Conference rocks::weight_control

    Optifast is a Protein Sparing Modified Fast (PSMF).
    
    Persons joining the Optifast program are given a FULL physical then
    put on a 400 calorie a day liquid diet.
    
    While on the fast, you attend classes once a week and see a doctor.
    Twice a month blood is taken, and once a month an EKG is done. The
    EKG is take make sure you are not losing heart tissue.
    
    The Behavior modification portion of the program takes 6 months,
    and you stay on it even if you have reached your goal weight.
    
    When you get within 15% of your goal, you are moved to a program
    call Afterfast. Afterfast slowly re-introduces you to food.
    
    Now, the nitty-gritty. You can expect to lose 10-20 pounds the first
    week, and 3-5 each week following (better if you exercise!).
    
    The program costs about $500 a month (covered by some insurance,
    not John hancock!).
    
    I will be starting the fast Monday, I will keep everyone up to date
    on the results.
    
    							--- Neal

    
    Well, all my progress reports were lost in the file disaster.
    
    So... at week 6:
    
    I have lost 60 Pounds, down from 410 to 350. From size 60 pants
    to 53, 4X shirts to 2X.
    
    I have had some problems, I am now on a drug to cut back my Urich(sp?)
    acid production, and a potassium supplement. It seems I have taken
    exercise a bit to serious, and have been sweating out all of my
    potassium.
    
    After the warning signs of a potassium problem (dizzy, cramps,
    irritability) I was put on K-dor, now I feel great.
    
    Well, 135 pounds to go, let you guys know in a couple weeks!
    
    							--- Neal
    

    Sorry for the delay, but here it goes...
    
    Week #10:
    
    I have lost 75 pounds so far and 10 inches off my waist!
    
    I feel great! My self-esteem is up. My endurance is at least 20
    times better then before, I can even go up a flight of stairs without
    getting out of breath.
    
    100 Pounds to go!
    
    						--- Neal

    Yeah, Neal!!!!!
    
    Grins

    
    Another in a series...
    
    Week #11 is over, 6 1/2 more pounds bring my grand total to... Drum
    Roll!
    
    
    86 Pounds! From 410 to 324. In the size department:
    
    Waist:	60 to 48
    Neck:	20 to 18
    Chest:	60 to 50
    
    I feel great, exercising regularly, bicycling 4 - 5 times a week.
    Clothes are getting expensive though!
    
    At this rate, it will be about 4 weeks until I break the 300 pound
    mark. This is the most important mark to pass for me.
    
    I should be under 300 during my trip to the East!
    
    							--- Neal

    
    Here it is folks... Drum Roll...
    
    
    5 more pounds bringing the grand total to 91! Weight now 319.
    
    My new goal weight is 245. I even rode my bike 40 miles on Saturday.
    Look out below, here I come.
    
    							--- Neal

    Congratulations, Neal!  
    
    I've applied to the Opti-Fast program at Leominster (MA) 
    Hospital... they're planning a new class in late June or
    thereabouts... 
    
    The proceeds from the sale of the ESOP stock plan are set
    aside to pay for this... thanks, DEC!!!
    
    Keep those cards and letters coming!
    
    grins,
    Marge
    

    
    Great! Keep us informed on your progress...
    
    							--- Neal

    
    Weightloss for last week was 4 pounds, bringing me to a grand total
    of 96 pounds. I am now on one meal a day in preparation for my upcoming
    trip to the east.
    
    (-: Next week should make the crossing of the 100 pound mark!!! :-)
        
    							--- Neal

I'm writing about someone who is not a DEC employee, but is also on
the Opti-Fast program in the Fairfax, VA area. I wanted to tell you
a little about her story.

She has always been a little overweight. But her job stresses and
personal life has caused her to continually overeat, and gain more
and more weight. I've been concerned about this, since I've always
been afraid that the next time I see her will be in an emergency room!
I've never bugged her about her weight, since when my mother did it
it only seemed to make her eat more, and become more irritable. 

She recently got to the point where the clothes she was currently
wearing, wouldn't fit anymore, and that she wasn't getting any younger
(she'll be 45 next month). She had tried almost every diet known to man, 
including Weight Watchers and Nutri-System. Well, she heard of the 
Opti-Fast program at Fairfax City Hospital and went to an orientation 
lecture and signed up. The cost of the program is $340/month. She
thought this was alot of money until she figured out how much she was
spending a month for herself ALONE for food -- try close to $360/mo!
Since she wouldn't be eating, and on the protein supplement for a
while, she really wouldn't miss the money!

Anyhow, to make a long story short, she just completed her first week
last Thursday and has already lost 13 lbs! I'm SO proud of her! I
can really share in her excitement and really encourage her! This is
the FIRST TIME in a long time I've seen her so happy! 

So, if anyone out there was ever debating whether or not to try Opti-
Fast, and qualified for the program, I'd really recommend investigating
the results from previous people who were on this program -- the 
success rate is impressive!

    That's really good news... please make sure you still give that
    feedback to your friend around week 6, 7 and 8 ... the slump weeks.
    
    grins,
    Marge...looking_forward_to_the_orientation_this_Wednesday!

    
    Ok, here it is, I'm now in Week #15 and here's the results of
    Week #14.
    
    
    Weightloss for the week 6 1/4, bringing the total to 102 Pounds!!!!
    I'm a triple digit weightlosser!
    
    							--- Neal

    
    
    				YEAAAAHHHHHHHH, Neal!!!!!!
    
    :^)
    
    I have my physical next Tuesday and we start the program on July
    15th... wish me luck!?
    
    grins,
    Marge

    Neal,
    
    Congrats are in order. Could you maybe mention how you feel now
    as compared to what you were 102 pounds ago? What is the most
    noticeable change in you besides appearance?
    
    I'm curious...I'm sure others are.
    
    Mike

    Neal,
    
    My hat is off to you!  Keep those updates comeing.  Your success
    is truely inspiring!
    
    Marion

    
    Thanks for the congrats!
    
    How do I feel? Well, just got back from having a new badge picture
    taken, I still have 60 pounds to go, but I don't think that loss
    will show in my face.
    
    I feel great, I workout almost everyday, 24 mins @ level 5 on a
    LifeCycle, 15 mins @ level 8 on a LifeRower, and 20 mins weight
    machines. I ride my bike about 100 miles a week. I want to work
    up to 250 miles a week. 
    
    I have done some "cheating" over the past few weeks, but I have always
    been sure to work it off. When I do eat, it's low calorie and sodium
    stuff. 
                           
    I still think of myself as "fat", after all, I still have 60 pounds
    to go, and my gut still hangs over my waist. But, I guess I do look
    a lot different, my pictures look different, my face is a lot smaller,
    but it's still me. I understand this is what they call a body imaging
    problem. I will be talking to our programs counselor about it.
    
    Now, an interesting story that happened last week:
    
    Over the past few months, I have gotten more active socially. I
    was out with a group of people the other night at a restaurant. I
    was sitting in a booth. (Booths used to be a big problem for me)
    An Obese member of the group asked me to get up so he could slide
    in. I told him to hop over the side, after all, that's what I would
    have done. He said, "You must be kidding!". At that point it hit
    me, I think that I am still his size. And if I can do something,
    then he should be able to also.
    
    After getting up to let him in, I noticed his stomach hanging over
    the table. I looked down to find 4 inches between me and the table.
    
    To reinforce it a little more, a new friend of mine (meet him 30
    pounds ago) leaned over and mentioned how fat the other guy was.
    100 pounds ago, no one would dare us the word fat around me.
    
    Times do change...
    
    							--- Neal
                                                 

    Sorry I am a little asleep at the switch, but.....
    
    FOUR GOLD STARS TO YOU!!!
    
    That sounds wonderful!  Now if I can just get my motivation going!
    Keep up the GREAT work!
    
    Leigh

    C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S   N E A L !!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Your's is a real success story!!
    
                           -sunny-

    Good stuff, Neal!  I know just what you mean by the "body image"
    problem.  Know what I use now for body image problem?  My tape measure.
    For instance, I measure myself on Wednesday (my regular day)
    and find I've made good progress--half inch off the waist, quarter
    inch off the butt, etc.  Next day I get up and for some reason the
    Me that I see in the mirror looks grossly fat.  What's going on?
    I get out the tape measure to see if my eyes (and my psyche) are
    fooling me.  99% of the time they are.
    
    The problem I still have is buying clothes.  I keep looking for
    size 14's when 10's and sometimes 8's are more in order.
    
    Marcia

    
    4 more pounds, but I'm angry!
    
    The format of the program I'm in recently changed. Instead of the
    Weigh in, see doctor, listen to lecture, it's now Weigh in, exercise,
    see doctor, listen to lecture. The doctor knows that I already exercise,
    but he says I WILL exercise with the rest of the class. He says
    I am 1 in 100 and must suffer for the other 99.
    
    This is Bull*#%@! I am paying close to $500 a month and he tells
    me that I'm going to have to suffer for others? My time to exercise
    is late night or early morning, not 5:00 PM right after work. Not
    to mention the trouble of changing at the clinic.
    
    I am now faced with a dilemma, because of this issue, as well as a new
    attitude on the part of the program to push more people through faster
    (read: make more money). I find that I want to leave this program and find
    another one to lose the last 60 pounds. 
    
    1.	Do I find another Optifast program?
    2.	Do I go on Weight Watchers?
    3.	Do I tough it out?
    
    Let's face it, I'm MAD.
    
    							--- Neal

    Hi, Neal...
    
    I think it's unfair of the program to switch their regulations mid-way
    in your program... I can understand your anger...
    
    Perhaps, though, the other people in your group can use the boost
    you give them by being there, by being the example that you are...
    I think I would be inclined to stick it out for them...
    
    Whatever your decision, we're behind you!
    
    grins,
    Marge

    Neal,
    
    I understand your anger.  I _hate it_ when you get all set in a
    routine and have people decide to switch things around for you.
    I just had that happen at my health club and I was also very angry.
    I too considered demanding my membership be partially refunded.
    That turned out to be unnecessary.  Here's how I resolved the problem.
    I gave myself a one week cool off period (I _really_ needed it).
    During that time I did it their way without complaint.  I'm sure
    that they felt I had fallen into line.  After that time, I contacted
    the owner (not the manager) who was somewhat aware of the problem.
    I told him I had a problem and I needed his advice.  I explained
    all the things I liked about the health club and how I had finally
    found a schedule and routine that agreed with my body.  I explained
    that this is why I was so "disappointed" (read pi**ed off) with
    the changes...(etc).  I then stated that I had tried it "their (stupid)
    way" and it was not working out for me.  I said I was wondering
    if they could try it "my (brilient) way" for a while and see if
    it could work out better for them ... or would he suggest I look
    for more "creative solutions and alternatives".  To my suprise,
    he gave in immediately.  I guess be showing that I could be flexable
    and try it their way for a while, gave them no excuse not to try
    it my way.
    
    BTW - I didn't ask that the changes be for everyone - just me.
    
    good luck!!
    
    Marion  

    In Overeater Anonymous they say:  "God grant me the serenity to
    accept the things I cannot change, Change the things I can't accept,
    and the wisdom to know the difference."
    
    My feeling is that if you are happy will all other aspects of your
    program, see if you can change what doesn't fit you.  Since YOU
    are paying for it, it should be responsive to YOUR NEEDS.  If you
    feel you have "outgrown" (outshrunk?) their style of weightloss,
    I see no reason not to look for a program that fits you.  
    
    Cheers to you
    
    Peg

Well fellow noters, today is a sad day indeed. After much thought, I have
left my local Optifast program. For the moment, I'm going to try and hack
it on my own.

I reviewed the events leading up to the problem I described earlier and
the more I think about the way my doctor treated me, the more angry I get.
To think that I gave that man the honor of being the first person since
March to cause me to binge out of frustration.

Well, now some good news and bad news.

On the business leg of my recent trip, I lost 7 more pounds while eating
three meals a day. Down to 295! BUT.... :-( The vacation portion of my trip
only saw it come right back. Don't worry, I'll be eating right and exercising
starting tomorrow on my return home. (I'm using the terminal of a mad woman
at MKO right now)

Oh well, good luck to all, welcome me back to the ranks of the eating.
I'll keep everyone up to date.

							--- Neal
    

    Neal, you know we're behind you... keep up the good work!
    
    grins,
    Marge...(say howdy to the "mad woman"!!) :^)

    Neal,
    
    When your clothes no longer fit, you had them altered; when
    they couldn't be altered any more you got new ones.  Seems to me
    that can be analogous to eating programs.  I'm sure you have 
    learned some new good habits what will help as you continue toward
    your goal weight.
    
    Hugs,
    
    Peg

    It seems like it's been forever in coming, but tonite's the night!
    After screening, orientation, physical and lab, we're finally having
    our kickoff meeting tonight at Leominster Hospital for the Opti-Fast
    program.  
    
    I'm psyched!
    
    grins,
    Marge

    Good luck Marge!  I'm looking forward to your entries in
    the SUCCESS note.
    
    --Louise

        
      Thanx to Marge i have got info and applications for the next
     
OPTI-FAST session that will begin in Sept. I you would like me to mail
    
you this info please drop me a line at.
    
    
    
                                      FELIX::CIRCLE
    
    
                                                        Thanx  
    
                                                          Bill Swaney
            

    
    
    	This week's loss: 9.4 pounds; Total loss 9.4 pounds.
    
    Thanks for the encouragement, everybody!
    Marge

    Marge, I have been awaiting your progress,  my daughter is hoping
    to join in Sept.  Glad to hear you are doing so well (even if I
    am a true believer of w.w.) Keep up the good work.
    
    Eileen

    
    		Lost 2.5 pounds this week; total of 12 pounds.
    
    grinnin'
    Marge

    re: .32
    
    RAH

       RAH

          RAH

             Go for it Marge!!

    I don't know who you are, but I can sympathize with your anger.
    
    The doctor should be concerned about YOU as an individual and
    not force you into his mold.  After all you ARE paying a lot of
    money (although the results were great and worth it), and I
    believe the old addage "the customer is always right".
    
    One thing you must (and I MUST) learn to do after loosing all
    this weight is now you must learn to EAT RIGHT FOR THE REST OF
    YOUR LIFE.
    
    So many of us on this weightloss conference have all lost weight
    and gained back more.  I am concerned for you and believe (if
    you want to, I think it's a good idea at this point) that you 
    should thank the doctor, etc. but continue on with YOUR life and
    go to Weight Watchers for the last 60 lbs. to goal.
    
    Weight Watchers is an organization of people with the same problem
    (before they start:  eating the wrong things @ the wrong time and
    eating too much of them).  They teach us HOW to eat and be 
    satisfied with healthy foods that make us FEEL better physically
    and emotionally.  It isn't just hype---it really works.  The weight
    loss is usually slower than fasts, etc., but it tends to STAY off
    for life if you continue.  
    
    The idea is to continue the healthy program (you may have sweets,
    etc. in smaller amounts) for the rest of your life and they CARE
    ABOUT each person because they (the instructors) know what you're
    going through because they've all BEEN there too.
    
    It is a nutritionally balanced & sound program which many doctors
    say is the BEST!
    
    Congratulations to you Neal and may God guide you into the right
    decision for you!
    

    
    	Down 2 3/4 this week; total 14.5 pounds
    
    No report next week as I'll be on vacation...
    
    grins and thanks again for the support!
    
    Marge

    Way to go Grins!
    
    You'll be casting a slim, trim shadow before you know it!

    That's the idea, Paul!  
    
    Thanks!

 
    	Down 5 3/4 pounds over the past two weeks... vacation
    with the family was wonderful but a bit tough on the
    ole diet...
    
    grins,
    marge

    re 7.38:
    
    SUPER, especially during a vacation!

    
    	Down another 2 pounds this week... seems slow but it's steady
    and the pounds are coming off... down 22 1/4 total after six weeks.
    
    	The BIG news this week, however, is that my cholesterol count
    has dropped since the start of the program from 196 to 145. :^)
    
    grins,
    Marge

>>    	Down another 2 pounds this week... seems slow but it's steady
>>    and the pounds are coming off... down 22 1/4 total after six weeks.
  
congrats, congrats, congrats!!

that is super!

gailann

    
    	Down 3 3/4 pounds this week...total of 26  after 7 weeks.
    
    	I'm afraid this is the last time I'll be reporting my progress
    through this medium... I've taken a leave of absence and will be
    returning to school fulltime next week...
    
    	Thanks to you all for the encouragement... and the very best
    to you on *all* your life's goals...
    
    grins,
    Marge

    re:  .42
    
    Marg,
    
    How can we carry on without a Grin???  (:^I) 
    
    Best of luck to you and ... keep on "you_know_what"-ing 
    
    Marion

    We'll miss you, Marge!  Wish I could take an LOA to finish my
    education but there is a small matter of keeping a roof over my
    head, etc. in the meantime.  This fall starts my 5th year in night
    school with a minimum of 4 more to go.

MORGAN::KELLOM                                        6 lines  24-NOV-1987 10:11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    HAS ANYONE OUT THERE IS DIETLAND EVER HEARD OF A PROGRAM CALLED
    OPTIFAST. IF SO COULD YOU GIVE ME ANY INFORMATION. OR BETTER YET
    SOME SUCCESS STORIES.
    
    DEB
    
================================================================================
Note 160.1                      HEAVY IN THE MILL                         1 of 1
STAR::YANKOWSKAS "Paul Yankowskas"                    6 lines  24-NOV-1987 10:26
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    re .0:
    
    Check out note 7.
    
    
    Paul

STING::KELLOM                                        16 lines  24-NOV-1987 11:10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT I ATTENDED AN INTRODUCTORY MEETING
    ON THE OPTI-FAST PROGRAM LAST NIGHT AT THE LEOMINSTER HOSPITAL.
    THE NEXT SESSION WILL BE STARTING ON DEC 7. I WAS SO IMPRESSED WITH
    THE INFO I GOT FROM THESE PREVIOUS NOTES I HAVE DECIDED TO GO FOR
    IT. I WAS NOT SURE AT FIRST BECAUSE I HAD THE FEAR THAT MY HAIR
    WOULD FALL OUT OR SOMETHING CRAZY LIKE THAT AS A RESULT OF NOT EATING.
    BUY THE WAY THE TOTAL PROGRAM AMOUNTS TO ABOUT $2,400.00.  AND I
    WOULD LIKE TO MENTION ONE MORE THING THAT THEY DID SAY THAT JOHN
    HANCOCK WILL PAY 85% OF ONE HALF OF IT.  GOOD NEWS FOR THOSE WHO
    HAVE LIBERTY MUTUAL, THEY PAY ALL BUT THE PRICE OF THE OPTI-FAST
    POWDER. $38.00 WEEKLY.
    
    WILL KEEP YOU POSTED DEB
    
    P.S. PROGRAMS STATING IN JAN & FEB ALSO
    
================================================================================
Note 161.1                     PRAYING FOR SUCCESS                        1 of 2
BISON::HILLIGRASS                                     3 lines  24-NOV-1987 19:33
                         -< If it feels good...do it! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Good luck, it sounds like your are psyched for losing and that
    is the first step!
                                           - Sue
================================================================================
Note 161.2                     PRAYING FOR SUCCESS                        2 of 2
BUSY::MAXMIS11                                        5 lines  25-NOV-1987 06:31
                                   -< Yeah! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Go for it.  Life is too short to go thru it being unhappy with
    yourself.  You will find loads of support here (and perhaps a few
    prayers)!
    
    Marion

    I just read all of the entries in this note.  My wife "did" the
    optifast program for over a year.  She lost over 70lbs.  Looked
    great and felt great.  They (our family doctor) became big business
    and started changing the program - lost touch with the individuals.
    My wife became angery with what started to look like more interest
    in getting new member and more $.  It's been over a year since she
    ended the program and has gained back everything she lost.  Over
    time, she has come into contact with several of those in the program
    with her.  They have all put the weight back on.  When listening
    to the sales pitch, you won't hear about the many people who did
    the program without long term success.
    
    Just some "food for thought"

    I am starting today on a fasting diet called MODI-FAST, i.e. "Modified
    Fasting". You get 3 portions of  Modi-Fast a day, for a total of
    about 250 calories per day. Those 3 portions are supposed to give
    you all the proteins, lipids, glucids, minerals needed to maintain
    you physically and mentally active while fasting. 
    
    The point is, I am looking for a "pen-pal", i.e. somebody having
    just started or planning to start soon on a fasting diet (maybe
    the person in note 306 ?). I'd like to be able to post a progress
    report, via VAXmail, everyday and receive one from that person every
    day (except week-ends). We could share experiences, encouragements,
    compare weight losses, exchange ideas, etc. I'd like the exchange
    to be on a daily basis, as most fasting diets require you to weigh-in
    daily. If it works out, we could keep on corresponding after we
    have finished dieting, and that hopefully would help in the process
    of returning to a normal feeding plan while maintaining our acquired
    weight.
    
    Instead of VAXmail, we could correspond on-line through this notesfile,
    but I am afraid it would be very boring for the other people following
    more moderate diet plans, which is why I suggested using a more
    private form of correspondence. I'd plan to report once a week in
    the progress note anyway, to let everybody here know how I am doing.
    
    If anybody here is interested, please send mail to:
    
    SHIRE::BIZE    or   Joana Bize @GEO
    
    
    PS: It's not only on fasting diets that people put back on all the
        weight they have lost: it happened to me on Weight Watchers;
    	I lost 20 pounds in 10 week and put back on 28 in 3 months.
        Mind you, I am not blaming WW for my lack of persistence, just
        making the point that whatever diet you are on, you will put
        back as much as you have lost, and more, if you don't pay attention
        to what you eat once you have reached your goal (or part of
        it!)
        

	During times of fasting (less than 1000 calories/day), the body
    must draw on energy reserves to maintain essential functions.
    
    	At the initial stages of a fast (first 24 hours), glycogen and
    fat stores are used to supply glucose and energy, repsectively.
    Although most cells in the body can use fat for energy, brain cells
    depend on glucose.
    
    	As the fast continues (days 2,3), glycogen stores are depleted
    and amino acids from protein are are transformed into glucose. This
    results in a net loss of body protein tissues (LEAN BODY MASS),
    an unwanted effect.

    [ note that after only 24-48 hours, a fast will result in lean
      body mass, not fat, being consumed as the primary source of
      energy. Because of this, fasting is not a good way to lose fat ]
    
    	If the fast lasts past 1-2 weeks, the fat in the body reserves
    is transformed into ketones, which can be used by the brain for
    energy. However ketones in the blood can lead to ketosis, which
    can be fatal.
    
    	If you are fasting, do so only with medical supervision.
    
    -mike z

    Neal:
    
    I can't tell you how proud I am of you.  Not only do you feel great,
    but you must look terrific too!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    

    I got zapped the  last time I tried to enter this, one more time....
    
    I went to the opti-fast orientation last night at the local hospital
    and found out the following.
    
    its expensive.
    
    the cost were $120 for the initial lab test that they require and
    they must be done at this hospitals lab.
    a lady in the audience asked that since she worked for a medical
    lab could she have the lab work done there?  no, they had problems
    getting lab results from other labs.  well, she says, how bout if
    I hand carry them??  nope, the staff didn't feel that other labs
    use the same standards as the hospital so the only lab test that
    they would accept would have to come from their lab.
    
    each week there is a cost of $62.50 for the doctor and nurse visit,
    lab test every other week.  this must be paid in four week increments.
    
    then there is the $49.00 cost of the diet powder.  they recommended
    that 5 packets a day be consumed which would totall about 420 calories
    a day.  the only other items that may be consumed are diet sodas,
    diet drinks and of corse water.
    
    I asked what is the differance between the opti-fast and the stuff
    you can by over the counter?  there is no nutritional difference,
    but there are more calories in the stuff bought over the counter.
    however your primary care doctor could get some stuff called medi-fast
    that is very close calorie wise.  But they were strong to state
    that the opti-fast program has the behavior modification program.
    I asked that if maybe you wanted to go on a protien from over the
    counter, in conjunction with a weightloss program like ww or free
    to eat, wouldn't that work long term too?  yup, but.....then the
    doctor got up and said that there is a concern about the muscle
    loss.  I asked at what point in the weightloss would this become
    an issue??  I finally got them to admit that after a 30-40lb weight
    loss an ekg should be preformed.  I asked why couldn't a primary
    care physician do that? no reason.
    
    oh yeah, the total cost comes out close to 2400 for 26 weeks.
    
    A friend I brought with me was surprized that I wasn't thrown out
    :-)
    
    anyway I just wanted to share with ya'll what I had found out, this
    isn't meant to discourage anyone, this is just me and my pushy way
    finding other alternatives(cheaper)

    
    All protein is not equal. A lot of the over-the-counter powders
    contain vegetable protein (soy meal and such), while the Opti-Fast
    stuff contains animal protein (refined egg white). This makes a
    big difference in the safety of use, in that the animal protein
    will be used to replace that which is lost through fasting, while
    the vegetable protein will be much less efficient.
    
    Yep, the Opti-Fast program is expensive, but remember that you are
    not eating anything else, so it tends to balance out with the food
    bill. 
    
    I'll have more to say on Opti-Fast as I near the end of the program.
    I have been on it for 12 weeks now, and have lost 43 pounds.
    
    The Opti-Fast is tough to stay on, and it's expensive. But it's
    working for me. I'll be posting my experience with Opti-Fast 
    as the weeks go on.
    
    Jim McGlinchey

.52>    All protein is not equal. A lot of the over-the-counter powders
.52>    contain vegetable protein (soy meal and such), while the Opti-Fast
.53>    stuff contains animal protein (refined egg white). This makes a
.53>    big difference in the safety of use, in that the animal protein
.53>    will be used to replace that which is lost through fasting, while
.53>    the vegetable protein will be much less efficient.
    
    	I believe you're referring to what's called 'protein quality
    index'.  It's real, and all proteins are not equal, but it doesn't
    make any difference 'in safety of use', and only small differences
    in how much is needed to rebuild tissue.
    
    -mike z

    Hi, Jim!  Glad to hear you're doing so well!  Are we going to recognize
    each other?  :-)

  RE: .53:

    I don't believe that anyone really knows all there is to know about
    protein, and the ways in which our bodies use it.  Nutrition may be
    less of a black art than it used to be, but it's still fuzzy around the
    edges.  I don't find it all that unlikely that our bodies would handle
    animal proteins differently from vegetable proteins, but I'm not going
    to make any categorical statements on either side of the argument.

    Beverly

    Hello,
    
    Does anyone know if you can join Opti-fast for a month or so, or
    a couple of weeks??  Do you have to be on it for 16?
    
    Also,  does anyone know of any less expensive programs (fasting)
    similar to Opti-fast in the Southern NH area?
    
    Thanks in advance,
    
    Lori

    Most of the cost of Optifast comes in the first few weeks so starting
    the program and quitting after a few weeks would be veeery expensive.
    If thats all you need to loose is a couple of weeks worth, Optifast,
    in fact no fasting program is for you. If you are in the 40 - 50
    pound overweight class, you will need the full 26 weeks (not 16)
    to get results. Other programs are similar and perhaps a little
    less expensive but not much. Why not WW ?

    I went to an oreintation meeting a couple of weeks ago.  and they
    told us, you had to need to lose at least 50 pounds to be eligible
    for the program.  and I couldn't believe how expensive it was. 
    they wanted $625.00 up front, and about $150.00 a week, for the
    next 14 or 15 weeks or so, ( I don't remember exactly.)  John Hancock
    would pay 80% of the medical, after the deductible was met.  But
    they would not pay for any of the food supplements.  But the hospital
    wanted the money up front, and it was up to you to file with your
    insurance, and get reimbursed later.  Well, I don't know about anyone
    else, but frankly, I don't have $625.00 to just hand over to someone.
    I really was very disappointed, because I really wanted to go on
    this diet.   I don't know what I'm going to do now, I'm still trying
    to figure something out.
    
    Any ideas?
    
    Becky  

    Becky,
    
    There are other programs such as HMR, that are less expensive than
    Optifast and basically the same thing but still they are somewhat
    costly at 75 per week. Do you have less than 50 pounds to lose?
    Why not consider WW if that is the case. Not only is it less expensive,
    but it is a more sensible approach to weight loss than fasting.
    Optifast type programs are only for the very Overweight and not intended
    for those who want to lose a few (in my language thats 20 or 30).
    If you are still interested in Optifast, read my log on my Optifast
    experience in note 380 or give me a call.
    
    From a current Optifast participant who understands----
    
    Joel
    s

    OPTI-FAST IS AN OLD WAY DISGUISED AS A NEW WAY TO LOSE WEIGHT....THE 
    ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT NOW YOU SPEND ALOT OF ADDITIONAL MONIES FOR 
    SCHEDULED DOCTORS VISITS.

My new issue of either Family Circle or Woman's Day (sorry I don't remember
which one) has  an article on the "new" liquid diets and seemed to be
leaning in favor of the improved versions.

    
    My name is Lori Fogg.  My friend Lisa (not a Digital employee) started
    Opti-fast in Merrimack, NH. 2 weeks ago.  She has just completed
    her first week of fasting.
    
    I told her about this file and she thought it was great that people
    share their thoughts and give encouragement when dieting.  It helps
    so much.  I've been reading the files to her.
    
    Anyway
    
    She wanted me to report her progress to give support to other people
    who are in the process of doing the Opti-fast program.  Here goes:
    
    Lisa belongs to the Opti-fast program in Merrimack, NH.  She goes
    every Wednesday night.  Yesterday was her first fasting week.  She
    lost "9" pounds!!!!  It was tough though.  Over the weekend she
    called me a couple of times (her husband was out, and her son was
    asleep- perfect time to cheat!) for encouragement.  I'm trying to
    help give her incentive by offering to do a complete make-over when
    she loses the weight (I'm also a Cosmetologist and make-up artist).
    She is so excited about the makeover that's all she talks about.
    
    I forgot to mention that Lisa has 60 pounds to lose.  She's be on
    the "yo-yo" syndrome for years.  I told her if you put your mind
    and heart into something, you're bound to be a winner.  I have no
    doubt that she will do it.  
    
    She was really in the "I want to eat anything that's food" mode
    until she found out how much she lost.  Now, even though the drinks
    are somewhat bland (but tolerable with extracts) she has the incentive
    because she lost so quickly.
    
    I'll be reporting her progress each week.    Good luck to all out
    there doing this diet.  I was going to do it, but I was told that
    I would have to lose 40-50 pds to do this one (I have 25).  I give
    everyone credit.  This takes a lot of self discipline.  I'm on a
    half WW and half of my own.  I really have my mind set on it this
    time.  I don't think I really did on my other attempts recently.
    (makes a world of difference).
    
    Just remember, we all can do it.  Just think how much better we
    will look, and most of all feel.
    
    Take care...
    
    Lori

    I hope I don't sound silly...but what about hunger?  The reason
    I ask is because I lost a considerable amount of weight a few
    years back on Cambridge.  This was also a totally liquid diet;
    however, I was starving every minute of the few miserable months
    I was able to stand it - not to mention that my stomach has never
    been the same.
    
    As soon as I started eating real food _read meat & salads_ I
    started to put weight back on and eventually wound up heavier
    than when I started.
    
    Any insights?
    
    Karen
    

	The following note was sent to me by a noter who wishes to remain 
	anonymous.

 *******************************************************************************

       This is one person's history with one Optifast program, the one
       offerred by St Joseph's Hospital in Merrimack, NH.  The major
       elements of the plan are a 12-week, medically-supervised,
       supplemented fast, and a 26-week program of group and individual
       meetings.  The purpose of the fast  is to lose a great deal of
       weight rapidly; the purpose of the group and individual meetings
       is to get the participants to examine and change their eating
       habits and behavior toward food.
 
       This (lengthy) note describes some of my experiences with the
       program, and I hope it might help some people decide whether
       Optifast might be appropriate for them.  Whether or not my
       experience is typical, and whether or not the St Joseph Optifast
       program is representative of other programs, I have no idea.  
 
       Some history about myself:  I've been overweight forever (I'm
       41), and I managed to hit 290 in March.  Though I'd always been
       on and off diets since I was 15 (or maybe earlier), I'd never
       actually lost more than 15 or 20 pounds, and I would always go
       back to old eating habits after the "diet".  I had never joined
       any formal program (I did go to one Weight Watcher's at Work
       meeting), figuring that it's just as easy, and a lot less
       expensive, to diet by myself.  I had also more or less become
       resigned to the prospect of forever being obese.
 
       In large part because of the ongoing reports of Joel Jaffe in
       this conference last winter, I contacted the Optifast program
       office in Merrimack, NH to learn more about their program.  At an
       introductory session, we were told about the details and costs of
       the program, and we were introduced to the dietician/program
       director and the medical director.  My wife and I talked it over,
       and I signed up; the first meeting was to be April 27th.
 
       During the month between the time I signed up and the first
       meeting, there was some planning (I wouldn't do any cooking or
       food shopping during the fast), lots of joking, and especially
       lots of uncertainty and apprehension.   Food had always been a
       key element in my life, and the prospect of giving it up for 3
       months was a totally new concept, sort of like stepping on the
       moon.  My wife was extremely supportive of my hopes, but she
       didn't believe for a minute that I'd be able to adhere to the
       fast.
 
       In addition to the fast, the weekly meetings formed an important
       part of the Optifast program.  Before each meeting, everyone has
       his or her weight and blood pressure checked and visits with the
       doctor.  Every second week, blood is drawn to determine whether
       body chemistry is more or less in balance. (Before beginning the
       program, everyone  is required to undergo a complete physical
       exam.)  Each session is run by a psychotherapist who specializes
       in eating disorders, and on alternate weeks the dietician also
       joins the group meeting. 
 
       Sixteen people--11 women and five men--were in my Optifast group,
       and the only thing we had in common was excess weight.  Among the
       men, one was retired, another was the station manager at Channel
       9 in Manchester, another had his own consulting business, one ran
       a construction business, and I was the technogeek.  The women
       were equally diverse: professionals who ran their own business or
       worked for someone else, two or three who worked at home, and
       even one who worked at the Optifast office.  At the first
       meeting, we introduced ourselves and did as best we could
       learning each others' names.  I'd thought that the fast would
       begin with the first week, but it did not actually start until
       the second.
 
       At the second meeting, we all loaded up with Optifast packets and
       a shaker.  Five times a day, we were to have an Optifast shake;
       in addition, we were to drink at least 2 quarts of fluids per
       day.  Water was best, but diet soda, coffee, tea, and sugar-free
       chewing gum were also allowed.  But nothing else.
 
       The first week of fasting was not much fun.  Most people
       experienced headaches, but these went away for all but one person
       after a few days.  Everyone lost weight--the most spectacular
       losses the first week belonged to two of the men, each of whom
       lost 18 pounds.  Yep, 18. The dietician explained that much of
       the weight lost during the first two weeks of the fast is water
       weight, since the fast tends to deplete the body of its fluids. 
       He also explained ketosis to us--that for the first two days that
       we stopped eating, the body got its energy from the Optifast
       shakes plus existing carbohydrates that were lying around.  After
       the third day of the fast, though, the body got its energy from
       the shakes and from burning existing fat.  Interesting to learn,
       and also a strong message to anyone tempted to have a little bite
       to eat: a couple pieces of toast could cost three days of
       fasting.
 
       In the early weeks of the fast, most of the weekly sessions were
       spent discussing how people coped without solid food, especially
       when others around them (at work, at home) were eating.  Nearly
       everyone had similar reactions--they had never realized how much
       of daily life was centered around food.  And the hardest part was
       the smells: the smell of a barbecue next door, of Burger King as
       you passed by, of bacon and eggs in the morning.
 
       As the fast wore on, the weight came off.  After the first week
       or two, most of the men consistently lost an average of 4-5
       pounds per week.  Most of the women averaged about 3 pounds per
       week over a period of time, but it was very common for the women
       to lose five or six pounds one week and nothing the next.  
 
       Hunger was not the toughest part of the fast; in fact, hunger
       wasn't really a factor after the first few days.  Apparently, one
       of the side effects of ketosis is a loss of appetite.  (Another
       side effect is awful breath--I'd brush my teeth 5 or 6 times a
       day, and even that only helped a little.) Occasionally, there
       would be some serious cravings, but I'd just rant and rave for a
       few hours, my wife would somewhere find the patience to deal with
       me, and the cravings would pass.  
 
       Physical woes, however, were common during the fast, both for me
       and for others.  I experienced several gout attacks (not an
       infrequent side-effect of the fast), and most other people
       experienced some difficulty or another.  Compounding the problem
       were limitations on the medications that we were allowed to use:
       many over-the-counter and prescriptive remedies were not
       permitted because of their potential side-effects during the
       fast.
 
       There were some awkward times during the fast at meal times.  At
       work, I avoided the lunch table at work (we have a regular
       lunchtime group) for the first few weeks, and then started
       showing up with just a large diet Coke.  On a few occasions, I
       found myself in a restaurant; it wasn't much fun, frankly, to sit
       over a soda water while others were eating. I wasn't envious at
       all of their food--I was simply bored.  We did go on vacation
       (about the 10th week of the fast), staying in a resort where we
       rented a condo.  That worked out extremely well: we saved money
       by making (my wife's) meals, and it was a refreshing change to
       see that we could have a perfectly wonderful vacation without
       worrying about where to eat lunch and dinner every day.
 
       The focus of the weekly discussion sessions, meanwhile, was being 
       turned to try to help us examine our attitudes toward food and
       eating, and trying to recognize the causes and cues of past
       overeating.  Sometimes the classes were effective, and other
       times they seemed to go nowhere.  One of the men in the group was
       especially unhelpful to the process, as he had no use for any of
       the group dynamics or techniques; unfortunately, his presence and
       potential for criticism sometimes kept others in the group from
       expressing their thoughts and feelings.  At first, several people
       rejected the possibility that obesity was in any way related to
       emotional factors--to these people, the weekly sessions that
       tried to get at people's emotions and feelings were frustrating
       and/or boring.
 
       As the weekly sessions went on, a bond came to be formed among
       the people in the group.  About the fifth week, Lucille announced
       that she'd broken the fast royally on Saturday, went back on the
       fast on Sunday, then pigged out again on Monday.  Lucille is a
       special needs teacher, of a certain age, and was perhaps the most
       open person in the group; we all tried to come to her support. 
       She said it was ok and that she was back on track, but the
       following week her story was repeated.  No one else admitted to
       eating anything at that point.  [In the 10th week, though, a poll
       showed that 9 people had stayed on the fast, 6 had eaten
       something during the fast, and one person had stayed on the fast
       except for an olive that he'd absent-mindedly eaten when someone
       put one in his  club soda.  We took a vote, and by a 9-6 margin
       we determined that he'd broken the fast.  Just goes to show how
       mean we'd all become after not eating for over two months.]
 
       The value of the weekly sessions will vary tremendously, not only
       from one Optifast program to another, but even at the same site. 
       The relationship that develops (or fails to develop) between the
       therapist and the group depends on the abilities of the therapist
       /group leader and the willingness of the individuals within the
       group to function as a group and contribute to it.  I obviously
       can't compare our group to any other, but it seemed to me that
       our group fell short on both counts.  The therapist was extremely
       weak in some key areas (nutritional science and dealing with
       criticisms, to name two), and the group never seemed to coalesce
       and find the sense of unity that one might have hoped for.  As a
       member of the group, I shoulder part of the responsibility for
       that.
 
       During the fast, weight losses among women ranged from about 25
       to 50 pounds (losses weren't publicly announced, but we always
       talked about them among ourselves during the chat sessions in the
       waiting area before the regular weekly sessions) and men lost
       from 40 to over 100 pounds. Not surprisingly, the smallest weight
       losses were among the people who had eaten food during the fast. 
 
       As the end of the fast approached, everyone was looking forward
       to their first meal--4 ounces of broiled chicken (no skin, of
       course) and a cup of boiled broccoli never had so much appeal. 
       The 6 weeks that followed the fast would be a gradual
       re-introduction of food (that is, a controlled combination of
       food and Optifast packets), followed by 6 or 7 weeks of regulated
       eating without any Optifast.  
 
       As food was reintroduced, more time was spent in weekly meetings
       discussing the nature of the food that we should be eating (or
       thinking about eating), with the key being lots of fiber and a
       minimum of fat. One particularly revealing meeting was when we
       saw how much fat was in a typical day's food, even for a dieter. 
       The biggest surprises were cheese (10 grams of fat per ounce for
       many cheeses like cheddar or swiss), eggs (5 grams in an egg
       yolk), and lean hamburger (12-15 grams). As a rule of thumb, we
       were told to keep our fat intake to less than 30 grams during the
       reintroduction of food; ultimately, fat intake should be about
       20-25 grams per 1000 calories.
 
       The post-fast part of the Optifast program is clearly its weakest
       part.  The daily food/Optifast allowance was less than clear, at
       least in the Merrimack program--the Optifast manual told us one
       thing, the crudely-prepared handouts from Optifast told us
       something different. It would have been much more useful if we
       had been given daily menus, at least for the six weeks following
       the fast.  Although the nutritional information that we got at
       the group meetings was informative and helpful, I don't think
       that we were fully prepared to make the food decisions being
       asked of us.  For 12 weeks, the decisions were easy--you either
       stick to the plan and have no solid food, or you break the fast.
       Afterwards, though, the decisions were much more subtle; if it's
       ok to have 4 ounces of chick, would it really hurt to have 5 or
       6?  How about 2 slices of toast instead of 1?  
 
       During the post-fast part of the program, the dropout rate for
       our group was high.  During the fast, absences were rare; in the
       weeks following the fast, some people skipped sessions and others
       dropped out of the program altogether.  The Optifast people told
       us that the people who kept the weight off were the ones who
       stayed in the program: I'm not sure if that's because the program
       content promotes sound dietary habits, or if the people who tend
       to continue are the people who are most motivated to maintain
       their loss.
 
       By the final week of the program, only five of us remained.  Ten
       had dropped out (so I can't tell you how they did in the 3 months
       after the fast), and one woman, tragically, died.  [We were told
       that her death was due to a fast-moving ovarian cancer and was
       unrelated to the Optifast program, but who knows?]  Of the five
       who stayed until the end, most had gained back 2-5 pounds from
       the end of the fast, one person had lost 3 pounds, and one man
       regained 22(!) of the 90 that he had lost.
 
       I was one of the lucky ones.  At the end of the fast, I'd lost 75
       pounds, and four months after the fast ended, I've lost five
       more. I'm at a weight that I hadn't seen in more than twenty
       years, exercising regularly, feeling better than I ever have, no
       longer taking medication for high blood pressure, and loving all
       the stares of disbelief from people who haven't seen me in a
       while.  My wife now calls me her second husband.  Not only can I
       buy clothes in any store, but I've got a tremendous selection. 
       (Of course, paying for all the needed new clothes is a different
       issue.)  Best of all, perhaps, is a proud sense of
       accomplishment.
 
       I still haven't resolved all of the issues regarding food.   For
       more than forty years, my eating habits supported obesity; it
       would be unrealistic to think that I'll unlearn all of those
       habits in 26 weeks.  I have learned to eliminate most fat from my
       diet, but I'm still learning how to eat an appropriate amount of
       food.  (Sometimes, it still seems that if 1 bagel is good, three
       bagels are three times as good.)  One of the most surprising
       benefits of the fast, though, was that the 12 weeks without solid
       food gave me an unexpectedly good opportunity to examine and
       think about my attitudes toward food and the way I was eating,
       without having to deal with the thrice-daily (or more) question
       of what to eat for the next meal.
 
       Is Optifast worth the cost?  It's an expensive program--probably
       close to $4000 (including all the medical tests), of which
       insurance will reimburse a reasonable amount.  For me, having
       lost more weight that I had ever dared to dream, Optifast was a
       bargain: I'd willingly have paid twice the price for the results. 
       On the other hand, I'll never know if I would have realized
       similar success with another, less costly program.  Somehow, it
       was a combination of my own motivation to lose weight/follow the
       plan and Optifast's supervised, 12-week fast and behavior and
       diet modification classes (during the fast and the 3 months that
       followed).  
 
       But for many people in my group, it was not worth the expense. 
       The same combination that worked for some of us was not so
       successful for others. The people who only lost 25 or 30 pounds
       during the fast and the ones who made no substantive changes to
       their eating habits don't have much to show for their investment,
       and, six months or a year from now,  it would not be surprising
       to find them weighing as much or more as when they started the
       program.
 
       For people who have 50 or more pounds to lose, my guess is that
       Optifast has a better success rate than most other programs. 
       (I'm not sure what to use as a metric for success--maybe the
       percentage of people who lose 50 or more pounds and maintain the
       loss for 2 years?)  However, I would also guess that Optifast's
       success rate is still well under 20%, probably closer to (or even
       below) 10%. 
 
       Would I recommend the Optifast program to people looking to lose
       weight?  Yes, sort of, but with several qualifiers:
 
        - The only Optifast program that I have experience with is the
          one in Merrimack; others might be better or worse.  And key
          aspects of the program are the other people in your group and
          the therapist who will lead the weekly sessions.  If you're
          considering Optifast, I'd urge you to talk individually to the
          therapist _before_ joining the program, just to make sure that
          there won't be a personality conflict or other communications
          barrier between you and the therapist. 
 
        - I'd recommend the Optifast program to you only if you have a
          _lot_ of weight to lose--at least 50 pounds.  The program is
          severe, both in terms of the fast and its approach to
          addressing eating habits.  In one way, it is an easy way to
          lose weight, but I would not suggest it for someone trying to
          lose 20 or 30 pounds.  
 
        - Be aware that other, much less expensive programs also
          exist, and that these programs have worked for some people. 
          From my wife's experience, I believe that Weight Watchers can
          be an excellent program for some people, and others in this
          conference have described the merits of other programs.  I
          have no idea how to tell in advance which program is likely to
          be best for any individual; my own opinion is that Optifast
          offers at least a moderately higher chance of success for
          people who are extremely overweight. 
 
        - I would recommend joining the program only when you are
          feeling emotionally strong and have a good deal of energy that
          you are willing to expend.  The fast is draining, both
          physically and emotionally.   If you're going through (or have
          just been through) a tough time, that's not the time to start
          Optifast; I also wouldn't recommend starting Optifast if you
          have tried any other weight loss program within the past 3
          months.
 
        - If you have other people in your home, I would strongly
          suggest discussing the program with them before you join. 
          Family members are invited to come to the introductory
          session, and it is extremely beneficial both to them and to
          you if they can understand the nature of the program and some
          of the stresses that you'll be under.  You might want to
          negotiate rules for other people eating in the house while
          you're on the fast--for example, no meals in the living room,
          no open packages of snacks lying around the house--and it's a
          good idea to have everyone agree on the ground rules before
          you begin the fast.
 
        - If you live by yourself, the fast might be very difficult. 
          Everyone in our group needed some extra support at one time or
          another during the fast, since nearly every one of us had used
          food as an outlet for relieving stress or depression.  I think
          that if I were living alone, I would want to have a very good
          and dear friend available to talk to during the fast, to share
          the good moments and the bad.  (And there were plenty of good
          moments during the fast--especially the news from the scale
          and the new clothes that could now be worn.)
 
        - Whether you choose the Optifast program or a different
          program, realize that you will have to beat the odds if you
          are going to lose weight and keep it off.  Be ready to fight,
          because you're going to constantly have to say no to the voice
          within you that says it's ok to break the fast, or to have the
          corn muffin that you hadn't planned for, or to have the extra
          couple of beers after work.  You won't be successful all of
          the time, but if you fight back enough and say no enough, then
          the voice seems to go away--or at least shows up a lot less
          frequently--and you'll be on your way.  
 
       And there is no shame for the many, many people who try Optifast
       or other programs and who don't realize their goal.  A fat, nice
       person who screws up a weight loss plan is still a nice person;
       someone with the personality of a weasel who loses a barrelful of
       weight is still a weasel.  Medically, you're better off to remain
       at a constant, obese weight than to yo-yo up and down. 
 
 

    Bravo!!!  Thanks for sharing that with us!

    Can anyone tell me what's happened to Neal??
    
    Phyllis

    He has apparently left the company.
    
    
    /andy/

    Neal left the company over a year ago.  He's now working at a small
    (relatively) computer company in LA called NER (can't remember what it
    stands for).  He's now married to a lovely gal and they're very happy. 
    I'll see if I can dig up his net address if anyone would like to send
    him a note.
    
    -- Kristy