.  Add the tamari.  Mix well.  Continue
    cooking until heated through. (1-2 minutes)                   
    
    Helpful Hints:  This will serve two hungry people for a fast, complete
    meal.  Any combination of vegetables may be used.  Just keep the
    pieces small so they cook quickly.
    
    
    Thick French Tomato Dressing    Servings: about 2 1/2 cups
    Preperation time: 5 mins		Cooking time:  None
    
    1 cup tomato juice
    1 cup tomato sauce
    1/3 cup vinegar
    3/4 tsp lemon juice
    1 tsp Italian herb seasoning
    1 tsp low-sodium tamari
    
    Combine all ingredients in a quart jar.  Cover.  Shake well.
    Refrigerate before serving to blend flavors.
    
    Helpful Hints:  Italian herb seasoning is a mixture of oregano,
    marjoram, thyme, savory, basil, rosemary, and sage.  Usually found
    made by Schilling or Spice Island.  Use dressing on tossed salads
    or vegetable salads.  Keeps in refrigerator for several weeks.
    
    Marinara Spaghetti Sauce     Servings:4
    Preparation Time: 20 mins		Cooking Time: 60 mins
    
    2 onions, chopped
    4 cloves garlic, crushed
    1/2 lb mushrooms, chopped
    4 cups tomato sauce
    2 cups canned tomatoes
    2 tsp oregano
    1 tsp basil
    1 1/2 tbsp parsley flakes
    
    Saute onions, garlic and mushrooms in 1/4 cup water until slightly
    tender, about 10 minutes.  Stir in tomato sauce, tomatoes, and spices,
    breaking up tomatoes with a fork.  Simmer over low heat about 1
    hour, stirring occasionally.  Do not cover.  Serve over whole wheat
    spaghetti.
    
    Helpful Hints:  May be made ahead and reheated.  Freezes well. 
    May be cooked lnoger than 1 hour if you like sauces thicker.  Also
    try over whole grains, whole wheat macaroni, or whole wheat shells.
     This recipe may be doubled easily for guests or to have leftovers
    to greeze.  Makes a good topping for baked potatoes.
    
    Vegetable Soup   Servings:8-10
    
    Preparation time:  30 mins		Cooking time: 45 mins
    
    10 cups water
    2 pototoes, cut in medium sized chunks
    1/4 cup tamari, salt-reduced
    1 tsp basil
    1 tsp thyme
    2 carrots sliced
    2 onions, sliced
    2 zucchini, chopped medium
    2-3 tomatoes, chopped
    2 cloves garlic, crushed
    1/2 tsp onion powder 
    1 cup string beans, cut in 1 inch pieces 
    1 tsp oregano
    1/2 tsp cumin
    1/2 tsp dill weed
    1 tbsp parsley flakes
    
    Place 10 cups of water in a large pot.  Add chopped vegetables.
    Bring to boil.  Add seasonings.  Simmer over medium-low heat about
    45 minutes.  Variations: user 2 cups tomato juice in place of 2
    cups water.  About 15 minutes before end of cooking time, add cooked
    grains or spaghetti noodles to pot, such as:cooked brown rice, 1
    cup; barley, 1 cup; or 1 cup broken whole wheat spaghetti.
    
    Helpful Hints:  Other vegetables also may be used in addition to
    or in place of the ones listed above.  Try 1/2 cup fresh or frozen
    peas; 1/2 cup fresh or frozen corn, 1 green pepper, chopped; sliced
    leeks; sliced mushrooms; or some chopped spinach added for the last
    5 minutes of cooking time.
    
    
    Tomato-Onion Soup		Servings: about 6 cups
    Preparation Time: 30 mins		Cooking time: 1 1/2 hours
    
    2 onions, diced
    2 leeks, thinly sliced (if leeks are unavailable, use one more onion)
    1 garlic clove, pressed
    4 cups water
    8 large tomatoes, chopped
    2 tbsp chopped parsley
    1 tsp. thyme
    1 bay leaf
    1 tsp basil
    1 tbsp tamari, salt-reduced
    
    Sauted onions, leeks, and garlic in 1/2 cup water until transparent
    (about 15 minutes).  Add the remaining 3 1/2 cups of water, the
    tomatoes, parsley, thyme, basil, and the bay leaf.  Simmer, covered,
    over low heat for 60 minutes.  Remove cover; simmer for 30 minutes
    longer.  Add tamari just before serving. 
    
    Helpful Hints:  This soup is great with fresh, homemade bread. 
    Add a green salad for an interesting meal.  A large can of tomatoes
    (28 ozs.) may be substituted for the fresh tomatoes.
    
    
    Vegetable Curry		Servings: 4-6
    Preparation Time: 30 mins		Cooking Time:  30 mins
    
    2 carrots, sliced 1/4 inch thick
    2 stalks celery, sliced 1/4 inch thick
    2 zucchini, cut in half lengthwise, then sliced 1/2 inch thick
    1 bunch broccoli, cut into stems and flowers
    1 cup fresh or frozen peas
    1/2 head cauliflower, broken into flowerettes
    1 onion, cut in half and thinly sliced
    1 1/2 tbsp curry powder
    4 tbsp whole wheat flour
    3 cups water
    
    Saute the sliced onion in 1/4 cup water until tender.  Add the curry
    powder and the whole wheat flour.  Mix well and continue to stir
    for about 1 minute.  Gradually add the 3 cups of water while stirring.
    Cook over low heat, stirring occasionally, until sauce thickens.
     Steam the carrots and celery for 5 minutes, add the broccoli and
    cauliflower, and steam for 5 minutes longer.  Finally, add the zucchini
    and peas and continue to steam for 10 more minutes.  Place steamed
    vegetables in a serving bowl, pour the curry sauce over them, and
    stir tho make sure the vegetables are coated with the sauce.  Serve
    over brown rice or bulgur wheat.  Makes a good meal with whole wheat
    chapatis.
    
    Tamale Pie		Servings:8
    Preparation Time:45 minutes			Cooking Time:45 mins
    
    3 cups cooked pinto beans, mashed
    1 onion, chopped
    1 1/2 tsp chili powder
    1/4 cup tomato sauce
    1 cup frozen corn
    1 green pepper, chopped
    1-2 chopped green chilis
    1 1/2 cup cornmeal
    2 1/2 cup water
    
    
    Place onion in a large pot with 1/4 cup water.  Saute about 10 minutes,
    add green pepper, corn, green chilis, tomato sauce, and chili powder.
    Cook 5 minutes.  Add mashed beans and cook about 10 minutes over
    low heat.  Remove from heat.
    
    Combine cornmeal, water and chili powder in a saucepan.  Cook over
    medium heat until mixture thickens, stirring constantly with a wire
    whisk or the cornmeal will lump.
    
    Using a non-stick 8x8 pan, spread half of the cornmeal mexture over
    the bottom.  Pur the bean mixture over this and spread it out. 
    Then spread the remaining cornmeal mixture over the top.
    
    Bake at 350 degrees for 45 minutes, or until it bubbles.
    
    
    Vegetable Chop Suey			Servings 6-8
    Preparation Time: 45 min		Cooking Time:30 mins
    
    1/4 cup water
    2 cloves garlic, crushed
    2 onions, sliced
    8-10 leaves Chinese cabbage, sliced
    1 stalk celery, sliced
    1/4 lb broccoli, sliced
    1/4 lb mushrooms, sliced
    1 cup snow peas
    1/2 cup green onions, sliced in 1 inch pieces
    1 cup mung bean sprouts
    2 tbsp low sodium tamari
    2 tbsp sherry
    3 cups water
    5-6 tbsp arrowroot or cornstarch
    
    Put 1/4 cup water into a large pot or wok.  Add crushed garlic and
    heat water to boiling.  Add onions, celery, cabbage, and broccoli.
    Saute about 10 minutes.  Add the mushrooms.  Saute 5 minutes more.
    Add the water, tamari, sherry, green onions, snow peas, and bean
    sprouts.   Bring to a boil and cook about 10 minutes.  Dissolve
    the arrowroot or cornstarch in a small amount of cold water.   Remove
    pot from heat.  Gradually add arrowroot or cornstarch mixture, stirring
    well.  Return to heat.  Stir until thickened.  Serve over brown
    rice, whole wheat spaghetti or buckwheat soba noodles.
    
    Helpful Hints:  Prepare rice before starting to cook vegetables.
    Keep warm until serving.  If you prefer noodles, have the water
    boiling while vegetables are cooking.  About 15 minutes before serving,
    drop the noodles into the boinling water, return to boil, reduce
    heat and simmer about 10 minutes.
    
    
    That's it.  This 7-day plan is extremely low in fat.  Is animal-product
    free, therefore cholesterol free.  Is high in fiber and carbohydrates.   
    Only 7 days.....c'mon....try it!  It's worth it!!
    
    
    Glenn

164.7Partial agreement, partial disagreement.SQM::AITELHelllllllp Mr. Wizard!Tue Dec 01 1987 18:3147
    Well, I'm with you up to a point.  I have managed to greatly
    reduce my weight by limiting the fatty foods and sugars in
    my diet, but I don't think I would be healthy on a vegetarian
    diet.  This is not just conjecture on my part.  I was an
    ovo-lacto veggie for 2 years.  I really did try to balance things,
    ate beans with grains and all the other good stuff, and I was eating
    milk/egg products.  I ended up white - totally anemic.  It was not
    an anemia that they could fix with iron pills, either.  It went
    away in about a month when I introduced fish/poultry/meat into
    my diet.  (I *did* see a doctor, he ran zillions of tests, he
    gave me pills etc etc.  He was astounded at my quick recovery.)
    
    In addition, take a look at eskimos and northern indians.  They
    have very little in the way of vegetable products during a large
    portion of the year.  They eat "what they were meant to eat", and
    they are healthy.  So it's not just the animal products that are
    the real culprit.

    Americans tend to eat very little fish.  We love the fattiest sorts
    of meats, beef and pork.  The FAT in the diet is almost 50% of the
    calories.  If you reduce the fat to 10-20 percent of the diet, and
    eat more carbohydrates, you will be healthier. (this according to
    most sources I've read).  And you need to keep the protein within
    reason.
    
    I would ease into a plan like the McDougall plan.  It is very high
    in fiber, which is good, but you want to increase fiber over a period
    of time or you will spend most of your time in the bathroom and
    the rest of your time running there!  In addition, I would modify
    the plan to contain just a little more protein, with the appropriate
    combinations of grain/bean, grain/nut etc (or any of those
    with milk or eggs, if you want to go part-way veggie) so that you
    do have all the essential aminos (the ones your body cannot
    manufacture).
    
    The plan I followed recommended 2-dairy, 2-protein, 4-veggie/fruit,
    4-grain servings at minimum per day for proper nutrition.  I often
    scanted the dairy and added a high-calcium veggie or two.  Note
    the protein is not simply meat, but includes eggs, nuts, and beans.
    What I found scanted in my prior diet was, amazingly enough, the
    grain group, which I *had* thought was too high calorie.  Now I
    know better!
    
    --Louise

    

164.8CSC32::G_MCINTOSHWed Dec 02 1987 09:2622
    Hi Louise!
    
    You're really hitting an interesting subject when talking about
    the eskimos.  Here's a group of people who eat a GREAT DEAL OF PROTEIN,
    in the form of the meat that they eat (fish, whale, etc) and although
    it's true that they have one of the lowest rates of heart disease
    around, did you know that they have the HIGHEST RATE OF OSTEOPOROSIS
    on the face of the earth?  
    
    We don't have "diseases of deficiencies" in this country.  We have
    "diseases of excess"!  Excess calories causing obesity.  Excess
    fat and cholesterol causing heart disease and strokes.  And excess
    protein causing osteoporosis.  
    
    Regarding nuts, plant foods that are considered delicasies
    are those high in fat such as nuts, seeds, and avocados; and foods
    high in uprotected simple sugars; for example honey, molasses and
    maple syrup.  These delicacy foods are to be reserved for special
    occassions and consumed ONLY BY HEALTHFUL INDIVIDUALS.
                  
    Glenn

164.9A BRIEF SUMMARY OF THE MCDOUGALL PLANCSC32::G_MCINTOSHWed Dec 02 1987 10:3424
    The McDougall Plan ecourages you to adopt the diet and lifestyle
    which BEST SUPPORT your natural tendencies to heal and stay healthy.
    This supportive environment is based around proper foods, moderate
    exercise, adequate sunshine, pure air and water, and surroundings
    comfortable to your psychological wellbeing.
    
    The primary component, the diet, is centered around a variety of
    starchy plant foods such as rice, potatoes, and pastas with the
    addition of fresh or frozen fruits and vegetables.  Animal-derived
    foods and plant products that are refined or otherwise processed
    are not health-supporting and are placed in the category called
    delicacies.  Other plant foods that are also considered delicacies
    are those high in fat such as nuts, seeds, and avocados; and foods
    high in unprotected simple sugars; for example honey, molasses,
    and maple syrup.  These delicacy foods are to be reserved for special
    occasions and consumed only be healthy individuals.  There are relative
    degrees of harmfulness among delicacies.  No portions are recommended
    for the meal plan except that a starch should provide most of the
    calories.  The quantity consumed each day is variable amoung
    individuals and governed by our highly efficient hunger drivers.
    
    
    Glenn

164.10Can you really eat as much as you want?CSC32::FORSMANWed Dec 02 1987 17:4818
    Glenn,
    
    re .1 >When eating the right foods, you eat as much as you want,
          >whenever you want.
    
    Does this mean, if we eat only the foods allowed/recommended in
    the 7 Day Plan (.4), that we don't have to limit our portions?
    
    I, too, would be interested to know if you are following this plan,
    and what kind of results you have had.
    
    So, the Mcdougall plan says no protein other than legumes, and no
    dairy products?
    
    Sounds interesting...
    
    Ginny

164.11YesBUSY::MAXMIS11Thu Dec 03 1987 10:1231
    
    RE:  .10
    
    
    Ginny,
    
    I can't speak for Glenn, but I have been following a similar "program"
    since March.  The answer to your question is an unqualified YES.
    You can eat all that you want of the foods that are listed without
    quantities.  I have never eaten so much in my life as I have since
    March, and I am 68 pounds lighter for it.  It's really strange to
    find that I don't have to feel guilty for snacking or big protions.
    I like the idea of letting your "appistat" tell you when to stop.
    When I first went on the program, this had a strange effect on me.
    I would eat big protions almost as if to test the theory.  I lost
    weight anyhow.  Then I went through a time when I would eat what
    I wanted within the boundaries of the program, and then I would
    avoid getting weighed because I subconciously felt as if I had been
    over eating.  Then I'd get on the scale after a couple of weeks
    of putting off getting weighed only to find that I had dropped 3
    pounds.  The weight seems to stay off, too.  Just recently I went
    thru a phase where I was indulging in peanuts and tahini and those
    foods that are termen "delecasies" much too often.  I did this for
    six or so weeks.  Even after loosing 63 pounds and after "misbehaveing"
    for six weeks, my weight gain was only 3 pounds.  For me, at least,
    I know I have found a real life long way of eating.  I have a "healthy"
    appitite, and I have found a way to eat the way my body is telling
    me to, and be thin too.  For me, size 10 is an eventuallity.
    
    Marion

164.12EATCSC32::G_MCINTOSHThu Dec 03 1987 10:3345
    Ginny,
    
    Dr. John McDougall says simply that your hunger drive is correct,
    therefore, if you're hungry.....then eat!  There's no problem there.
    
    Here's a quote from page 22....
    
    "A short study of a calorie chart will help us understand why people
    on starch-centered diests stay so thin.  A cup of cooked rice (150
    grams) contains 178 calories, which is about 1.2 calories per gram
    of rice.  This is approximately 1/3 the number of calories found
    in an equivalent amount of beef (3.9 calories per gram) or cheese
    (4.0 calories per gram).  An average active adult male burns 3,000
    calories per day.  To maintain his weight he would need to consume
    35 potatoes or 17 cups of rice a day.  Eating all those potatoes
    or that much rice would be time-consuming, but certainly not an
    impossible task.
    
    In developed countries, people are overweight because they eat too
    little starch.  Instead, they consume mostly high-calorie fats and
    oils in the form of meat, milk, cheese, nuts, seeds, and vegetable
    oils.  Correcting the misconception that starches are fattening
    would quickly and dramatically improve the appearence and health
    of people in western countries.
    
    Foods are composed of 5 major ingredients:
    	1. Fats, 9 calories per gram
    	2. Proteins, 4 calories per gram
    	3. Carbohydrates, 4 calories per gram
    	4. Water, 0 calories per gram
    	5. Fiber, 0 calories per gram"
    
    Now, with regards to me.....I'm 32, 5'10" and about 250 lbs.  I
    know in my mind, "intellectually" if you will, that this is the
    absolute correct diet for "man".  I have a terribly hard time staying
    on it for anytime longer than about 1.5 weeks.  Other than weight
    loss, the biggest thing I notice when I'm on it is that I can run
    my finger over my forehead in the afternoon and there will be NO
    oil on my face whatsoever.  It was incredible.  So the bottom line
    is that I love the diet, I believe in the diet, I try terribly hard,
    but it's hard to break 30 years of eating habits and that's where
    I stumble.  Does that make sense?  What do you think?
    
    Glenn

164.13butREGAL::ACKERMANThu Dec 03 1987 16:3610
    >>>>"your hunger drive is correct, therefore, if you're hungry.
    . then eat!">>>>
    
    Does this program make you realize that there are times when you
    want to eat but you aren't really hungry?  I think one of the problems
    is that we don't always stop and say, "Am I really hungry?  Do I
    really want this?"
    
    --Laura

164.14CSC32::G_MCINTOSHFri Dec 04 1987 09:466
    Not really Laura.  That's a psychological problem.  Cravings is
    also, according to McDougall, a psychological issue.  He says just
    wait it through and it'll pass for most people.
    
    Glenn

164.15It really *IS* trueBUSY::MAXMIS11Fri Dec 04 1987 11:3033
    
    re:   .13,  .14
    
    Laura,
    
    Glenn is right.  What you are talking about is a psycholigical problem,
    but I wouldn't dismiss it.  As I stated before, when I first started
    the program, I ate big portions and snacked almost to show that
    the plan didn't work - that you couldn't really eat all you wanted.
    The result was that I *did* drop the weight, inspite of the volume
    I ate.  That really blew my mind.  Then, when I would avoid getting
    weighed because I felt that I had been stuffing myself and was afraid
    I'd find I had gained, I was even more blown away by the fact that
    I continued to lose.  I think that realization did something to
    my mind.  To realize that even if I eat when I am "not hungry" will
    not cause me to gain weight and will probable only slow my progress
    is something that is not easely assimilated by a chronicly overweight
    person.  I seems to me that the program causes my body to take from
    the food whatever it needs, and it dumps the rest out the other
    end.  No kidding.  That's what it feels like.  It seems that the
    knowledge that eating a bit more will not be self defeating has
    broken the cycle of "I eat 'cause I am depressed 'cause I am fat".
    So, I don't eat as much as I did when I started the program.  Is
    it because my body doesn't crave food because it is well nourished?
    Is it because I no longer associate being fat with the volume
    I eat???  I'm not sure which is the case.  All I know is that I
    am getting thinner every day, and I am eating in a manner that I
    will have little trouble continuing for the rest of my life.  Sounds
    like a lifestyle change to me!
                                                                        
    Marion  (future skinny lady)
                                

164.16.15 continuedBUSY::MAXMIS11Fri Dec 04 1987 11:5524
    Another problem that I have always had is eating when I feel deprived,
    which is what I *always* felt when I was on a diet.  It was just
    a matter of time befor I would feel that I had been _so_ deprived
    for _so_ long, I would go off my diet and negate any progress I
    had made.  My feeling of being deprived was not limited to food,
    though I always would compensate for the deprivation with food.
    I would eat when I felt that I was not getting the [fill in the
    blank] I deserved.  You could fill in that blank with things like
    money, respect, popularity, satisfaction, sex, recognition, love,
    get the picture?  Anyhow, now when I am feeling that I am not getting
    the [fill in the blank] I deserve, I actually say to myself "Poor
    baby.  You're feeling deprived, aren't you.  Well, why don't you
    throw an eggplant quarter under the broyler and have a V-8 and a
    rice cake".  After I do that, I *do* feel better.  I know that even
    if I am not getting the [fill in the blank] I deserve, I have just
    nurished my body with vitamins and minerals and fiber, all for around
    (or perhaps under) 100 calories (this information only supplied
    for those of you who count those nasty beasties ;^)).  Then "poor
    baby" feels better because she had done something that is genuinely
    good for her!
    
    Marion  (aka "poor baby")
                             

164.17Book on McDougal diet?BIGMAC::HEMBERTMon Dec 07 1987 11:206
    I'd like to learn more about this McDougal diet. Is there a book
    that treats the subject in detail? Has anyone the title/editor?
    
    Fransou
    

164.18Books...CSC32::G_MCINTOSHMon Dec 07 1987 12:1024
    Fransou,
    
    There are actually 4 books on the McDougall diet.  Dr John McDougall
    and his wife, Mary, wrote all 4.
    
         1.  The McDougall Plan - (the basics to his "health-supporting"
                                   diet and lifestyle)                                 
    
         2.  McDougall Medicine - A Challenging Second Opinion  (pretty
                                  much the same information as the
                                  McDougall Plan, but broken up as per
                                  disease.  If you have this disease,
                                  this is how you got it and this is
                                  how you get rid of it.)
    
         3.  McDougall Health Supporting Cookbook I - (about 250 recipes
                                  that are "health supporting".
    
    	 4.  McDougall Health Supporting Cookbook II- (more recipes)
    
    They're all excellent books.  The publisher is New Century.
    
    Glenn   

164.19Ooops.CSC32::G_MCINTOSHMon Dec 07 1987 12:1224
    I was told that I didn't include the recipe for Split Peas on Toast,
    so I will do that now.
    
    Split Peas on Toast		Servings:6
    Preparation Time:20 mins		Cooking Time: 1hr.
    
    4 cups water
    1 onion, chopped
    1 potato, scrubbed (not peeled) and chopped
    1 cup dry yellow split peas
    1 carrot, grated
    1 tsp. basil
    1/4 tsp dill 
    
    Bring water to boil in large saucepan.  Add the onion, potato, and
    split peas.  Simmer for 45 minutes.  Add grated carrot and basil.
    Simmer for 15 minutes.  Serve over toasted whole grain bread.
    
    Helpful hinst:  Also may be made with green split peas.  Good over
    waffles or cooked whole grains.

    Glenn

164.20frozen foodsCSC32::G_MCINTOSHMon Dec 07 1987 12:2515
    FYI
    
    McDougall Frozen Foods are now in the Hawaiian markets.  They've
    developed 5 frozen foods.  Each 22 ounce package contains low-sodium,
    low-fat, high-fiber, high-carbohydrates and no-cholesterol.  Choices
    are: spaghetti sauce w/ noodles, curried begetables with 5 grain
    brown rice, cajun sauce with 5 grain rice, sweet and spicy stew
    with brown rice and chili with brown rice.  The package serves 2
    and sells for less than $5.00 in Hawaii.  The price will drop to
    under $4.00 when the product hits the mainland.             
    
    Glenn
    
    Glenn

164.21realitySRFSUP::GOLDSTEINDon GoldsteinThu Dec 10 1987 20:2713
    
    Boy oh boy, this note is getting real technical.  I am boldly going
    to assume that most people know the basic difference between good
    and bad eating habits.  It is obvious that almost everone who is
    overweight is that way because of poor eating habits.  But, my point
    is that breaking these bad habits is very, very difficult to do.
    I think that this is more along the lines of what this conference
    is suppose to be about than chemical breakdowns of the healthiest
    diet on the planet.  All of us would love to follow such a diet
    but that is hard to do.
    
    

164.22disagree.CSC32::G_MCINTOSHFri Dec 11 1987 17:4211
    Don,
    
    I wasn't aware that there were guidelines of what this conference is
    supposed to be about.  But, I put to you that you have missed something
    here.  I believe that there are no such thing as poor or good eating
    habits, but rather the only factor of note is WHAT you eat.  If
    you eat what you should, then good or poor eating habits aside,
    you'll be relatively healthy and NOT OVERWEIGHT! 
    
    Glenn

164.23NCCODE::COLMANCathy ColmanWed Dec 30 1987 11:4818
    
    By am I glad I found this note.  I reread "Fit or Fat" this weekend
    which referenced the Pritikin diet, I checkd my stash of diet books,
    and yes I had it, so I read it.. This is my plan for 1988! I am
    glad to hear of the McDOugall plan because I am trying to eat as
    much vegetearioan based meals as possible.
    
    I'm off to find the McDougal cook books tonight!
    
    I am also including the exercis suggested by Pritikin and many others.
    
    I would be interested in how much execise Marion has included in
    her schedule with this type of diet and how little fats she is
    including in her diet?  And anyone else who is following this type
    of eating style!
    
    

164.24moderateCSC32::G_MCINTOSHMon Jan 04 1988 16:5717
    Cathy,
    
    McDougall says moderate exercise....the exact quote is:
    
    "The McDougall Plan encourages you to adopt the diet and lifestyle
    which best supports your natural tendencies to heal and stay healthy.
    This supportive environment is based around proper foods, moderate
    exercies, adequate sunshine, pure air and water, and surroundings
    comfortable to you psychological well being."
     
    I take that as meaning a bike ride, playing with the kids, but not
    necessarily a rigid exercise program.
    
    Glenn
    
    Does that help?

164.25THIS *REALLY* WORKS !VAXUUM::MUISEThu Mar 03 1988 10:1438
    After reading this note, I began my own version of this diet.
    
    I basically became a vegetarian for the past 5 weeks for the first
    time in my life.  I ate all the carbohydrates I wanted (whole
    grain when I could), all the fruit and vegetables I wanted, ate
    no meat, fish, chicken; and used cheddar cheese as a very
    occasional treat.
    
    I should mention that I am not highly overweight.  I was a few pounds
    overweight, and then 6 months ago stopped smoking and put on another
    10.  But I am a small woman, and the extra 12-15 pounds looked like
    more.  I tried everything to lose the weight, but it's true what
    they say about smoking affecting your metabolism.  I literally could
    not lose even one pound.  
    
    This is the first diet that has worked!!  It took a while. I saw
    no real results the first 3 weeks, tho I was very conciencious.
    Then suddenly each morning I seemed thinner for the past 2 weeks,
    and I am still losing !
    
    I actually enjoy this diet.  I adore carbohydrates, and rediscovered
    fruits and vegetables as very versatile "meals".  I ate spaghetti
    with sauteed vegies, potatoes, rice, breads, rolls, fruit salads,
    natural applesauce, etc. etc.  I was never hungry and quite
    satisfied.  I had no sweets, and very little oil (and made sure
    it was polyunsaturated).  I am now incorporating an occasional egg,
    maybe chicken once a week, and will have some fish soon.  But
    I can hold off on the red meat.  I never thought I could, but it's
    interesting to learn how easily red meat can be replaced.  
    
    I have more energy than ever before and feel great !
    
    Thanks for the information... it worked well for me.
    
    
    jacki
    

164.26make meat a side-dish, not the main courseHPSCAD::WHITMANAcid rain burns my BASSThu Mar 03 1988 13:4324
re .25

	I was looking through the introduction to a Chinese cookbook I bought a
couple weeks ago.  It said that unlike the West where the main course is meat
around which we place vegetables as a dressing, the Chinese main course is rice
around which there is a dressing of meats and veggies.   The idea here is one
of quantity.  Partially directed by dietary goals, partially out of boredom with
standard meat and potatoes fare, we have gone off on a Chinese cuisine kick.
Stir-fry everything, my wife hates white rice so we do fried-rice a lot lately.
One of the things we have discovered is that meat goes ALOT farther.  When we
eat sirloin steak as the main course, it's 1/2 - 3/4 lb per person.  When we
add beef as a 'dressing' to a Chinese dish (whose name escapes me) a 1/2 lb
feeds all three of us.  Regarding the beef, that can be translated into 1/3 the
cost (or more if you use a cheaper cut of beef) and more importantly 1/3 the
calories and 1/3 the cholesterol. 

	Getting back to the subject of this topic, although I'm not ready to
go full vegetarian with the Pritikin/Mcdougal diet, I find a shift from the
meal revolving around the meat dish, to having the meat an ingredient of the
main course to be interesting, better from a caloric view point, and perhaps
healthier than the traditional meat and potatoes meal I grew up on... 

						Al

164.27Taco Salad!RSTS32::KASPERc = (pascal - training_wheels)Thu Mar 03 1988 14:5817
    Another fun way to use meat as a "side dish " (actually more like a
    condiment) is to make taco salad.  

    The ground turkey available in the freezer case is less expensive than
    beef (under $1/pound), loses less fat in cooking, and is lower in
    cholesterol.  I make a pound of that into taco meat using a mix
    (McCormick/Schilling is good), or picante sauce and Mexican seasonings.

    Throw 1-2 oz of that on a big bowl of lettuce, tomato, and onion,
    garnish with 1/2 oz cheese, 1 oz nacho chips, and more picante sauce.

    Filling and yummy -- and that 1 lb of turkey will make 8-10 servings!

    Bev


164.28Ground TurkeySTAR::YANKOWSKASWho's bad?Thu Mar 03 1988 15:2712
    re .27:
    
    This is perhaps getting a little off the original topic, but I'll
    second Bev's recommendation on the ground turkey.  My wife and I
    use it in a number of dishes (such as meatloaf, American chop suey,
    spaghetti sauce) the same way we had been using hamburger.  Besides
    the health benefits Bev mentioned, it gives these dishes a less
    heavy flavor that I enjoy.
    
    
    Paul

164.29Help - I'm interested!VAXWRK::LESHINMon Apr 25 1988 10:1433
Hi, my name is Sandi and I work in PKO2 in Maynard.  I have been on lots of 
diets and always end up a few pounds heavier after I stop dieting.  As I'm 
sure most people can identify with, I'm sick of dieting and failing.  After 
I read these notes on the McDougall plan, I decided to go out and get the 
book.

I now have the book and have read it once.  I'm interested in hearing about 
modifications to the diet (as in 164.25) and I'm also interested in knowing 
if the people who wrote about it in 1987 are still losing today.  I really 
do believe that this may be the way for me to go.  I love fresh fruit and 
vegetables and good, whole grain bread has always been a treat.

Help!!!!!!

Thanks - Sandi


< Note 164.28 by STAR::YANKOWSKAS "Who's bad?" >
                               -< Ground Turkey >-

    re .27:
    
    This is perhaps getting a little off the original topic, but I'll
    second Bev's recommendation on the ground turkey.  My wife and I
    use it in a number of dishes (such as meatloaf, American chop suey,
    spaghetti sauce) the same way we had been using hamburger.  Besides
    the health benefits Bev mentioned, it gives these dishes a less
    heavy flavor that I enjoy.
    
    
    Paul


164.30I can't find the books in the UKIPG::BAGGOTTWed Apr 27 1988 18:0022
    Help!
    
    I'm in the UK and CANNOT find any of the relevant books. I've tried
    all the bookstores and health-food stores in Reading, with no success.
    
    I really do feel that this will be the best eating style for me.
    I can often manage Monday to Friday more-or-less on the plan, but
    the weekends and catering for the family....
    
    I would really like to get hold of the books - I do find that being
    able to read the philosphies/evidence behind diet recommendations
    helps my motivation.
    
    Has anyone any spare copies? I keep hoping for a trip to the US,
    but there isn't one on the horizon. If anyone could buy me the books,
    and I could repay a colleague on a trip to Reading..? Any ideas,
    please?
    
    Thanks,
    Clare
         

164.31have you tried to mailorder books?HPSCAD::WHITMANAcid rain burns my BASSThu Apr 28 1988 09:4912
re .30

Clare,
	Checkout BARNUM::CATALOGS for references as to where you might be able
to mailorder the books you want.  I know the moderator of that conference has
2 or three catalogs (or addresses anyway) that may help you locate the books
you want.

					Al

P.S. type KP7 to add BARNUM::CATALOGS to your notebook

164.32I'LL GET 'EM FOR YE!CSC32::G_MCINTOSHTouch not the cat, bot the glove!Fri Apr 29 1988 16:409
    Clare, 
    
    If you can't find the books in this other notes file, I'll be happy
    to purchase the books for you and send them to you, provided you
    work out the necessary exchange rate and reimburse me.  How's that
    sound to you?
    
    Glenn

164.33I knew I could rely on youIPG::BAGGOTTFri Apr 29 1988 19:3316
    Thanks Glenn,
    
    As one of the main champions of the cause, I thought I'd be able
    to rely on you!!  Where are you located? My best bet will be to
    find someone coming out to your area to give you dollars - unless
    your bank will accept sterling bank cheques. 
    
    And then will you be prepared to act as translator from American
    English to UK English? I've always been able to cope with an English
    purse being an American wallet/pocketbook while an American purse
    is an English handbag, but I still don't know what "beets" are -
    are they beetroot, spring greens, or what?
    
    Perhaps we need to start an internationalisation note......
    Clare

164.34ANGORA::ZARLENGAGive me liberty or give me debtsSat Apr 30 1988 13:3416
    	Before you start one of these diets, it's in your own best
    interests to see a nutritionist or doctor.
    
    	Both The Pritikin Diet and The McDougall Plan advocate diets
    which are radically different that the typical American diet.
    If not followed correctly, they can be dangerous to your long-term
    health.  If followed correctly, they may still cause problems in
    otherwise healthy people (but then the typical American diet can
    too).
    
    	In either case, a good nutritionist can make you aware all the
    potential problems, from energy level to meal complexity to vitamin
    and mineral deficiency.
    
    -mike z

164.35NOT so different from most of the world.CSC32::G_MCINTOSHTouch not the cat, bot the glove!Mon May 02 1988 16:1214
    Mike.  McDougall's diet may be "radically different" from the typical
    American diet, but then the typical American diet of high fat, high
    protein, low fiber, low carbohydrate, etc., is pretty different
    from for the diets of most of the world.  McDougall's diet, while
    it's different from the American diet, is NOT so different from
    other diets around the world.  Many cultures are on a starch diet.
    
    In any event, McDougall has a chapter "Getting Started on Your
    Health-Supporting Diet" in which he discusses all the changes your
    body will go through when you start eating right, and why, how and
    what if, about them.
    
    Glenn

164.36ANGORA::ZARLENGAGive me liberty or give me debtsMon May 02 1988 21:1920
.35>    In any event, McDougall has a chapter "Getting Started on Your
.35>    Health-Supporting Diet" in which he discusses all the changes your
.35>    body will go through when you start eating right, and why, how and
.35>    what if, about them.

    	I've read the book, that's chapter 15.  First, I don't believe
    that many people will get through chapter 15 before starting the
    diet.  Second, he doesn't cover all the changes, especially long-term
    iron or vitamin deficiency, and his treatment of some potentially
    serious side effects (excessive urination for one) may give people
    a false sense of security.
    
    	It's not that the diet is unsound.  But it is more difficult
    to follow in today's society than the typical diet, or even Weight
    Watcher's.  Not following the diet as laid out can cause the dieter
    problems since there is little redundancy of nutrients.
    
    -mike z

164.37Health Supporting DietVAXWRK::LESHINTue May 03 1988 12:1422
I walked in on the middle of a program last night.  It was about athletes 
and their diets.  There were several doctors and coaches talking about 
proper diet and how it plays a part in being a more energetic athlete and 
having your body work better for you.

The diet (or lifestyle) they recommended was very similar to the McDougall 
Plan.  Plenty of carbohydrates, fresh fruit and vegetables.  The only 
difference was the inclusion of fish and chicken to get some of the 
vitamins and minerals that you won't get with just the whole grains, fruit 
and vegetables.

A football coach said that people talk about building up their bodies and 
other people talk about losing weight.  He said that the diet is the same 
for both - simple as that!

It did bring everything together for me since I had been reading the 
McDougall Plan and wanting to research the topic further before embarking 
on a new lifestyle.  Looks like I've found the way for me.  I hope it I can 
stick to it and give it a chance to work.



164.38CSC32::G_MCINTOSHTouch not the cat, bot the glove!Tue May 03 1988 13:364
    I don't believe you'll be sorry.
    
    Glenn

164.39ARGUS::CORWINI don't care if I AM a lemmingTue May 03 1988 13:568
re .37

The show was Bodywatch, on PBS; I saw it (as a planned viewing) Saturday night.
I don't remember what's on this coming Saturday, but I think it is also food
related.

Jill

164.40"INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW"TFH::LAPOINTEWed May 04 1988 11:167
    SANDY IN REPLY .29 ASKED A GOOD QUESTION AND I HAVEN'T SEEN AN ANSWER
    TO AS YET.  I BELIEVE IT WAS MARION AND GLEN THAT HAD STARTED ON
    THIS DIET PLAN LAST YEAR.  HOW ARE YOU DOING TODAY???  
    
    ROBIN
    

164.41CSC32::G_MCINTOSHTouch not the cat, bot the glove!Wed May 04 1988 13:476
    
    I've dropped 17 pounds in the passed 2 months.  My cholesterol level
    is 160 and my BP is 117/79.
    
    Glenn

164.42any good diet will workANGORA::ZARLENGAGive me liberty or give me debtsWed May 04 1988 14:1410
.41>    I've dropped 17 pounds in the passed 2 months.  My cholesterol level
.41>    is 160 and my BP is 117/79.
    
    	I have similar results from a modified Weight Watcher's diet.
    
    	I've lost 18 lbs over a 10 week period.
    
    -mike z

164.43 Pritikan vs McDougallTFH::LAPOINTEWed May 04 1988 14:3113
HI GLEN,
    
    Could you define the differences in the two plans?  It sounds to
    me that Pritikan method is meatless, and the McDougall has some
    forms of meat.  I am on my way to buying one of two programs today
    and I would like to start with the one the is most like what I would
    like to do.  I don't eat alot of beef mostly poulty and fish and
    in being single I eat out alot.  So I would like to make this as
    simple as possible so that I can make it a way of life.
    
    Heres to a healthier me!!
    Robin

164.44here you goCSC32::G_MCINTOSHTouch not the cat, bot the glove!Wed May 04 1988 15:3437
    Robin,
    
    I'm not NEARLY as well versed on the Pritikin diet as I am on the
    McDougall Plan, but I'll tell you what I know.
    
    Nathan Pritikin had severe heart problems and swore to a new diet.
    He had severe plaque in his veins.  (Caused by cholesterol, which
    is ONLY present in animal products.)  Anyway, later on down the
    road when Pritikin died, an autopsy was performed that showed that
    his veins were like that of a 20 year old.  There was NO plaque
    in his veins, but there still were scars from where the plaque had
    been.  This tells me that general atherosclerosis is REVERSIBLE.
    (Which isn't too surprising since the body does heal itself.)
    
    Pritikin wrote the forward in the book "the McDougall Plan".  
    
    My understanding is that Pritikin allows you to consume up to 3
    ounces of meat per day, if you're relatively healthy.  Some others
    may know Pritikin better than I.  McDougall, conversly, says no
    meat PERIOD.  McDougall does NOT differentiate between red meat,
    white meat, shell fish, fish, etc., because he says that it is all
    muscle and if you look these up in a nutritional handbook then you'll
    find that they are relatively high in cholesterol, high in fat, high
    in protein, have zero fiber, zero carbohydrates, all the wrong things,
    so don't eat it.  Now McDougall does hedge abit.  He said that these
    items are DELICACIES, and should be put into a category of treats
    and eaten only on special occassions 4 or 5 times a YEAR only.
    
    McDougall does not count calories.  He doesn't care about calories.
    If you eat the right foods, which is a starch-based diet (rice,
    pasta, potatoes), with side dishes of fruits and vegetables.
    
    I can go on, but you need to read note 200 and 202 (I think).
    Let me know if you have more questions.
    
    Glenn

164.45164, 198, 200, 239CSC32::G_MCINTOSHTouch not the cat, bot the glove!Wed May 04 1988 15:418
    
    Robin.
    
    Notes 164, 198, 200 and 239 all deal with the McDougall plan in
    various forms.  They're all pretty informative.
    
    Glenn

164.46erTFH::LAPOINTEWed May 04 1988 17:0911
    Thanks Glen,
    
    	Well I'm on my way to the book store.  I have a feeling that
    this is the way to go.  It doesn't sound to different from the way
    I try to eat now.  It will help me to get it straight and to help
    me to do it right.  Thanks again!!!!!  I'll let you know how I'm
    doing.
    
    Robin
    

164.47Pritikin is no picnic!ANGORA::ZARLENGAGive me liberty or give me debtsWed May 04 1988 23:0236
.43>    Nathan Pritikin had severe heart problems and swore to a new diet.
.43>    He had severe plaque in his veins.  (Caused by cholesterol, which
.43>    is ONLY present in animal products.)
    
    	Point 1: He certainly had heart problems, but the condition of
    his arteries was never diagnosed, only assumed.
    
    	Point 2: A low cholesterol diet does not guarantee plaque-free
    arteries since the human body manufactures cholesterol as needed.
    Exercise is still the best way to reduce blood serum cholesterol,
    and the only proven way to reduce it long-term.

    	The main problem with the Pritikin Diet is the extremely low
    fat content.  When I worked with the staff of the Atrium cardio-
    fitness center in Providence, RI, nearly 90% of the patients had
    trouble sticking to Pritikin due to hunger.  They stopped advocating
    this diet and went on to hire a nutritionist to customize a sensible
    diet on an individual basis.  The dropout rate was at 20% last summer,
    way down from 90%.
    
    	My Pritikin book, unfortunately is still at the Atrium so I
    can't get into specifics, but this is a diet for people whose
    present health makes a normal diet unsafe. McDougall is much less
    radical and doesn't produce the satiety problems characteristic
    of the Pritikin diet.
    
.43>    find that they are relatively high in cholesterol, high in fat, high
.43>    in protein, have zero fiber, zero carbohydrates, all the wrong things,
.43>    so don't eat it.

    	Just within the last 3 months, the cholesterol content of shellfish
    has been recalculated.  Shellfish has come out low in cholesterol and high
    in omega-3 fish oils, which appear to reduce serum cholesterol.

    -mike z    

164.48Bran muffinsTFH::LAPOINTEMon May 23 1988 11:2715
    Well I've been at this now for a week now and I feel great.  I'm
    never starving type hungry, but when I am hungry I have somethin
    real to eat.  I will weight myself on Wed. and let you know how
    it is working already though over the weekend people have said I
    look better and I haven't told anyone that I was even trying again.
    
    The only thing I really miss are my bran muffins.  I have got a
    reciepe for a corn muffin and it's good, but I miss the others.
    The recipes I have are not within the guide lines of real eating(thats
    what I have come to call this healthy form of eating.  No more dieting
    for this kid)  Does anyone have one that they would share with me??
    
    Robin
    

164.49Here you go.CSC32::G_MCINTOSHTouch not the cat, bot the glove!Mon May 23 1988 21:5728
    Hi Robin.  
    
    Chunky Apple Spice Muffins
    **************************
    
    1 cup whole wheat flour
    1 cup oat bran (or another cup of w.w. flour)
    2 tsp baking powder
    1/2 tsp allspice
    2 tsp cinnamon
    1/4 tsp ground cloves
    1/4 tsp powdered ginger
    1 tsp arrowroot
    1/4 cup honey
    1/2 cup applesauce
    2 tart apples, peeled, cut in small dice
    1/2 cup water
    1/2 tsp vanilla
    
    Mix dry ingredients and wet ingredients seperately.  Combine them
    and mix thoroughly.  Spoon into non-stick muffin tins.  Bake at
    400 degrees for about 25 minutes.
    
    This should satisfy your desire for bran muffings.  Enjoy REAL EATING.
    I'm thrilled for you!
    
    Glenn

164.50RAVEN1::D_PAINETue May 31 1988 13:4811
    I'm CURIOUS...what is wrong with bran muffins?  I am not too familiar
    with this plan...
                                            
    
    
    
    
    
      Dee Dee
    

164.51It's not the muffin it's in the makingTFH::LAPOINTEWed Jun 01 1988 16:5120
    Wellcome Dee Dee,
    	There isn't anything wrong with the ones you make yourself and
    you have control over.  It was the ones I WAS buying from donut
    shops and a local coffee shop.  I didn't know what they were made
    with.  I am sure that they may have bleached flour in them and sugar
    to make them sweet.  I don't use either one of these things anymore
    this plan promotes the use of whole wheat flour and things like
    apple juice of honey to sweeten things.........funny thing I had
    to look in the dictionary to make sure I spelled sweeten corectly
    and it says  "3. To make bearable."    anyway....somewhere back
    in the begining of this note there is a more detailed explanation
    of the plan.
    
    Wellcome again.......
    by the way I'm dead set on getting those last 20 pounds off myself!!
    Heres to us!!!!!!!
    
    Robin
    

164.52Is anyone still out there?AYOU48::VRANKINThu Aug 10 1989 10:3917
    Okay, so here we all are yet another year down the road.  
    
    Can the people who were so hyped up last year about the diet plan
    please reply with how thay feel NOW.  What success rate did/do thay
    have?  I've been on many a diet over the years and do agree that
    a diet of mainly veggies/fruit with an occasional splash of meat
    works the best for me.  But when I was at my heaviest (230) and
    determined to shed the pounds, I found that the
    determination/motivation (once started) was enough to keep me eating
    healthy, not any particular diet plan.  
    
    FYI, I currently weight in at 155 lbs, but CONSTANTLY watch 
    what I eat  because I KNOW the pounds will come back if I don't.
    
    Vivian