Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    Whats more, the money gets double taxed.   You pay taxes on the
    full amount, she has to declare the money as income, then she
    can only take the "standard" deduction on that income ($1200 per
    child if I remember right), and has to pay taxes (again) on
    everything over the standard deduction.

    But Sen. Kennedy?  Mr. NOW?  Talk about a waste of time.

    fred();

    re .1
    
    This is news to me, I thought that received child support was *not*
    considered taxable income.
    

    Child support Double Taxed????  When my husband and I divorced, I was
    told by my lawer child support IS NOT taxable income???  Therefore, I
    have never claimed it as income on my taxes,nor does my ex get to
    deduct on his taxes as he would if it were alimony payments...  Hence
    only paying taxes one time.... this is is Mass.
    
    Wendy
    

    Glad to hear that!!  I thought for a moment I was in deep Sh** with the
    IRS not what I need....
    
    Wendy

	  Child support is not taxable income to the recipient.  Alimony,
     on the other hand, is taxable income to the recipient -- and
     deductable to the payer even if the payer does not itemize.

				     Brian

    
    OOPS.  May have been wrong on that one.  A couple ways I *know* you 
    get double taxed on "child support", though.  I found these out from
    personal experience.

    1)If you apply for food stamps, child support is counted as income,
      but is not deducted if you are paying child support.

    2)In applying for grants/assistance for college tuition (can't
      remember just what it is called right now) child support is counted
      as income but not deducted as an expense.

    fred();

    Hi there. I was not talking about child support, taxation of child
    support, exemptions, alimony, but the fedreal filling status of
    non-custodial parents. To summarize:
    
    
    child support payments: 
    
    		not taxable by the party receiving it (pay
    		it to ex, and it is tax free to her, and taxable tome)
    
    Alimony:
    
    		Taxable to recipient, and a deduction from income to the 
    		payor (ususally the ex-husband)
    
    	
    Exemptions	
    
    		Yes, the divorce decree can give you such exemption,
    		and ex has to fill out form 2XXX (can't remember which)
    
    
    
    
    BUT, in spite of above (getting the exemption), and paying child
    support, I still cannot file as head of household, which puts me 
    in a more expensive tax table???
    
    All of you guys, out there, I am sure have been thru this and should
    should be as PXXXXX off as I am...please write to your senator...thanks
    
    Denis
    

    I don't get it, aren't there two 'households' here? She, or her spouse
    is the head of hers, and you or your spouse are the head of yours? I
    would assume your not both still living in the same house of course!
    
    Sharon

    Sharon, you got it!!!!
    
    
    There are two households:
    
    
    	#1 : moi, no kids, but paying child support to household #2,
    		and still getting one exemption. As a single guy, I CANNOT
    		claim "head of household" status although I pay way more 	
    		than 50% of cost of my children. On top of this, of course
    		I pay taxes on child support income.
    
    	#2 household: Ex-wife and children.
    		she gets my child support payments-TAX FREE, one of our
    		two exemptions (I get one), but having the children with 
    		her, is entitled to "Head of Household" filing status,
    		A BIG TAX BREAK that I think I should get since I'm paying
    		most of the children's bills....
    
    
    		I am surprised about the silence of guys (and maybe a few 
    		women) in similar situation: it stinks, it's unfair....
    		Men, get SXXXX by everyone, Mass judges, lawyers, and as 
    		if it is not enough the FEDS!!!! Wake up guys!
    
    
    Regards
    
    Denis

    Dennis,
    
    I know where you can get some deals on some used postal uniforms.:) The
    state judicial system and its governing party doesnt want to hear us.
    They have their paid for lobbiest who are part of N.O.W. And they don't
    care.....

 One of the IRS stipulations for filing as Head of Houshold is that you
 must have custody of your child for greater than 50% of the time ie > 6
 months of the year. You also have to pay more than 50% of the childs
 expenses for that year. So if you want to claim Head of Houshold then
 you'll need to establish at least 50/50 physical custody.

 Neil...

        re .13

    That is correct.  Last year I had to dig up all the court papers
    and expenses on the kids to show the IRS I was entitled to the
    Head of Household and deductions.  Apparently she had kept claiming
    them even after I got custody.  Never heard what they did to her
    after I showed them I was the one entitled to the deductions.

    fred();

    ref .33
    
    I understand the IRS qualifications for head of household status 
    	(50% or more expenses etc....) I just wonder you single parents
    	dont get more than annoyed by the followng:
    
     		you are paying more than 1/2 of the bills, EVEN IF CHILDREN 
    			DONT LIVE WITH YOU,
    		leads to : 1) your ex getting the tax break of "head of 
    					household" only because she/he has the 
    					children
    
    			    2) you dont get the tax break but you pay the
    					bills
    
    
    		are you folks awake or you make so much money that this
    				issue is immaterial?
    
    
    
    			 

    If you pay more than 50% in support of the children, and they don't
    live with you, you cannot claim head of household. Also because you do
    pay the 50% or more the custodial parent also cannot claim head of
    household. Catch 22. "Nobody gets to claim it". This was told to me
    directly by the IRS.

Reply .16

 Well using the child support guidelines of most states child support does not
 cover 100% of the childrens expenses especially if the CP is employed. In
 fact it probably doesn't even equate to half if the NCP doesn't pay medical.
 The problem arises in the fact that the Custodial Parent can include a portion
 of rent/household/car expenses in their determination of what their custodial
 expenses amount to and if this is at least twice as much as what the the NCP
 pays in support then viola they can justify claiming Head of Household. However
 the IRS doesn't even ask for a dollar figure so in most cases just being a
 Single Custodial Parent and claiming children as dependants is reason in itself
 to claim Head of Household with no fear of audit.

 In my case I have 50/50 joint physical custody of two children but only claim 1
 ( Court Ordered ) as a dependant on my tax returns. I also pay child support as
 well so therefore I claim Head of Houshold since I obviously pay for more
 than 50% of our childrens expenses. Although I'm sure my ex claims Head of
 Household as well since she claims our 2nd child as a dependant. So it's up to
 the IRS to decide what to do and since child support is not accountable by
 either CP or NCP to the IRS they have no idea what she's getting and apparently
 don't care.

 Neil....

    
    being seperated can i fill out my taxes using the children with out
    telling my X about it hoping she doesn't use them? I have 4 children
    and that's quite a bit of deducting that i could sure use at tax time.
    is this all kosher? and if so how could i find my children S.S. numbers
    without asking the X

    
    re .18

    I don't think that would be a good idea.  After I got custody of my
    kids I started taking them as deductions.  Last year I got a notice
    from the IRS saying I was not entitled to take them as deductions that
    first year (don't know how they determined that, but they did).  

    I was able to dig up the court papers and expenses to show I was 
    entitled, but I was looking at paying the tax, plus penalties, plus
    some hefty interest if I hadn't.

    fred()

 Reply.16

 If you do not have greater than 50% custody and have not had your children
 living with you for greater than 6 months the only legal way of declaring
 them as dependants is if you get your wifes consent and she fill out the
 appropriate form stating that she will not be declaring them. However if you
 have been seperated less than 6 months you should be able to file maried
 seperate and declare the children. Just make sure that she hasn't beat you to
 it. Actually I think the law states that the higher payed spouse gets the
 deduction when filing married seperate. Call the IRS if you want to make sure.

 Neil....

    to 332.18
    
    	You could claim you children as dependents with the possible 
    	consequences:
    		1-you get lucky and the IRS does not find out.
    		2-you negociate a sepatation agreement w/ ex SPECIFICALLY
    			granting you the exemptions (she's ll have to 
    			file a special form 2084, I believe).
    			During negociation of separation agreement
    			I would hold like Heck on this one with the 
    			following argument: "I pay child support, and 
    			pay taxes on child support, while losing my 
    			HEAD OF HOUSEHOLD filing status" which you will
    			discover, if youhave not yet, will cost you 
    			a big bundle.
    		3-you file with the exemptions, while ex does same, 
    			and IRS cross checks your SSN from you ex's return
    			and you're caught....dont know the consequences...
    
    
    		Please call your congressman (or better write) and ask
    			him/her to file legislation to allow child support
    			payers to file as head of household just as their
    			do.
    
    			BTW, I talked to my Congressman's (Mean from
    			lowell) legislative aide in Washington, and she
    			quickly turned the conversation into a gender
    			issue: regardless or how much money a guy pays in
    			child support, the ex-wife is the one who deserves
    			the "head of household" file status , not
    			ex-hubby...you should have heard the anti-men
    			delivery of this woman...that why, we guys have to 
    			be active.....I dont see that in any of the
    			responses posted in 332....maybe this issue does
    			not hurt yoiu guys enough...
    
    			
    
    		Dont have any idea how you find out your kids' SSN's. A 
    		sneaky way would be to ask ex for copy of last year tax
    		records for you own tax records (would find your kids
    		SSN's).
    	 
    

    Or ask for the numbers when your volly-ing your interogs.

    
    
    
    	thanks guys for all the help, it's time to gather my troops
    	in preperation of battle, isn't life just ducky. I guess it could
    	be worse. I could be out of work and not making a penny and when
    	your not making a penny then they can't get water from a stone.
        anyone have any books on how to survive in the wilderness? i think
    	i'm going to get lost in the rockies for about 40ty years

    re. SSN's
    When I got custody, I had to get a duplicate copy of the birth 
    certificate (official copy with the notary stamp), and (If I  remember
    right) one other form of id.  Seems like I used medical card.  Then
    take that  to the SS office and apply for a lost/duplicate card.  Call
    local  SS office for details.  SS office should be able to tell you the 
    number, but cards will be mailed later.  

    Getting duplicate birth certificates was harder and longer.  Each
    state is different.  Start by calling County Clerk offices in county
    where they were born.  Many states you have to go through some 
    state agency.  They send you some forms that have to be filled
    out plus a fee to be paid, then they mail you the duplicates.

    (Theex said they were "lost".  Although getting duplicates is a pain, 
    it's easier than taking her back to court, and even then they may 
    still be "lost").

    fred();

    Welp... yha can get eaten by a bear, a mux, or worse!! A jackalope!
    Terrible things out there in them woods! Too bad you cannot be a
    survior of a plane crash.... Like one of those that the FAA cannot find
    a survior of... FAA stands for Found Another Arm/Ankle/etc. 

    In either case. It is always best to fight like hell in court... Its
    always best to go down from a standing position, then kneeling... And
    when you stand up for what little rights you have. You are certain to
    gain respect, honor, and dignaty(sp) that you deserve.....

    Call the town hall for the town your kids were born in.
    My son was born in 1987 and I got this info easily.  In 
    some cases you can get it over the phone.  Last I checked, 
    there was no charge. 
    
    /Sam