Conference rdvax::new_england_patriots

    Forget the O/U stuff that's the baloney/hype put out by the 
    crowd in Vegas to serve their own interests. Who cares.
    
    The teams defenses will be the controlling factor of the game.
    The special teams will be a secondary key. This isn't going to be
    a wide-open, high scoring game folks. Both teams will try to keep
    their oppositions offense on the field for as short as possible.
    There will be a lot of short pass stuff, with few long bombs.
    That's my take. I could be completely wrong, but who cares, it's 
    all in the fun of pontificating about the outcome.
    
    Pats 24
    GB   17
    
    
    G O   P A T S !   G O   P A T S !   G O   P A T S !   G O   P A T S !  
    
    
         CURDLE THE CHEESE!  CURDLE THE CHEESE!  CURDLE THE CHEESE!
    
    
     2
    b

    
    	Just to say this before the BIG WIN on Sunday.....
    
    	No matter what happens in the Big Easy, THANK YOU Patriots for a
    great year! Everyone can take their stats and analysis and any other
    discussions and argue till the cows come home. The play on the field is
    all that matters and the Patriots have been very entertaining in that
    regard.
    
    ed

      To all of you PATSY DREAMERS, wake up and smell the cheese
    because the PATS DO NOT HAVE A PRAYER ON SUNDAY.  Oh yeah they do, I
    forgot, they have to attend church on Sunday.  
    
    I'm from New England and the reality has set in.
    
    FINAL SCORE:
    GREEN BAY SUPER BOWL CHAMPS : 49
    NEW ENGLAND SUPER BOWL CHUMPS : 00
      GET OFF THE BAND WAGON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    
    RE .68
    
    I smell the cheese and it STINKS like Green Cheese to like me, rotted.
    Or is it Swiss cheese as Bledsoe's going to be throwing through your
    receivers like they got holes in thier bodies. 
    
    Prepare for the next great upset since Joe Namath's Jets beat the
    Colts. In fact this one's going to be even BIGGER. 
    
    The Pack will be flat on thier back after this game. That will be thier
    reality to the shock of much of the nation.
    
    SQUEEZE THE CHEESE! SMACK THE PACK!
    
    PATRIOTS 	38
    SLACKERS    17
    
    				Sean
    

    
    
    Enjoy the game folks!
    
    
    	JAMBALAYA! 
    
    		SQUEEZE THE CHEEZE
    
    				SACK THE PACK
    
    
    and all that other good stuff!
    
    Let's go Pats....bring one home!
    
    
    CF

    Well all I have to say to that cheesehead  a couple back is.
    
    I'D RATHER BE DEAD THAN WEAR CHEESE ON MY HEAD!!!!!!
    
    
    GO PATS

    
    Packers 24, Patriots 14 (hope I'm wrong...)
    
    
    glenn
    

    I believe both offenses will be able to move the ball effectively. The
    defenses will have their moments in this game as well. With the Pakcers
    down by 3 points with little time left, Farve will throw an INT which 
    will be brought back for a TD. If you've got a square with 7's, then 
    you're the lucky guy/gal.
    
    
    Patriots -27
    Packers  -17
    
    Sean
    

From:	US1RMC::"rpasquale@pcmail.casc.com" 24-JAN-1997 13:38:40.73
To:	Bob Battersby  24-Jan-1997 1009 -0500 <netcad::battersby>
CC:	
Subj:	Re: Hey mon...you getting psych'ed or what? :-)

        I am predicting a Patriots blowout! This is just for the Nazz :))
     
        Patriots speed at linebacker essentially cancels out the Favre
     
     speed factor... the Packer's DB's can't stay with Glenn and company..
     
      we're too fast for them... the key to this game is whether or not the
     
     O-line can keep sean jones and company from getting to bledsoe.. .I 
     
     think Martin and Byars are going to have a big day and Bledsoe will be 
     
     very effective... Plus there is the Parcell's factor... 
     
        I wish Steve Grogan was back there today instead of Bledsoe but
     
     he's not.. by the way... i hear that Chris Palmer may not be back
     
     next  year.. it would be great for Bledsoe if they would hire Grog's
     
     to teach this kid....
     
     
        My prediction:
     
     
        Pats   38
        GB     17
     
     
     
     /Frammus



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% To: Bob Battersby  24-Jan-1997 1009 -0500 <netcad::battersby>
% Subject: Re: Hey mon...you getting psych'ed or what? :-)

    
    Had a dream last night. Pats were up 50-0 at the half. Woke up before
    the second half though.
    
    ed

    
    Well, I'm going to have to go with....
    
         head:   Pack 31-17
         heart:  Pats 27-24
    
    I wish I could say I "think" the Pats will win, but I really
    can honestly only hope...
    
    - Sean
    
    

 This is a pretty good setup. 

 The packers are over confident and overrated and have a key defenive 
 injury. 

 Alot/most of media attention has focused on the Kraft/Parcells show
 which keeps the media-zoo and related distractions away from the
 players.

 The Pats are pissed about getting no respect from anyone.

 There's alot of pressure on the Packers. Not only are they expected to
 win, but win big. There's really very little pressure on the Pats.

 S.I. had the Packers on the cover.

 The Pats have alot of underrated talent and it's going to show.

 Pats by 16. Something like 34-18

    Parcell's daughter works SI and he stated "she had a lot to do with
    keeping the Pat's off the cover" (believe it or not). One of the
    previous noters correctly called the Pat's move to another hotel for
    the last 2 evenings. Parcells is following his own previous SB pre game
    plan to the T. He is a supertious one isn't he....
    
    Pats 28
    GB   24
    
    What is the Over Under anyway about 52.
    

    
      I read a couple of articles the other day which were interviews with
    Green Bay's Sean Jones (DE) and Frank Winters (C) who had a lot to say
    about how they were there to "win this one for me". Alot of Packers
    there playing for personal victories. I like this attitude,a couple of
    misques and the unit begins to separate. 
       The Pack will cut off their noses to spite their faces.
    
    
    JB

    
      Obviously for anyone reading the papers or watching the Sport news
    (ESPN) that all favor the Pack (As does New Orleans), very little 
    respect or notice was given to the Patriots as they wrapped up the  
    season for earning the Bye and how they did in the Playoffs. The 
    only reason they're getting alittle bit of press is because they're
    the only other team left. So as far as respect go's the Pats don't
    have it yet but maybe by Sunday night they'll show up not only the
    national media but the rest of the NFL that they have the will and
    the capability to win it all. The have the players on both sides of 
    the ball and a pretty good special team squad as well. Coupled with 
    the coaches the Pats have should give them the extra edge they need
    to pull this win off. The Pats may not be the best AFC team, but they
    have played up to the game when they needed. Thats one reason why
    they're where they are.
    
    Pats  28
    Pack  17
    
    Side note: Something I heard today while watching ESPN, 39 years ago
    there were two teams playing each other in the Super Bowl with the
    same letters  C Vs C, Colts vs Cowboys, AFC won.  13 years lator there 
    were two teams playing in the Super Bowl with the same letters (R),
    Redskins vs Raiders, AFC won, 13 years lator there are two teams playing
    in the Super Bowl, (P) Patriots vs the Pack,........ I want to see this  
    trend keep going.
    
    3M 
     

   Bledsoe is due for a huge game.

 Patriots   38

 Packers    31

 It's going to be a close one but we will be dancin' in the streets!!!!!



                  Lil Ed

	Even though the Pack won I think the Pats have nothing to be
	ashamed of. They played their hearts out and never quit. While
	the team needs some tweaking as far as personnel they're not
	far away.

	Let's do it again next year. ;-)

    Well the better team won. Desmond Howard was the differance. Where the
    heck did the Pats running game go or why didn't Perkins and Parcells
    have any faith in it? The Front 7 on Defense shut the run down fairly
    well but the big plays against the secondary killed them. Bledsoe had
    his moments good and awful. 
    Folks it was a GREAT season. This team exceeded just about every
    rational fans expectations. They were the 4th youngest team in the
    league. The only notable Free Agent possibility is Slade. Now the chore
    for whoever is going to lead this team is to take it to the next level.
    It will take 2 or 3 key Free Agents. They cann't rely on the draft to
    pluck a sure starter this year drafting 29th. 
    
    Mike

    Best line that I heard this morning was that Parcells should bring
    Otis "My Man" Smith to NYJ with him...
    
    Congrats to the AFC Champs, though for a great season and for making
    the month of January a little easier to endure... 

	The Pats did great for the year, and went to the Dance. During the
 SB, they did a couple mistakes Drew forced a couple for int's, the DB's
 let the receiver get behind them, and a couple mis-tackles during Desmond
 run back, and a stupid penalty play by Clay to keep the ball in the Packs
 posession for another 5 min or so.... Overall, a good game. That run back
 broke their back, though. Bummer....... Oh well, there's always next year.....

	Read this AM that the Pats have 15 free agents and possibly a few
 coaches. I still hope that all this controversy was created to keep
 the media pressure off the team, and that the Tuna and company all come back
 for another run at the Big Dance next year......

	Got my fingers crossed........

	Norm

    
    Yeah, the Desmond Howard return was the killer, it just sucked the life
    out of them after that. But I have to agree with many of the people
    here that they did alot of good things and played a pretty good game, 
    but they gave up too many big plays on both sides of the ball to be
    able to win it. But you have to give them credit for making a game of 
    it by coming back after the 10-0 Packer lead, and then coming within 
    one touchdown late in the third quarter. They played thier hearts out
    and you have to be proud of them for that. You could tell they wanted
    to win this game bad.
    
    After seeing how this young team played in this SB I just hope that 
    there will be some continuity next year, especially if Parcells does
    not come back, because you really have to believe that with a few players 
    that they can make it back to the big dance.
    
    

I was surprised that Graham was back with Megget to receive the kickoffs,
and not Troy Brown.  I don't remember Brown playing at all.  Was that ever
mentioned by anyone?

    
> I was surprised that Graham was back with Megget to receive the kickoffs,
> and not Troy Brown.  I don't remember Brown playing at all.  Was that ever
> mentioned by anyone?
    
    Troy Brown was placed on the inactive list for the game.  Coach's
    decision, no injury apparently...
    
    glenn
    

Why did the Pats punt on 4th down with 5-6 minutes to go?  They were down
by 14.  They pretty much conceded the game at that point.  Also, why didn't
they show Favre's touchdown from a goal line view?  I still question whether
he got in or not.  The O-line was a let down in the 4th.  They couldn't
stop 3 defensive lineman.

Anyway, it was good to see them there.  Hopefully, we won't have to wait
too long for the next one.

Cheers, Grant.
(a Pats fan from Nova Scotia)

    
    > Why did the Pats punt on 4th down with 5-6 minutes to go? 
    
    With 5-6 minutes to go you still have enough time to get get the ball
    back once or twice, and if only once you can try the onside kick.
    
    >  Also, why didn't they show Favre's touchdown from a goal line view?  
    
    The thing that burnt me is how FOX showed barely any instant replay at
    all. I would have liked to see a reply when the Packer guy fumbled the
    ball, as I thought that was a fumble. But they called him down even 
    though it did'nt look it. That was the quickest whistle I saw,
    considering the refs pretty much ate the whistle the entire game.
    
    				Sean
                     
    

   This Team will never win the BIG one with Bledsoe as the QB.
   If the Pat's get the Jets 1st round pick, I would trade Bledsoe
   and draft Payton Manning..... Bledsoe has not developed over the
   last 4 years. He cannot read defenses, has no sense of pressure
   in the pocket and can't run to save his life.

   Just my .02


   _sbn

    >I would have liked to see a reply when the Packer guy fumbled the
    >ball, as I thought that was a fumble. But they called him down even
    >though it did'nt look it. That was the quickest whistle I saw,
    >considering the refs pretty much ate the whistle the entire game.
    
    Can you be more specific about the time of the ballgame you're
    ferring to on this fumble, I'd like to take another look myself
    perhaps tonight when I play back portions of the game.
    For the most part, I thought the refs chosen did a good job of
    calling the game with no real controversial calls made.
    
    In  terms of how the game was played out by the Pats coaches, I
    did think that Meggett was over used, instead of playing Byars
    more. The times when Byars was in there for the run, he consistently
    got good yardage.
    On defensing White, why did the Pats decide to relax their double
    coverage on Reggie White in the second half?
    Pats secondary significantly underestimated GB's Rison, and Freeman.
    They were capable of covering them far better than they showed
    yesterday.
    The Pats defense for a while shut down the Packers running game
    altogether, the degree to which did surprise me.
    Take away those costly turnovers, and the interceptions, and the
    Pats are in this thing right to the end. The single-handed play
    by Howard was enough to tilt the game away from the Patriots.
    
    I was very pleased with the Patriots this year. Earlier in the
    year, I never expected them to get to the SB, or even advance to 
    winning the AFC title. Watching the way the team's defense rose
    to the challenge and improved their play was a pleasant surprise.
    Drew is still learning and will continue to improve his game.
    There's a core of players on the offense, defense, and special teams,
    I'd want to have intact for next year, and there are other parts
    that can be replaced with little impact. Out of the wild chance that
    Parcells decides to stay with the team, this team, if they stay
    healthy, have a very good chance of making it back to the big dance
    next season.
    
     2
    b

    
    >>I would have liked to see a reply when the Packer guy fumbled the
    >>ball, as I thought that was a fumble. But they called him down even
    >>though it did'nt look it. That was the quickest whistle I saw,
    >>considering the refs pretty much ate the whistle the entire game.
    >
    > Can you be more specific about the time of the ballgame you're
    > ferring to on this fumble, I'd like to take another look myself
    > perhaps tonight when I play back portions of the game.
    
    If it was the play I'm thinking of, in the 4th quarter, where you 
    could even hear the whistle being blown, the ball-carrier was 
    definitely down...
    
    glenn
    

      >This Team will never win the BIG one with Bledsoe as the QB.
      >If the Pat's get the Jets 1st round pick, I would trade Bledsoe
      >and draft Payton Manning..... Bledsoe has not developed over the
      >last 4 years. He cannot read defenses, has no sense of pressure
      >in the pocket and can't run to save his life.
    
      The Patriots would not have been in the "Big one" without Bledsoe.
    In 2 of 4 years he has been selected to the Pro Bowl. Is he perfect No. 
    Mark Rypien, Doug williams, Joe Theisman, Jim Plunkett, Hostletter and 
    Earl Morral are all Super Bowl winning QB's.
    

The packers were the better team and made the big plays.  In fact, the big plays
were THE story of this game.  The two bombs and the kick-off return accounted 
for ~230 yards and 21 points.  Howard had two other punts returns for 60 yards.
The special teams killed the Pats (ironic since the special teams have been a 
big part of the previous Pats victories).  I was very disappointed in the Pats
special team play.  Most of Howard's runbacks were basic.  The kick return
was up the gut and he only broke one tackle.  It was way to easy.  

I don't agree with others that the Pats turnovers played a big part in
the game.  The first int was very big.  After that, the rest were either the
equivalent of a punt or after the game was decided.  Although Drew made some
mistakes, he generally played well and I believe the previous noter who was
badmouthing him is way-off base (at least for this game).

I was surprised that the Pats didn't try one single sweep.  The Pack has a
powerful not fast front four and I thought Martin should be able to get around
the end.  It would at least spread out the defense.  Outside of the 3 Td's
drives, the offense didn't move the ball very well and gave the Pack too many
chances.  Green Bay's drive and TD before the half was also huge.

McGinnest and Meggett had surprisingly quite games and the offensive line
gave up after the kick return.  Dotson's sack (through 3 Pat linemen) was
very embarassing.  

Overall,  it was a great season and hopefully a stepping stone for better things.


Alan
 

    Nick Buoniconti (sp)

    It was a great ride ........ and, hopefully, we will get to enjoy some
    more of the same in the next few seasons.  Here are some brief thoughts
    about the game yesterday:
    
    o	the best team did win
    o	the Packers had a better game plan
    o	Bledsoe did not lose the game for the Pats by himself
    o	the special teams play was very disappointing
    o	Parcells can take Meggett with him wherever he goes
    o	why didn't McGinest play ?
    o	Max Lane --- holy cow !!
    
    
    greg

>      The Patriots would not have been in the "Big one" without Bledsoe.
>    In 2 of 4 years he has been selected to the Pro Bowl. Is he perfect No. 
>    Mark Rypien, Doug williams, Joe Theisman, Jim Plunkett, Hostletter and 
>    Earl Morral are all Super Bowl winning QB's.
    
   
                   The TEAM got them there - not one player

   Don't get me wrong, he is an excellent QB *BUT* he does not have the
   tools necessary to win the BIG games. The biggest problem with Bledsoe
   is his inability to run (not just for yardage, from pressure too).

   All the QB's you mentioned are mobile and could read defenses. I think
   Drew has an excellent arm when he throws a bullet. But, he can not throw
   a touch pass. Hopefully he proves me wrong in the future. He is certainly
   not worth the 42 million he receives. I'm sure Kraft is wondering what
   to do about this position - it's got to be on the minds of the entire
   management.



_sbn

    
> I was surprised that the Pats didn't try one single sweep.  The Pack has a
> powerful not fast front four and I thought Martin should be able to get around
> the end.  It would at least spread out the defense. 
    
    Martin's first two carries were on sweeps.  Both were shut down for 
    nothing...
    
    glenn
    

    Earl Morrell mobile? Mark Rypien mobile? 36 year old Jim Plunkett
    mobile?
    Your right that the team got them to the Bowl. Football is a team game.
    But for you to say that the Pats cann't win with Bledsoe when the
    stiffs that I listed won the Super Bowl is ludicrous. This is turning
    out just like the Roger Clemens never won a big game bs that some Red
    Sox fans get into. The interceptions that Bledsoe threw cost them 10
    points. And 7 of those 10 points was on after a 70 yard drive.
    He threw 2 TD's which was for 14 points. The offense scored 21
    points which was 4 or 5 points below their average against the #1
    defense in the NFL. So if the special teams had done there job and the
    defense played better the Pats could have won with Bledsoe.
    The freakin kid is 24 years old. He's been chosen to play in 2 pro
    Bowls in 4 years. Yes he's signed a big contract but that's because
    Orthwein put a stupid clause in his original contract that would have
    allowed him to be a Free Agent in the middle of last year if he chose.
    He would have signed with someone else for that amount.
    He had an average game. 2 of those int's weren't bad throws. He'll get
    better.
    
    mike 
    

    I know I'm dreaming but it WOULD be nice to see the Patriots get the
    Jets first pick and then select Orlando Pace from OSU....then return to
    the SB (Super Bowl XXXII) and see the young Pace put Mr. White on his
    butt a few times.
    
    It won't happen because Commish Tag wants to appease the NY television
    market and it won't happen if the draft pick goes.
    
    I can see it now....Pace knocks Reggie White down and Sean Jones and
    the boys surround him and say, "Reggie....Reggie! Are you okay?!?!"
    
    White opens his eyes and says, "You must be mistaken....I am Batman!"
    
    Maj 

Maybe I should have clarified my description of a sweep.  I was really 
thinking of the sweeps where Bledsoe sharply laterals the ball to Martin 
whose already running in a specified direction.  That play had worked well
in previous games and gives Martin more time/room to make a cutback.

Either way, I think the Pats should have tried to run more.  Martin is a big
play back and we definitely needed some big plays to keep pace with the Pack.

I couldn't agree more with the last note. All season Parcells abandoned the 
run quickly - and sometimes for the most inexplicable reasons. The SB was 
no exception. Martin had 11 carries. 11! And this in a game in which the 
Pats were leading in the second quarter! They stopped the Pack twice after 
they took the lead, and yet when they got the ball back they relied on the 
pass, and Bledsoe had his oft-experienced mid-game blahs. 3 and out. 3 and 
out. The Pats have a Pro Bowl running back, and they chew up the clock with 
passes??? Even when they fell behind on the kick return for a TD, they 
still had more than a quarter to get back in the game. Martin had just run 
for 28 yard TD, but did they use him? To beat Farve, you have to keep him 
off the field, and that mean possession football. Running. Any running back, 
any lineman will tell you, the running game gets better as the game 
progresses, with repeated attempts. A rhythm develops. Parcells never gave 
the running game a chance to develop. And the Packers weren't the Cowboys - 
they COULD be beat on the ground - in that game. Both White and Dodson were 
taking themselves out of the game; they were exhausted in the smokey heat 
of the 2nd half. Martin could've run it down their throats.

This loss wasn' Bledsoe's fault. He played all right (not great, but well 
enough). It was, amazingly enough, Parcells' fault. And I never thought I'd 
say that. Parcells' genius is in pregame strategy and player motivation. 
His weakness is in reacting to game situations. And it cost NE a chance to 
win the SB.

Tom

    re: last 2
    
    I agree that the Pats should have run more, but the Packers special 
    teams and Desmond Howard in particular took away the running game that 
    the Pats had. They had to play catchup most of the game. And you 
    do that with passing. To try to catch up with the running game 
    chews up too much time, unless you're lucky enough to break a couple 
    but the odds are against it. 
                                        
    //BD   

Maybe I should have qualified my statement better. All the QB's you mentioned were 100%
more mobile than Bledsoe (I'm not familiar with Morrell). Marino and Kelley with their
gimpy knees run better than Bledsoe, who's young, big, and strong. They know how to avoid
a rush and scramble to an opening for more yardage or a pass. Bledsoe doesn't !!!

If you had a 4th down and one play, and you called a QB sneak, who would you not want as
your QB ?  Answer: Bledsoe .....  Bledsoe has a GREAT arm but his inability to read and  
lack of mobility will cost this Team.

Just to finish - I was impressed by the job of this Team. They all played their hearts out
and deserved more credit than they got. I hope they have continued sucess in the near
future. And I hope the next coach keeps this Team in contention.


_sbn

    FWIW I enjoyed the game. I was dissappointed the Pats lost of course,
    and what bothers me more is that it was three (3) count em' (3) plays
    that killed them. Other than those 3 breakdowns the Pats were in it.
    Desmond Howard didn't do anything fancy on any of his punt returns or
    kick-off returns, yet he gained major yardage. I never saw the special 
    teams look that way. Why did they continue to kick to him, or why did
    they kick to him at all? On his 99 yard run back it looked to me like
    Adam V. was held for a moment giving Desmond an extra few steps. I'm
    not saying he would've been stopped, but he might have been.
    
    Drew was Drew. The man does make some dumb a$$ throws, but he can 
    thread a needle with the ball as well. The biggest mistake the Pats 
    could make would be to give up on him. You know, a team with 4 turn-
    overs in a game is most likely not going to win, but going back to 
    those 3 big plays by Green Bay, the Pats might have won despite turn-
    ing the ball over 4 times.
    
    I can't say I was thrilled with the play calling either. It was funny 
    when they passed,( I don't know) 13 or 17 times in a row. They did 
    abandon the run too early. 
    
    Oh well! Such are the bummers of life. Hopefully the team will be back
    in the big game soon.
    
    Sean

    
    	The game was lost in the 2nd quarter. After getting burned by a 54
    yrd TD and a couple of good punt returns. They battled back to take a
    14-10 lead and had the momentum. Your doing a good job stopping the run
    with the front 7. Then Al Groh calls for a base defense against 3 WR's
    and bang 81 yrd TD pass. There was no reason for Willie Clay to be
    blitzing or playing close to the line of scrimmage. He should have been
    playing a deep zone in the middle. The Pats never recovered from that
    until they re-grouped at halftime, by that time it was 27-14. Then of
    course they make it 27-21 and the special teams gave up a big play and
    that was it. That was probably the only game all season long in the
    entire league. Where the same team gave up TWO 80+ yrd TD's.
    
    Ron

RE *.102

>>Maybe I should have clarified my description of a sweep.  I was really 
>>thinking of the sweeps where Bledsoe sharply laterals the ball to Martin 
>>whose already running in a specified direction.  That play had worked well

You mean a "pitch out".  Yes, I agree, not only has this play been working
for the Pats, but can neutralize the safety blitz.

RE *.105
>>If you had a 4th down and one play, and you called a QB sneak, who would you
>>not want as your QB ?  Answer: Bledsoe .....

Are you saying that it was the lack of QB sneak that cost the Pats the SB?
I don't think so.  Besides, the ability to throw the ball is much more important
than the sneak.  But on that note, Bledsoe has two things going against him:
1) His height, despite a lot of announces comments - you want to get as low as
you can and push (i.e. watch Bart Star's technique in a replay the most famous
QB sneak ever); 2). the Pats center gets his ass kicked back 2-3 yards on almost
every play.

Now for my take on why the Pats lost.  Mainly special teams.  Yes, Desmond Howard
was great but he also had some huge holes to run through.  Secondly,
was the Pats backfield.  Their blocking was horrendous.
The OL did a pretty good job until after Howard's 99 yard return when they had
a total collapse.  But ability of the blind safety to come in on the blind side
either untouched, or through Megget's pathetic attempts at blocking was a
disaster.  Both Mike Ditka and Parcell's (two QB haters) thinks Drew did ok
with what he was given.

Okay. one last comment, I'm was disappointed by Parcell's decision to put
Troy Brown on the inactive list.

    I just got back from going to the game at 2:00 AM last night following a
    five hour delay due to Delta mechanical problems in Cincinatti.
    
    Other than the actual outome it was an incredible experience. New
    Orleans is the perfect city for the Super Bowl game. Green Bay fans
    greatly outnumbered Pats fans both in the French Quarter and in the
    Stadium. My seats were 23 rows up in the upper deck but on the 40 yard
    line. There were still another 27 rows behind me. You could see
    everything develop quite clearly. The speed advantage the Pats thought
    they had on artificial turf just wasn't there. Pat's DB's were really
    outclassed and outsmarted.
    
    If the Pats get to Super Bowl again I would highly recommend to anyone
    that they go. It was well worth the big bucks I spent for my ticket.
    
    RE. .98 Bledsoe has some flaws but he is definitely a keeper. I have
    read that a lot of scouts don't believe Peyton Manning has the arm
    strength to be a sucessful NFL quarterback.
    
    Lyndon

You're missing my point - I am not blaming Bledsoe for the SB loss. It was not
his fault. He contributed to the loss just like everyone else. My point is,
Bledsoe is not a well rounded QB. He is one dimensional. He is not a leader. Yes
he is an excellent QB *but* he is not going to be one of the GREAT. (IMO)

If Bledsoe had the skills of an Elway (for instance), I think the SB would have
had a different turn-out. Remember - I did not say if Elway was the QB. I like
Bledsoe.... I just don't think he's the answer. (JMO)


_sbn

    
    Steve,  Relax your starting to sound like Larry.......
    
    Bledsoe will get better, now that Parcells is gone!!!
    
    I'd love to have him on the Giants.....do you want Dave Brown?
    
    /Westy
    

    re. 110 
    
    Unless Elway could have covered Rison and Freeman when the Pats were on
    defense and tackled Howard on special teams plays the Pats still would
    have lost.

 	               G  GS  Att Comp   Pct   Yds  YPA Lg   TD Int  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
     4 yr. subtotal   54  54 1528  920  60.0 10527  6.9 87t  54  60  
     4 Yr. subtotal   60  59 2379 1310  55.1 14642  6.2 84t  80  73  
     4 Yr. subtotal   49  45 1580  983  62.2 10412  6.6 76t  70  53  


The above 4 year subtotals come from 3 NFL quarterbacks.  Maybe you can guess
who they are, and maybe you can't.

Folks choose to be hard on Drew Bledsoe, claiming he doesn't have what it takes
to win a championship.  Then neither did Fran Tarkenton, John Elway, Dan Marino,
Vinny Testaverde, Ken Anderson, et al good/great QBs that never "won the big
one".  And Phil Simms, Jim Plunkett, David Woodley, Mark Rypien do have what it
takes.  My point is, the QB can't do it alone.  And while Drew Bledsoe may never
be the next coming of Joe Montana or Steve Young, he does have the tools to be
a Super Bowl winner.  I think I'd best compare him to Jim Plunkett, a less than
mobile QB who, when with the Patriots, got the shit kicked out of him.  When he
went to a different team with better players, and a scheme suited to fit his
skills he benefitted.  The Patriots do have a good, young nucleus of players.

I think it's way too early to give up on Bledsoe.  Not many 4 year QBs get to
the Super Bowl.  It wasn't Drew's accomplishments alone that got the Pats to
the show, and it wasn't his faults along that lost the game.  There are several
teams out there that would love to have a chance at Drew.  

BTW, here are the rest of the records of the QBs to go with those 4 year
sub-totals.

	Ted


Bret Farve

Year Team              G  GS  Att Comp   Pct   Yds  YPA Lg   TD Int  Rate
1991 Atlanta           2   0    5    0   0.0     0  0.0 0     0   2   0.0
1992 Green Bay        15  13  471  302  64.1  3227  6.9 76t  18  13  85.3
1993 Green Bay        16  16  522  318  60.9  3303  6.3 66t  19  24  72.2
1994 Green Bay        16  16  582  363  62.4  3882  6.7 49   33  14  90.7
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     4 Yr. subtotal   49  45 1580  983  62.2 10412  6.6 76t  70  53     ?

1995 Green Bay        16  16  570  359  63.0  4413  7.7 99t  38  13  99.5
1996 Green Bay        16  16  543  325  59.9  3899  7.2 80t  39  13  95.8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     6 NFL Seasons    81  77 2693 1667  61.9 18724  7.0 99t 147  79  88.6

Drew Bledsoe

Year Team              G  GS  Att Comp   Pct   Yds  YPA Lg   TD Int  Rate
1993 New England      13  12  429  214  49.9  2494  5.8 54t  15  15  65.0
1994 New England      16  16  691  400  57.9  4555  6.6 62t  25  27  73.6
1995 New England      15  15  636  323  50.8  3507  5.5 47t  13  16  63.7
1996 New England      16  16  623  373  59.9  4086  6.6 84t  27  15  83.7
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     4 NFL Seasons    60  59 2379 1310  55.1 14642  6.2 84t  80  73  72.0

Troy Aikman

Year Team              G  GS  Att Comp   Pct   Yds  YPA Lg   TD Int  Rate
1989 Dallas           11  11  293  155  52.9  1749  6.0 75t   9  18  55.7
1990 Dallas           15  15  399  226  56.6  2579  6.5 61t  11  18  66.6
1991 Dallas           12  12  363  237  65.3  2754  7.6 61   11  10  86.7
1992 Dallas           16  16  473  302  63.8  3445  7.3 87t  23  14  89.5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     4 yr. subtotals  54  54 1528  920  60.0 10527  6.9 87t  54  60     ?

1993 Dallas           14  14  392  271  69.1  3100  7.9 80t  15   6  99.0
1994 Dallas           14  14  361  233  64.5  2676  7.4 90   13  12  84.9
1995 Dallas           16  16  432  280  64.8  3304  7.6 50   16   7  93.6
1996 Dallas           15  15  465  296  63.7  3126  6.7 61   12  13  80.1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     8 NFL Seasons   113 113 3178 2000  62.9 22733  7.2 90  110  98  83.0

    Did anyone else read Michael Madden's article in todays Globe?
    He pretty well sums up the difference to me between the Pats
    winning it and GB winning it. He describes the 3 key plays
    everyone has mentioned, and adds some subtle insights on these
    three plays not mentioned by others yet.
    Safeties playing up on a WR in a man-to-man, who are not as well
    schooled in the bump&run is not my idea of how a defensive
    coordinator should call the plays in as big a game as this.
    a defensive secondary that can't react to an audible and switch
    from a man-to-man coverage to a zone are going to get burned.
    Finally a Special team that can't execute against a basic
    wedge play as old as the hills, isn't quite ready to play in the
    big one. As well as the Patriots had improved their play over this
    season, there are still subtle holes that need to be plugged, and
    discipline that needs re-enforcing.
    The better team executed when it counted, and the lesser team didn't
    execute when it counted. 
    Having said all that, I'm still encouraged by the play of the Patriots
    this year, and with the subtle addition & changes of some personel,
    I think this team can improve their competitiveness, and ability
    to execute on a higher level in future years.
    The real question is, will they have the coaching staff to meet
    these demands next year?
    
    
     2
    b

     couple of major fundamental mistakes by the Pats could have changed 
     the game:
        
        1. The defensive backs got stuck with their heads up their @#$#% on
           those two GB pass plays resulted in td's. NEVER EVER let the 
           reciever get behind you. I can see once, but twice? NEVER! This 
           is blown coverage pure and simple.
        
                            AND.....
        
        2. What ever you do make sure you kick it right to the leading kick 
           returner in the NFL!! GEESH! This is a mental breakdown pure and 
           simple. Don't kick it away from him or squibb it or anything like 
           that. Notice GB kicked it away from Megget whenever possible. 
    
    
    
    //BD
     
                 

    
    RE .115 
           
    > 2. What ever you do make sure you kick it right to the leading kick 
    > returner in the NFL!! GEESH! This is a mental breakdown pure and 
    > simple. Don't kick it away from him or squibb it or anything like 
    > that. Notice GB kicked it away from Megget whenever possible. 
    
    Actually they did kick it away from Howard but he went after it in the
    corners, so if Tupa was in a situation where he could'nt reach the 
    endzone then it did no good.
    
    But what I could'nt understand was why was'nt Vinateri kicking deep
    into the endzone on the kickoffs. As I remember throughout the season
    he had beeen able to do this with ease. So why could'nt he do it in a
    domed stadium? I would have rather made Green Bay start from thier own
    20 rather than give Howard a chance to return it. This is really the
    about the only thing that bothered me. 
     
              			Sean
    

    	The Pats just bit it after the run back. I also hope you all
    realize how much of a jerk big Biil is, it's obvious he was planning on
    leaving them before the S.B. I would say he wasn't focused completly on
    the game.

Re *.116

>>    Actually they did kick it away from Howard but he went after it in the
>>    corners, so if Tupa was in a situation where he could'nt reach the
>>    endzone then it did no good.

According to Vinateri, they did kick it to Howard to keep it away from
Beebe.  Although, it's possible that Don would have also run the kick back.
No doubt, that the Pats packed it after that.

    >   The Pats just bit it after the run back. I also hope you all
    >realize how much of a jerk big Biil is, it's obvious he was planning on
    >leaving them before the S.B. I would say he wasn't focused completly on
    >the game.
    
    Could you possibly entertain the thought, that just perhaps he made
    up his mind well before the Pats even made the playoffs? That way
    he could then focus on his tasks of getting the team as far into
    the playoffs and to the SB as possible.
    Gee, give a person a little credit for just maybe having the
    forethought to being able to make a decision and then being able
    to re-focus back on another task at hand. 
    I give Parcells a whole lot more credit, for having integrity
    enough to be able to make a dcision, set it aside and then focus
    on concentrating on getting a team into post season play.
    Your comment comes off as immature. 
    
     2
    b

    
    RE .119
    
    I agree. If it was'nt for Parcells you can bet that this team would'nt
    be in the super Bowl this year.
    
    And as far as Parcells being the "bad guy" crap is unfair. Parcells
    came into this team on a condition he would have total control, which
    was all of a sudden taken away from him this year with no warning. So 
    I can't blame Parcells for being mad about it. By right he probably
    could have left before the year even started because the conditions of
    his contract had been broken, but probably decided to stay and finish 
    the year for his players and fans. And he also accomplished what he set
    out to do, make the team competive to get to the Super Bowl. Kraft is
    the one who changed the rules, and although its his right to run the
    team as he sees fit, he must live with the consequences of breaking
    Parcells contract and terms of it.
    
    And it seems a trend nowadays to give total control to coaches as Ditka
    just got this from New Orleans and Bobby Ross got it from Detriot. The
    Jets will give it to Parcells considering he took over a dismal team
    and within four years got it to the Superbowl.
    
    Personally whether or not Parcells goes I'll miss him as I consider him
    putting together the most competive and exciting teams New England 
    has ever had. And as far as I'm concerned Kraft (who I like too) is the 
    person who decided he did'nt want Parcells to have total control (which 
    was in Parcells contract), and let him leave because of it. 
    
    It's easy to point the finger at Parcells because he's probably leaving, 
    but Kraft knew what he had to do to make him stay, but he won't give him
    total control, which was originally in his contract anyway. So Kraft 
    must not want Parcells that bad.
    
    As far as what the media says you can bet they are going to trash
    Parcells anyway as both parties mostly never got along. The Globe
    writers were always badmouthing the Pats and will always hop on thier
    bandwagon when they are winning. Personally I think they have bigger
    egos than Parcells, and if you've ever seen them on thier talk shows
    they'd give you the impression they'd know how to build a team better
    and put a game plan together better than Parcells. They are kind of 
    humourous in a way. 
    
    Thats my take on Parcell's departure.
    
    				Sean
    
    

    re. 120
    
    According to the news reports I heard Ditka did not get total control
    with the Saints and in fact was quoted as saying that at this stage in
    his life it was not important to his ego to have total control

  Hi, 

    Just some thoughts from a lifelong Packer fan.

    Its kind of silly for people to say "If you take away the three
    big plays..."  That is taking away too much!  How about if the
    Pack gets back the other play where Rison was wide open and 
    Favre threw a terrible pass???  If you take away the three plays,
    you are giving the Packers three drives all over again.  The Rison
    TD was on 2nd and 10.  The Freeman one was 1 and 10.  The kickoff
    of course was even before a set of downs.  What would they have
    done if you have the drives over again?  Perhaps had at least one
    big play?  To talk about removing three drives when teams typically
    get about 10 all game is ludicrous.

    I think the reason the Pack got those long passing TD's is because 
    they took what the Pats defense gave.  I think the Pats primarily 
    were emphasizing stopping the short part of the field - both run
    and pass.  How else to explain THREE times a WR was wide open deep???

    My view of the game was that the Packers offense got into its
    full rhythm with the last TD drive of the 1st half.  If you have a
    tape of the game, look at that drive and their first drive in the
    2nd half.  My view is that if the Pack doesn't do that absurd 4th
    and 1 run wide right and just QB sneaks it, the game is very likely
    OVER barely into the 2nd half (at 30-13 or 34-13).

    Instead, even after that fine drive, the Pack didn't score and
    lost field position.  Factor in a real nice corner blitz by the Patriots
    and the Desmond Howard KR, and the Pack's offense in the 2nd half
    really either blew it or didn't need to flex all its muscle.  Recall
    also Chmura's 3rd and 7 miss of a 10 yard pass right in his hands.

    It works both ways.  Take back a play or two and the Pats have a chance
    to win.  Take back the 4th and 1 and the Pack blows the Pats out.  So,
    it evens out and the spread is probably right where it belonged - 14
    points.

    In summary, the Packers are pretty much more talented and a lot more
    composed.  They did it when they needed to all year long.  Special
    teams gets the runback TD, the offense gets the two point conversion,
    and White gets two sacks.  Lights out.

    The Patriots can hold their heads high.  I think Denver was the better
    team, but I also think that if the whole coaching problem doesn't 
    hurt them too much, they stand a good chance of competing to represent
    the AFC in the SB for the next five years.  They are very talented.
    They didn't blow it in the Super Bowl.  They simply lost to the better
    team.

    Just like Green Bay did to Dallas oh so many times in the past.

    Just hope this game served as a natural progression for the Patriots.

						Tony

     Correct me if I'm wrong. Did Parcell's and Kraft have any problems
    as far as picking personnel before this year. I believe Parcells caused
    his own problem and Kraft reacted to it. Parcell's wants out of his
    contract because he doesn't have the fire for coaching more than this
    one more year. If I'm Kraft I now decide that there is a need to 
    put a structure in place to carry this franchise into the future. He 
    makes the decision and brings in Grier and someone else to work
    contracts. Parcell's basically made himself a lame duck. Kraft uses
    the only tools that will be available to him in the future since he
    won't have Bill anymore. 
    
     All the data and the ratings say take Terry Glenn. Tuna wants someone
    different who when he leaves will be left to the Pat's. Kraft figures
    next year we will be doing it on our own with a new coach so we might as 
    well start now. I don't blame Kraft for starting to build the
    organization and not rely on one man.. Bill, was worth every penny he 
    was paid. He did the job and then some! Did he let his ego get in his
    way? Doesn't he always. As far as I'm concerned he was going to jump
    ship and Kraft figured the organization had to start doing the
    navigation in the front office without him.
     
     Regards
    
     Don,
    

The following extracted from the NFL News and Notes:

RISON HAS CONTRACT TERMINATED BY PACKERS

After being signed as a replacement for wide receiver Robert
Brooks last Nov. 19 -- and scoring the first touchdown in the
Super Bowl -- Andre Rison has his contract terminated Tuesday by
the Green Bay Packers. "The feeling here is that Andre is a
starter," said Packers executive vice president/general manager
Ron Wolf. "And with the situation we presently are in, he
wouldn't be a starter. So we feel it is in the best interests of
both parties to terminate the association at this time." ......

    
    I think the Cowboys are looking at him as the receiver opposite Irvin.
    
    					Sean