Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    No, didn't hear that one. But, know the issues. And most are also civil
    rights of the custodial parent. Cases where one mum went for an over
    seas job too. Life...                                   

    
    George,
    
    What I also heard in the discussion was that some states are actually 
    debating the "moving away" issue in the state legislature.
    This is encouraging! 
    
                                                              Bill
     
                              
    
      

    But... it will be chalanged and defeated because of the civil rights
    issue. There is a case now that happened in Cal of a woman and a child
    who will attend Harvard this fall. And the father of the child
    objecting to the move. It had been turned down at the State fed court. 

    
    Until society recognizes that it is the civil right of the _child_ to
    have both parents envolved in their lives, this will continue.  Right
    now the court only thinks in $$$---"If it 'improve' the life fo the 
    child".  
    
    fred();

Can anyone figure out how to get a transcript?  Someone that has time to
surf the web and find it?

    
    transcripts:
    
    You have to go talk to the court reporter.  They usually carge anywhere
    between $1.50 to $5.00 per page and they have _wide_ margains and
    double spacing.
    
    fred();

    Transcripts/court????  This was an NPR show.

    
    It was an NPR program that aired a discussion about custodial parents
    moving away with children.
    It leaves children without their dad most of the time.  A form of 
    child abuse by the way!
    
    What I found encouraging is that the issue is finally being debated at
    the state level of our political process.  
    
    I guess what I need to know is how to contact for NPR a transcript of the 
    discussion.   I'll listen to NPR for their address.
    
     ,                          Bill  

The program is available in RealAudio at
http://www.realaudio.com/contentp/npr/nc7M07.html

  Elaine Korry looks at recent decisions in so-called "move away" 
  cases: when a divorced parent with child custody wants to move away 
  from the non-custodial parent. Yesterday, a California court ruled 
  in favor of a mother who wanted to leave the state to pursue an 
  education at Harvard. (5:30)


I am baffled by the court's position that separating a child from its
non-custodial parent was, in and of itself, not detrimental to the
child.

-stephen

    A text transcript?Some of us don't have real audio.

    Call the local station and ask about the NPR transcript. Other than
    that, fred right with the cost of a Real Court transcript. Its
    expencive and can cost in excess of a couple of grand to get on from
    our beloved court system. 
    
    
    
    

    
    
    Re:9
    
    Maybe we should take children from the judge who made the decision
    and move them across the country and see how  s/he likes it!
    
                                                   Bill

    ....or support your local fathers united groups... 

From http://www.npr.org/inside/transcripts/

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Transcripts $11.95, plus $2.95 S&H=$14.90 

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subject/topic. 

All Things Considered, 7 May 1997, 
Segment [16.]  [DIVORCE TRAVEL] -- by Elaine Korry

-stephen

    
    Thanks Stephen!  I will contact NPR.
    
                                         Bill

    My divorce decree states that neither parent shall move more than 50
    miles away from our place of domicile at the time of divorce without
    the other parent's consent, until the time of emancipation - which in
    our case is the next 18-20 years! (he's only 2 1/2)  We have both 
    already moved 10-20 miles away from that location, in opposite directions 
    of each other.
    
    The decree also states that we will equally share in driving for
    visitation.
    
    I believe this is fair.  I cannot see taking a child away from the
    NCP and interrupting his visits with his father, or the fathers with
    his son.  I don't believe either of us has any business looking for
    jobs or homes that would be outside of this radius, knowing we have a 
    son who deserves to be with both parents.  I feel this is just part of
    our responsibility as his parents.

    
    Re: 16
    
    Thats the responsible approach.. You're probably both mature
    responsible people.  Hopefully your behavior will become more
    common in the future for the restructured family!!
    I think thirty miles may be a better than fifty to see your 
    children during the week. You can help with homework, talk over
    issues and other daily problems that arise.
    If you can't see your children during the week then you become an
    alternative weekend dad which means four days p/m only. Not enough
    time to see your children. That is my case.
    Worst case is of course across the country where you only see your
    children during the summer months or during school vacation.
    What a lousy deal for dad and his children.
    Didn't mean to ramble!     
                                         Bill

RE: .16

I 2nd what .17 says ... this works IFF:

1. The decree states something at all (which in many cases it doesn't)
2. The custodial parent actually wants the NCP to be able to see
   the children (as opposed to being "just a paycheck").


 .... Don't we all wish that the world was "reasonable" ......

    re .18, I suppose you're right, I realize the world isn't all
    'reasonable' and that many divorced parents are not amicable at all.
      
    I come from a divorced family, and refuse to put my son through what my
    parents put us through, in regards to visiting, badmouthing the other
    parent, etc.   We had to see through our own emotions and realize what
    was the best thing for our son.  He's only 2 1/2 and already asks for
    daddy quite often.  He sees him one weekday, and one weekend day, 
    overnight on weekends whenever dad can fit it in, and sometimes an 
    additional weekday.  My ex is an ex for reasons that can't be changed,
    but he'll always be my sons father and I'll encourage that for the rest
    of his life!
    
    

    My divorce sounds similar to -1.  We don't have it in our decree about
    moving or holidays or anything like that, just a basic order about 1
    weeknight visit and every other weekend.  I always extend the offer for
    him to keep the girls (8 + 10) the extra day if his weekend is a long
    weekend.  His job doesn't always permit it, but when he can he does. 
    We have never had a battle about holidays or distance.  I would never
    dream of moving so far that it would make it difficult for my x to see
    our children.  We also have never changed weekends, if something comes
    up (like mother's day was on his weekend, he just brought them back to
    me early; father's day falls on my weekend and he'll be able to take
    them whatever time is convienent for him).  This allows the girls to
    know exactly where they will be any given weekend and can make there
    one plans with their friends.
    
    Roberta

    
    Roberta,
    
    Nice to hear those good stories about parents who put the childrens
    interest first.
    
                                      Bill

    Hi all,
      Just saw this note and couldn't resist.  What does one do with the
    anger and confusion of an ex-wife disappearing off the face of the
    earth?  My guy, has this situation.  Been the ugliest story I have ever
    heard of.  His ex has just packed up and gone taking his 8 year old son
    away.  The courts are useless (as I'm sure you are all aware of!) and
    as far as they are concerned, keep that child support coming!  But
    where, I ask, is it going?  She didn't even leave a change of address.
    It's a nightmare.  Anybody else gone through this?  I would love to
    hear from you.
    
    n
    
    

>    The courts are useless (as I'm sure you are all aware of!) and
>    as far as they are concerned, keep that child support coming!  But
>    where, I ask, is it going?  She didn't even leave a change of address.
    
    I guess if you stop the payments, you'll find out where they will 
    be going, and fast.  And if you don't, save the money for a later
    date.
    
    One way to resolve things is to place the onus on the other guy to
    take an action.  To me it seems the courts (I include the lawyers 
    here) don't want to rock the boat; rather just maintain their cut of
    the action.  If you don't make the payments the courts can be just 
    inefficient as if you do.  I'd stand up to the court (but this is 
    not legal advice, obviously).
    
    The emotional part of this, the missing child, well, God bless...
    
    glenn
    

    Alan has gone into Cambridge Court (twice now) and he is trying to
    "reduce" the support payment and also hopefully, to get her attention. 
    He also requested that the payments go directly to the court.... 
    what a mess.  It is just so sad as to what his 8 year is now thinking
    about his dad.  He is from England which just adds to the confusion at
    this point.  She on the other hand I believe thinks that she is above
    the law.  I have been divorced and I know what it is like to have a
    mature relationship with the ex.  Why don't people put their kids
    first?  
    
    nancy

    

    I'm confused (so what else is new).  If he doesn't know where they
    are, then how does the child support get to her?  If he cut's off 
    support, then I'd strongly recommend putting the money in some 
    savings or escrow account.  She's going to want it sooner or later.
    If not, then give it to the kids for college.

    I'm a bit nastier than most.  If he has jurisdiction where he is at,
    then file for change of custody.  There are ways of doing that when the
    other party isn't around to serve papers on.  If they don't show up 
    for court, he gets custody (on paper anyway).  File also for Contempt
    for violating the children's visitation rights.  Then he can file
    kidnaping charges under the "Anti parental kidnaping act" and have
    the FBI go find her (in theory at least, assuming she is still in
    the country).

    fred();

    Nancy,
    
    To try and answer your question - whatever my ex did she always
    justified it as being in my childs best interests. It seems some people
    have the ability to see what they want to see.
    
    I also don't understand the situation. There are all the obvious things 
    - where does the money go, where are the cancelled checks cashed, can you 
    communicate through her lawyer, have you got an investigator, have you 
    got a lawyer, do you have a visitation order (is this a contempt or 
    parental kidnapping case) etc. It isn't easy in MA - the justice system 
    isn't just.
    
    While the money may be the easy way to get her attention, I suggest
    that you don't make any changes because it will cloud the issue when
    you get in front of the judge. Fred's got the right approach - file for 
    custody. You have to demonstrate that you made a very serious attempt to 
    find her. My guess is that she'll turn up. By the way - you must do this 
    now. If she is out of state she may try to change the juristiction.
    
    Now the other aspect - I hope he is a U.S. citizen, if not what type of 
    visa does he have, and what is the childs status in this country. 
    
    Martin

    This all just blows my mind......how do people get involved/have
    children with someone who can turn so totally against them?
    
    My X and I had a rocky relationship and I am the one who left, and he
    was very angry and did some really stupid things, but NOT at the
    expense of the kids.
    
    My SO and his X drive me absolutely insane, she is one who does
    everything under the pretext of it "being int he best interest of
    the child....."No Santa can not come to your house because that would
    confuse and upset the child.  If yu tell him that Santa came to your
    house I will tel him you are a liar....do you want MY son to know you
    are a liar?"  Because my SO wants to protect his son he'll will let
    alot of things go to keep the mother happy so that she doesn't mess
    with the son's head.  But I don't think that's right either.
    
    He tells me that her turn will come, but in the mean time he loses out
    on so much time with his son.
    
    Roberta

    
    >  This all just blows my mind......how do people get involved/have
    >    children with someone who can turn so totally against them?

    All I can say is the woman who divorced me was not the woman I married.
    People do change, and it's not always for the better.  Some people 
    have characteristics that even they don't know the have sometimes.
    I think it was Henry Kissenger that said, "Power is the ultimate
    aphrodisiac".  Kind of the same way whole countries can go bunkers
    and kill off whole other countries or races.  The Nazis, too, claimed
    they were doing it "for the good of the people", and maybe they, too,
    were able to lie themselves into believing it.

    In other words, in spite of the political philosophy of some groups,
    there really are some just plain bad people.  God help you if you 
    have kids with one of them.

    fred();

    re. 27   There is nothing worse than the hypocritical "ex" (male or
    female) who uses the pretext they are concerned for "the best interest 
    of the child(ren)" as a weapon to accomplish what they want.
    
    When adults don't agree, it should stay between the adults.  No one, 
    mother or father has the right to bring the children into it.
    
    My "ex" had 3 children, his "ex" was forever saying inappropriate
    things to the kids, like "daddy doesn't like Kevin" or "Joyce doesn't 
    like mommy".  
    
    Whether either of those statements were true or not - that is *not* 
    something you tell the children.  No matter what I may have thought 
    of her, she was their mother and they never heard a negative word 
    about her from me...
    
    They're also usually the first to try and cover their hypocracy with 
    "you're not a mother, so you wouldn't understand"
    
    re. 28  So very true, often the person you married is not the same
    person when you divorce...
    
    Joyce

    Hi,
      Sorry I haven't been in here, but work is busy.  To try and answer
    some of the questions is hard.  I'm totally clueless as to try to
    understand the minds of the court.  It's like, "Hey mister, do you
    think that yours is the only case in this court?  Alan's response is,
    THERE is a Child involved here....  The court has also told him that it
    is not THEIR job to locate her.  He does have a couple of lawyers on
    this and is also having someone do an investigation.... so far, nada.
    
    As of right now, we are not sure as to where the child support payments
    are going... they are taken right out of his check every week.  He had
    to go into court to request that the payments be made directly to the
    court.  He is also trying to get the payments reduced... hopefully to
    get her attention.  He did contact the post office and this wonderful,
    responsible "woman" did not even leave a forwarding address for her
    mail.  I do believe he has also filed for change of custody.  As of
    this time, we don't even know if she is still in the country.  
    
    As for the question of whether or not is he a U.S. Citizen.  No.  This
    even adds more oil on the fire.  He is in the midst of renewing his
    imigration card, BUT since he doesn't have a clue as to where is son
    is (address is required) it is just making the situation more complicated.
    He still doesn't have a court date for any of the above, so it just
    goes on and on.....
    
    nancy

    Nancy,
    
    There is no way in this life that a U.S. judge will ever give custody of 
    an American child to an alien parent. That may not be the law, but it's 
    reality. 
    
    Right now I would be more concerned about the INS and he should get an 
    INS lawyer. You can't win custody if you are not around and unless his
    ex is stupid that will have occured to her. 
    
    You can get names from the bar association but I suggest Eric Levine (617) 
    423-1191.  
    
    Martin
    
    
    
    
    

    re: 419.31
    
    SO TRUE!  Most "American" men don't stand a chance getting their
    children, so we know the score.  He has hired a imigration lawyer.  We
    are planning on going to England in July so it is definetly in the
    works!  So far, still no word from the Cambridge court....  Finally,
    though, we have located her sister who lives in California.... now we
    just need a convincing story to hopefully get some information out of
    her, but I'm not holding my breath.....  
    
    nancy
    

    Nancy,
    
    One of the things that weighed heavily in my favor at the Federal Court 
    was that I was supporting my child, and one of the things that weighed 
    heavily in the Probate Court was that I was not about to leave the country. 
    
    It took me 2 years, most of my money (even though I did 90 percent of it 
    myself), 3 types of court (lots of accusations), and endless 
    disappointments to finally get there. Worth it. 
    
    Martin

    In another month, I will be out the other side of my divorce. Finally.
    The bankruptcy side.. After the divorce, bankruptcy, chapter 13. Of the
    100% who enter, 10% make it. It is going to be a very sunny day, and a
    very sunny summer for me. It was worth it, I have custody, my daughter
    is safe, has her own bedroom, her own toybox, two house cats, and a dad
    who loves her allot. 
    
    Signed
    Mr. Mom
    

    
    RE:34
    
    Congrats  George,
    
    Seeing and caring for our children is more important then anything else
    in my opinion!
    
                                                    Bill