Conference rocks::weight_control

re .0:

>    I have seen the slogan NOTHING TASTES AS GOOD AS BEING THIN
>    FEELS many times.

A more correct version of the slogan would probably be:  NOTHING TASTES AS
GOOD AS FEELING GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF.

You say that weighing what Weight Watchers or a doctor would consider
"reasonable" for you is not comfortable for you.  Have you spoken to your
doctor about that?  I wouldn't be surprised if there are lots of people out
there who just don't fit into the "charts".  I think it's more important to
be healthy and happy, with a full life, rather than thinner, unhealthy, and
tired.  Or maybe there's even another physical cause for your experience.
You're not damaged goods, you may just march to a "different drummer" in this
respect.

I'm sure there are a lot of people who are perfectly happy being 20 pounds
over the chart's ideal weight.  You don't hear about them because they're
not trying to lose weight and talking about it like we are here.  I hear
people saying "oh, I'm trying to lose weight" all the time.  I never hear
people say "oh, I'm at the weight I want to be at so I'm not on a diet"
unless prompted.

Feel good about yourself!

Jill

RE .0:
    I can think of two things that may cause you lack of energy at lower
    weights.
    
    One thing that I think is essential to feeling energetic is being
    energetic.  I often feel more tired and listless on a day when I
    am just hanging around doing nothing than on a day when I go for
    a bike ride, take the dog for a long walk etc...  Once in a while
    when I get home from work I feel too tired to get any excercise,
    but once I force myself to for for that run, I am a new person.
    Once in a while I even HAVE to walk or run at lunch because I feel
    to tired to do any work. 
    
    Another important issue is the types of foods you eat.  I know you
    said you eat healthy things but what sorts and in what combinations.
    Complex Carbohydrates, such as fruit and bread(no butter though)&grains
    give lots energy, where as tunafish, although healthy does not provide
    the same energy.  
    

    Hi Marcia,
    There was a column in the latest issue of "Women's Sports and Fitness"
    that was similar to your letter.  Briefly, it stated that a person's
    body has a certain weight "setpoint" that may not be what the
    Metropolitain Life Health Insurance Charts categorize.  The article
    went on to say that YOUR best weight may indeed be plus or minus
    20 pounds what the chart says.  YOUR ideal weight is the weight that
    you feel your best at.  When you diet, your body's metabolism adjusts
    to a certain weight and even though you may want to lose more, your
    body may be telling you, "Hey, Marcia - stop starving me!, your
    weight is just fine."  The article went on to say all the stuff
    we already know about society's unrealistic view of thinness and
    the pressures that women feel toward dieting.
                                                 
    Just my two cents,
    
    Nancy

    Regarding setpoints - I have seen but not read a book on setpoints,
    and how to modify your setpoint.  Has anyone got more info on this?
    Does the book deal with energy issues?
    
    Re exercise - I often feel dragged out when I walk into the gym,
    force myself to change and get out there, and after about 15 min
    I've got my energy back.  Sometimes I don't - rarely - and then
    I'll do a minimum routine and leave.  An aside:  Aerobic exercise,
    whether dance (which I refuse to do) or biking or walking or
    whatever, tends to lower your pulse rate over a few months.
    Mine went from 76 ("average" for women) to 58 (good for people who
    are "in shape"). This means that my heart doesn't work as hard
    just keeping me breathing and walking, and helps me have more energy.
    
    re food - When I started my record-keeping I was amazed to find
    that I was shorting myself a LOT on grains.  Now that I'm eating
    the recommended servings from the 4 food groups I have much more
    energy.  I'm also taking vitamin/mineral pills, because I know I
    don't get enough calcium and iron, and want to be sure on all the
    rest.

    RE: Weight charts
    
    I was thumbing thru a copy of Nutritional Composition of Foods (or
    some such thing) and came upon a weight table in the back (height
    vs frame size).  I looked myself up and did a double-take, 'cause if
    I weighed what the chart said I should, I'm sure I'd be dead!  :-)
    Maybe it was a chart for one-legged people.  ;-)
    
    RE: Pulse rates
    
    I was suprised to note that for an overweight sedentary human,
    that my pulse rate seemed to be pretty decent (~60 at rest).  Once
    I dump the weight and shape up a bit, I wonder what it'll be?
    
    Kak

    
    Marcia,
    I go through what you described all the time..... I am 5'5" and
    weigh 140 lbs.  The charts say I should weigh ~125 lbs.  If I try
    to get down to that weight, as I am now, I am listless, irritable,
    and cold.  To have the energy to exercise I need eat.  My only
    consolation has been this.....the other day I was at a customer
    site and there was a guy there who was interested in exercising
    and such, well we got to talking and he said "what do you weigh,
    about 125 lbs or so" and I said "or so....."  and he said "well
    if you weigh any more than that it's got to be muscle."  I thought
    to myself....God, it is paying off!!!!!  Now what I have to work
    on is not thinking about what I weigh but how I look and feel!
    
    -ur not alone---les
    

    Thanks so much for all the replies.  My own MD feels pretty good
    about me, since my weight is stable and gradually creeping down
    (he feels that's much healthier than the yo-yo bit) and all my vital
    signs are very good--low cholesterol, low lipid levels, good kidney
    function, good EKG, low-normal blood pressure, etc.  I'd told him
    that the somewhat hysterical tone of the fitness articles I was
    reading that swore that the difference between 145 and 125 was going
    to kill me with 15 dread diseases next year was making me nervous,
    and he said that just as there were those who had to be thinner
    than the "norm" to be healthy, there were those who could also go
    the other way and be in perfect health too.
    
    Regarding the energizing benefit of exercise:
    
    I have _never_ experienced it.
    
    I'm not talking about feeling tired before working out; I'm dead
    within an hour _after_ a workout--unless I eat or sleep.  That's why 
    I work out in the evening; my bosses didn't think too well of my 
    catatonic stupor during business hours (I'd tried exercising at 
    lunch and at dawn).  The evenings when I exercise I have learned
    not to plan to do anything else--I just can't stay awake.  Even 
    though I have worked out fairly faithfully, always reaching for 
    3 times a week, 45 min to an hour (sometimes more) for 10 years 
    now, I have yet to _feel_ better for it.  My overall ability to 
    endure has increased, my muscle tissue and tone has increased, 
    my bodyfat is down, my pulse and blood pressure are nice and low--but
    feelings of vitality and energy have never been uplifted.  Also,
    unlike most people I know, I feel _most_ energetic and active right
    after a full meal.  Anyone else out there who's had this happen?
    
    Marcia

    Marcia, my reactions to food and sleep and exercise are about the
    reverse of yours!  I'm usually a little sleepy after I eat, starting
    perhaps a half an hour after, unless I get involved in doing something
    during that time.  I'm pretty groggy for about half an hour to an
    hour after I wake up in the morning, no matter how long or short
    the duration of my sleep.  I'm WIRED for a few hours after I do
    my workout, talking a mile a minute, bouncing off the ceiling
    usually.  I *do* get tired later on, as well as getting tired if
    I do a lot of yard work all day.  I tucker out most if I'm in the
    hot sun or if it's humid out.
    
    I'm also a complete night-owl and have been since childhood.  Perhaps
    that has something to do with my reactions vs yours - are you a
    morning person?
    
    All I can say about your weight is, if you feel good and like how
    you look and you're healthy, it sounds good.  You can't go blindly
    by the charts.  For example, I weigh a touch under 140, and I'm
    5'4.  You'd think I'd be about a size 12-14, but I'm about an 8,
    10 in fitted things.  Weight isn't the bottom line, it's size and
    bodyfat.  I'm shooting for somewhere between 130 and 135 right now,
    and I'll see where I feel best.  People guess me at 125....
    
    --Louise

    re .8:
    Louise,
 
          I am a morning person and my reactions are similar to yours.
    Exercise makes me very WIRED, I could never eat or sleep for at
    least 1 1/2 to 2 hours after.  Eating usually makes me tired and
    or nauseous, especially if done late in the day.  As a matter of
    fact, if I do not wait at least 4 hours after eating I can not sleep
    because of a stomach ache.
	 
          I think these reactions are a result of the lower body fat.
    Least I checked, about 3 months ago, my bodyfat was about 14%. 
    I think it is a little lower now and I have noticed an increase
    in most of these reactions.  More body fat makes you much more
    tired and I also think a little bit hungrier.
    

    Marcia --
    
    From the tone of some of your previous notes, it sounds like you're
    happy with your body the way it is now.  From this note though,
    I get a different impression.  I think that all of the
    emphasis on being "thin" and having your weight match the weight
    on a chart is really outrageous.
    
    I have lost 56 pounds, and I have 25 to go before I hit the top
    of the range for my height (according to Weight Watchers).  
    I have thought about stopping before I hit the top of the range
    but have decided to go on.  
    
    However, I expect that once I hit the top I'll be ready to stop
    loosing.  I don't have much faith in those height weight charts.
    Individual bodies really vary.  As others have pointed out, a fit
    body looks like it weighs less.  I've discovered that even though
    I"m ten pounds lighter than I was several years ago, the pants that
    fit me then are just starting to fit now.  This is because several
    years ago I exercised alot and had a large but toned body.  Now
    I do not exercise and I have an "untoned" body.
    
    I started out to answer your note, but I seem to have gotten lost
    in my own story!  I think that anybody who can come to terms with
    their body and accept it is doing great.  That means you accept
    its shortcomings and things that you can't change, and you're happy
    with your body when you want to be; not when a height-weight chart
    tells you you've hit ideal weight.
    
    It's hard to build a positive self image and even harder when those
    around you don't accept you.  As I child and teenager I always remember
    my doctor telling me how overweight I was and how I should do something
    about it.  It made me hate doctors!  As an adult I have a doctor
    who realizes that not everybody's body can be ideal.  He suggested
    that I loose some weight (about 20 pounds) to see how I felt.  He
    also told me that I might have to accept the fact that my body was
    not a "thin" body.
    
    Oops.  I'm really getting carried away here.  But one more thing.
    I haven't really felt better since I've lost weight.  I feel better
    psychologically, and some physical symptoms have dissappeared (for
    example, my feet don't hurt as much after walking for a long time).
    But I don't feel the way I expected I would after loosing so much
    weight.  It's good to hear that there is somebody else who doesn't
    run around yelling about how wonderful it is to be thin.  I don't
    want to be thin -- just "average", give or take a few pounds.
    
    --Laura

RE: exercise and re-energizing

After work I will be on my way to class with alot of negative self-talk
(I'm tired, do I really want to go to aerobics, etc...) and almost falling
alseep at the wheel (too much traffic) but after class I am up and alert as
if I just awakened.  If is has been a very taxing day, then the reverse is
true I just need rest...

Therefore I have experienced the re-energizing effects of exercise, but 
not all the time...my body still tells me when I am exhausted....
Loretta

    re: .10
    
    This raises a series of interesting issues.  I _am_ fairly happy 
    with my body now.  My problem seems to lie with wondering if it 
    is "right" to be happy with it.  It seems, after 36 years of living 
    in it, to have the following characteristics:
    
     o it is resource-dependent.  How good and vital and energetic
       it feels is very closely tied to amounts of food and sleep
       it receives.  Exercise, sadly, does not seem to be a resource
       for it.
    
     o Endurance is its main talent.  It has the ability to keep at
       any given endeavor for a good while, and exercise has increased
       this.  But if it is going to maximize its talent, it can't expend
       energy too fast, or burnout occurs.  It is not long on speed, 
       springiness, swiftness--all those things that are prominent in 
       my competitive sports loving friends.
    
     o It is not naturally svelte.  I have photos of the two times I
       weighed 125.  I look _no different_ than in the photos where
       it weighs 150!  The shoulders and arms are still hunky, legs
       still large, frame still broad.  The refinements that 25 pounds
       made in my overall shape were quite subtle.
    
     o It _is_ naturally shapely.  When I gain weight, it goes on
       all over as a slowly increasing layer of padding.  Fat does not
       glom onto a localized area like the belly, the rear, the
       thighs; I feel fortunate in this.
    
     o It is mesomorphic; that is, I do tend to build muscle tissue
       easily.  Over the slow years of slowly working out, I know
       that its composition is different, because when I was a teen-
       ager I floated like a cork, even in fresh water.  I now sink
       like a rock, even in salt water.  That tells me that my overall
       fat to muscle ratio has improved over time even if it is
       higher than supposed optimum.
    
     o Slow is always better for it than fast.  Losing one to two
       pounds a year it likes (rewards me by staying well).  Increasing
       workouts extremely gradually it likes (rewards me by staying
       uninjured).  Walking it likes; running it hates.  Belly dancing
       it likes; traditional aerobic dancing it hates.  Callanetics
       it likes; Jane Fonda it hates.  Practicing constant, perfect
       posture it likes; practicing specific exercises designed to
       improve postural muscles only a few times a week it hates.
    
    So overall, it seems to be a nice body, and I like it better as
    time goes by.  It looked much the same at 16 as it does at 36, but
    the body that looked odd on a 16-year old (all of my friends were 
    anorexic sticks at 16) looks great on a 36-year old.  But it is not
    truly, completely, _thin_ and is perhpas not meant to be.  And
    my head's problem is that it gets affected from time to time by
    the hysteria I sense from fitness/fashion articles and books that
    all but shriek at me "What do mean, not meant to be thin??  You're
    just a self-limiting, defeatist, slob!! Get up off your butt and 
    get going you lazy slut!  Don't you realize you'll be dead in 3 
    years if you keep going as you are???"
    
    Is that how some of the fitness literature sounds to some of you
    out there?  I wonder if some sense of balance is a good idea,
    especially for those of us who are not vastly overweight.  For
    instance, I am _really impressed_ to read accounts of people who
    celebrate the loss of a hundred pounds, and still have a hundred
    to go.  But I'm starting to think that where neurosis about the
    whole thing can set in is when you get close to ideal (within 20
    pounds).  Then you may wonder "when am I done?  For that matter,
    what _is_ done?  For me, for my body?  What should I really be 
    shooting for?  Where is normal?  What is beautiful?  And who decides?"
    
    Thanks for provoking all the thoughts,
    
    Marcia

    Yes, I agree that when you get down to the last 20 pounds or so
    it becomes more difficult in many ways.
    
    When you have lots of weight to loose you know that you are overweight
    and have to do something about it.  When you get closer to a goal
    weight (a weight that you've picked off a chart or been given by
    a doctor) you might start to think about that weight, and wonder
    if that's where you really need to be.
    
    In my case that thought comes from a few things.  First off, I'm
    getting tired of dieting and so maybe I could just stay a little
    fat.  Second, and even more so, when I get to that goal weight will
    it be a constant struggle to maintain it? (I think it will be).
     In my case I've decided that if I don't go all the way to my goal
    weight I'll be disappointed in myself.  It's not that I'm being
    too hard on myself.  I forgive myself for slips, errors, setbacks.
     I have to because if I really want to modify my lifestyle I"m going
    to have to think about this stuff for the rest of my life.  And
    I cannot spend the rest of my life berating myself because I decided
    to eat a big meal or a good piece of cake.
    
    For me, being at my goal weight will be an all time low weight and
    a minor miracle for me.  For other people of my build and height
    my goal weight might be an all time high weight for them.  
    
    It's interesting how as you get closer to being thin you begin thinking
    about if you could ever look like someone you admire (Jane Fonda,
    for example).  It's hard to explain but I'll try.  When you are
    very overweight, you usually have a very low opinion of yourself.
     You think, "Oh, I'll never look like those thin women with great
    bodies."  As you loose weight you might think, "Hey, I'm going to
    be thin and look great and all my problems will be over."  And then
    you might begin to realize that you are not going to look like a
    model and that your body might not be perfect.  So you kind of go
    full circle, and you have to learn to accept your body for what
    it is.
    
    As usual I've gotten caught up in myself without really answering
    the previous replies.  I hope this made sense to someone!
    
    --Laura

    In my case what happened was just as I was really beginning to feel
    pleased with the progress I was able to make, I had begun reading
    fitness literature in order to get more idease for doing better in 
    the exercise department.  And I started to get defensive and resentful
    over the tone of most of that literature!  But the various authors
    are so insistent and I'm still so sensitive to that particular 
    hellfire-and-brimstone slant (which used to be chiefly the province 
    of Beauty Literature) that my hackles get raised.  But these authors
    are claiming that it's okay for them to sound like this becuase
    they are working for Optimum Health, not Mere Beauty.  And so I 
    doubt myself.  And feel angry for doubting myself because self-doubt 
    causes me to backslide and treat myself badly.  And I feel angry 
    that the literature I am reading implies that I am damaged goods.
    But I feel like damaged goods anyway, especially when so many others
    find they can follow and believe the literature and find that it's
    all true for them.
    
    What I struggle to do instead is act like I'm proud, like I believe 
    in myself (behavioral affirmations, in a way), trying to counter 
    the doubt and hoping that one day the tone of things I read won't 
    affect me as strongly as it does today.

    And I try hard to be very kind to my dieting friends.  To me they
    are heroes.
    
    Marcia