Conference rocks::uk_digital

I'm not sure but there's a hint of people argueing for 
their right to free speech in notes conferences in that. 
ie: you're not going about your own business in here, 
you're meant to be going about the companies business. 

Must say it's an excellent way to boost morale though
- accuse all the regular employees who're just hanging 
in of being thieves by implications..... 

    Security at some sites in Digital UK is a joke.
    
    I'm probably not safe to say any more than that. I have pointed it out
    to People In Authority In Reading on more than one occasion. I don't
    know what it takes to get something done, so I'm not sure I'll bother,
    next time.
    
    regards
    john

    It varies from site to site. I went to Enterprise House yesterday for
    the first time since the refurbishment. The security there (not the
    people but the "procedure") has gone from one extreme to the other
    (although improvements were definitely needed).
    
    When I worked at HHL from 1987-1995 the security was very lax, you
    could easily walk through Reception at a busy period, get in a lift and
    gain access to any floor. Now, there are card key readers everywhere.
    You even need your cardkey to go to the toilets!
    
    Jane.

    Re:  Note 0
    
    I do not think that any recent thefts should be discussed in the notes
    conference, it has no real relevance to any security measures being
    introduced.  
    
    Also thefts in general are kept quiet and are not freely discussed,
    which is good because they can cause embarrasment to the individuals
    concerned who may or may not have taken adequate security precautions
    for their equipment.  Therefore the individuals concerned are also
    partly to blame for any thefts which occur.  (This however is my own
    personal opinion).
    
    Also with regards to the searches they are a very good deterant but as
    you have stated Richard you can say "NO" and that is the end of the
    matter.  I actually agree with searchs as I have nothing to hide It
    doesn't bother me.  But to each there own!!!!!!
    
    
    

As I'm not embarassed at having been a victim of a crime: 

> Therefore the individuals concerned are also
>    partly to blame for any thefts which occur.  (This however is my own
>    personal opinion).

Am I to blame for having 3 cds (personal music ones) 
stolen from my desk when they were in a drawer at the back ?

	Or my mug off my desk? 

	Or my writing mat? 

	Or numerous pens? 

	Or my CD caddy?

	Or manuals and documentation that was in a filing cabinet? 

in your personal opinion...????

the desks/cabinet couldn't be locked as most of them are missing keys 
around here, the idea that someone actually riffles through the desks
at night is taking it a bit far.  Am I really meant to take everything 
home with me??  including desk furniture such as desk-tidies, pens
and writing mats? If so will I not be accused of theft at the door
by security.

We've even had people nicking other peoples personal mouse mats they've 
brought in to cheer their desks up around here recently. 

>I actually agree with searchs as I have nothing to hide 

I think the searches are more likely to embarrase people whether
they have to say no and then have people implying they have something
to hide than knowing they have been a victim of crime. 

In this building they aren't kept quiet, building mails are often sent
out so everyone knows to be more cautious having been reminded there's
a thief on the premises. 

>    I do not think that any recent thefts should be discussed in the notes
>    conference, it has no real relevance to any security measures being
>    introduced.  
 
	How so? Thievery is what the searches are designed to curtail, as I
	understood it.
   
>    Also thefts in general are kept quiet and are not freely discussed,

	I would suggest that it might be better to discuss this sort of thing
	more. There may be more ideas of how to combat specific thiefs, and
	more buy in from the workforce. 

>    which is good because they can cause embarrasment to the individuals
>    concerned who may or may not have taken adequate security precautions
>    for their equipment.  Therefore the individuals concerned are also
>    partly to blame for any thefts which occur.  (This however is my own
>    personal opinion).
 
	This is a bit like blaming rape on a girl who wears a short skirt
	or a plunging neckline, rather than the perpetrator!
   
>    Also with regards to the searches they are a very good deterant but as
>    you have stated Richard you can say "NO" and that is the end of the
>    matter.  

	I don't believe that it is clear to the workforce that saying no is 
	an option. 

>	I actually agree with searchs as I have nothing to hide It
>    	doesn't bother me.  But to each there own!!!!!!
    
	I'll not co-operate with searches, not because I'm a thief, but 
	because I have some basic rights, which the company is demanding, 
	rather than politely requesting I set aside. 

	Operating a 'jack-boot' approach to peoples' rights is not valuing
	our most important resource.

R.

If I were responsibile for security I'd be looking to trap thiefs rather than
annoy everyone else. It's likely to be far more effective when you consider
that things like memory chips, modems, and even disk drives can be slipped in
a pocket. What security device could prevent that other than searching everyone
all the time?

Dave.

Richard, I agree with you about only people working late seem to get searched! it happens to me alot as well! Gerald

Re: stop and search.

.0 stated that he felt it was a violation of his civil liberties. 

Well put yourself in the companies position. On the one hand you have employees
complaining to management that they are having items stolen off their desks.
And on the other hand you have people winging about civil liberties.

So what is the solution? 
If it is an employee stealing something, then to make it known that people 
will be searched when they leave the building out of hours will act as a 
deterent. 
If you think this is a violation then take it up through the official channels.
Refusing to be searched by the security gaurd, only arouses his suspicions
about you. Next thing you know you might get a visit from UK Security. If you
refuse to co-operate with them you will be out on your ear. Afterall the guy
on the door is only doing his job. Give him a break. He is probably just as
pissed off as you are at having to stop and search everyone that leaves the
building after 17:30.

You also ask if thieves only work in then evening. Well at the risk of being
blunt, no. But think about it this way. If you were planning to steal something
from someones desk you would wait until the person who's desk you had in mind 
had left the building for the day. Otherwise either one of his colleauges or
possible even the victim himself might spot you. I would definetly question
anyone rifling through the desks of a colleauge. And I would hope that they
would do the same if they saw someone rifling through my desk.

Being stopped and searched is a part of life. I get searched on a weekley
basis. At least I know that no fingers can be pointed at me, because after all,
why would somone refuse to be searched unless they had something to hide. ;-)

>I cannot remember anything in my contract that dictates I suspend my
>civil liberties whilst on Digital's premises.

Probably because you didn't. Neither did I or anyone else who works for DEC. 
But we did sign a contract, and in that contract if you care to look you have
agreed to follow company policy. It is now company policy to randomly search 
people who leave late. My advice to you would be to just live with and accept 
the fact that you are working in the same building as people who have less 
morals than you. These measure are designed to catch them out. With a little 
co-operation they might just do that.

Steven

PS, yes I have been stopped and searched, and NO I didn't refuse. Why should I?
    

    RKE,
    
    >>I cannot remember anything in my contract that dictates I suspend my 
    >>civil liberties whilst on Digital's premises.
    
    Would these be the same civil liberties that give the police the power
    to stop and search you in the street if they feel they have reason to
    do so?
    
    
    Please note, I agree with what yourself, and the bulk of the noters in this
    string are saying, it's just that the days of "suss" operate both
    inside and outside this building. 
    
    
    
    
    			Stretch.

    Haven't had anything nicked from our new office yet, but I did arrive
    one morning to find a large mound of human faeces on the floor. I
    suggested to security that should they trace the perpetrator, he be 
    referred to either a doctor or Norris McWhirter: this was the most 
    outstanding "Richard" (no offence RKE) I've ever seen. Perhaps someone 
    had brought their pet bear into the office.
    
    Phil Gilliland.

The signs here say you'll only be searched if leaving after
5:30 - surely a thief would have the sense to make sure that 
they only take stolen stuff with them when they leave at 
5:30 :-)



Without pointing any fingers, a little question of curiosity... 

Is it just the DEC staff who are searched or are the 
cleaning and security staff searched too? 

If they reckon the thefts are only happening out of hours 
then other than a few guys up in OOH/CCD/whatever they're
called now then they're the majority of people in at the times
of suspicion 

In companies where thievery is rife searches are an accepted part of the 
regime, catalogue distribution warehouses for eg.

However I am not sure what basis they have in law if they were to be 
challenged.

I think that it comes down to the contract issue, where you have agreed to 
abide by company policies. This now appears to be a policy, therefore you 
must surrender to search or be in breach of contract. There is of course no 
way the company would sack you and risk a tribunal for such a refusal.

Earlier someone mentioned the security at other locations being a joke. I'm 
not sure thats totally right. It certainly used to be. However since coming 
back I have noticed an increase in security.

Ask yourself how many people carrying out laptops are:

a) also carrying a property pass allowing them to.

b) the legitimate owner of the laptop.

Stu

re.13:

>I think that it comes down to the contract issue, where you have agreed to 
>abide by company policies. This now appears to be a policy, therefore you 
>must surrender to search or be in breach of contract. 

Is that a legal opinion you're quoting? It seems a little one sided to say the
company may amend a contract merely by publishing policies.

>a) also carrying a property pass allowing them to.

What's one of those? I have a laptop but have never been given a pass!

>b) the legitimate owner of the laptop.

I think you mean 'keeper'.

Dave.

When the searches were introduced I asked about a pass for my Laptop and was 
told the searches did not apply to carrying laptops out of the building. I 
thought that this was the main piece of equipment being stolen!

    FWIW, last time I went to Manufacturing at Ayr, they had just installed
    airport-style metal detectors which everyone had to walk through (and 
    submit to a bag search !). I believe this was because they were
    'losing' a lot of SIMMS and CPUs.

The main laptop user I've seen around here is I believe 
actually bringing his own laptop into the office, 
if there were property passes for these things would
he be obliged to get one for his own property?
In which case why not for calculators etc?

    It would be interesting to find out whether the no. of thefts has
    actually gone down since they started search peoples bags etc.

    Anyway, if I wanted to steal anything I'd simply walk through the front
    reception entrance during work hours... who's going to stop you or
    search your bag?

    Cheers,

    	Rick.

    re .17
    
    >bringing his own laptop into the office
    
    Personal property of this type should be signed in at reception and
    signed out on leaving. This is the norm out of hours and should be the
    same during office hours.
    
    Royston

    Why can't they install a security device inside each portable which
    would transmit a signal as you went through the turnstyles... that way
    you would know when the equipment left the building and who had taken
    it.
    
    Cheers,
    
    	Rick. 

.20 cause it costs money. 

    It must cost less than loosing laptops & all the work they will
    contain. 
    
    Cheers,
    
    	Rick.  

    Re .20
    
    There was a device like that featured on "Tomorrow's World" a couple of
    months ago.  
    
    As far as I recall there was something attached to the Laptop/PC and 
    something else attached to the keeper.  If they didn't match up then
    alarm bells rang as the person left the building.
    
    Let me throw in another interesting query:-
    
    I work on a customer site and keep my Laptop securely chained to my
    desk.  If I forgot to secure it, and it did happen to "walk" would we cast
    suspicion on the customer or just "take it on the chin"?
    
    John