Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    The minute the JP says,"Your now Man and Wife". His disposible income 
    increases because the two of you have two jobs. And this means to the
    ex..... MORE CHILD SUPPORT. 
    
    The answer, reguardless of what you wish to argue, its the bottom line.
    She, his ex, is entitled to more. And if he is paying
    alimony/maintence.... Well suprise! Suprise! She is entitled to more of
    that too. Hence, unless the laws of this Great Land change, or there is
    a change in custody, or there is a sudden death with the ex. Your
    income is his and hers. :)
    
    

    re .0
    
>      Under what (if any) circumstances might our combined income
>      following our marriage become vulnerable to increasing his child
>      support payments?
    
    Most states use a set schedule that uses the gross income of the
    _parents_.  The spouse of the parent is supposedly left out of the
    algorighm.  However, there is a thing called gifts, etc that can
    be counted as income if those gifts will affect the parents disposable
    income.  Depends on how the judge feels about whether it is fair or
    not.  Therefore the judge can say that since you are helping pay the 
    rent, etc, then he is able to pay more "Child Support".
    
>    *       If any of the parties (i.e., my fiance, his ex, me):
    
>            -       lose a job and deplete unemployment funds
    
    If voluntary, CS is based on "potential erarnings".  That is no
    change in support if you quit your job.  If involuntary, ie laid off,
    then support should change due to lower income.
    
>            -       take a lesser-paying job in order to work at all
    
    Again depends on whether voluntary or involuntary.
    
>            -       inherit $$$ or real estate, etc.
    
    Change in disposable income,  change in child support.
    
>            -       win Publisher's Clearing House (or whatever)
    
    Change in disposable income, change in child support.  
    
    Hope this helps.
    fred();

       If all of this is happening in NH -

       I have a copy of that section of the child support laws for NH
       someplace at home.  I'll try to find the reference number so you
       can look it up.  As I remember the two pages worth of text, it
       basically says that the court can consider spouse's income of
       the obligated party when determining child support amounts.


       Richard

    Richard, 
    
    Remember the guideline amounts change, (increase) every year.
    
    Geo
    
    

       In NH the section on child support guidelines that I have is
       RSA 458-C:1 through 458-C:5  These sections say under what
       conditions you raise, or lower the amount owed, and what the
       court can consider to be "gross income".

       Brace yourself before you read it.  When you do, you may be
       interested in RSA 458-C:1, under principles where it says
       something like -
           the children in the NCP's initial family are entitled
           to a standard of living equal to that of subsequent
           families.
       
       and a later section that says something like -
	   income of either parent's current spouse is not
	   considered except ... if the parent ... is voluntarily
           unemployed or underemployed [plus long list of other
	   stuff].


       Good luck,
       Richard

    
    Thanks (for all the responses).  We live in MA, and last night, my
    fiance spent hours in the library researching the current laws.  We're
    still agonizing over this one, trying to figure out what the
    alternatives are.
    
    

    There is for the locals in Mass a good tip. IF you can prove that your
    a native, you can call the local county court libaries and get your
    case work done for nothing. That is according to a county libarian who
    told me. Sooo! Call and find out whats the whats. The only other
    suggestion is to write a motion to shoot the ex. :-)

    There is something else Richard you forgot to mention and that is that
    the guidlines are there. But for the courts to follow them is another
    story. And there are countless horra stories that we have read, heard
    about, and experienced the contrary. The judges, marrital masters, and
    etc. have a blind eye to justice. The play by how they feel that day.
    Drunk or sober.

    My husband just went to court over child support in NH, and we did all
    the reading, etc...  It clearly states in the law books that they can't
    take into consideration your income.  We also confirmed this with our
    lawyer.
    
    The ONLY time they can take your income into consideration is if your
    husband decided to voluntarily quit work.  
    
    

    Unfortunately the judge has the power of interpretation and sole
    arbitrating power in disputed claims regarding any support order.
    As you read the guidlines you'll notice many references to 
    "at the judges discretion". The support statute is a guide only, not an
    algorithmic process. If the judge of the day sees you paying more and
    can justify that this is in the best interest of the child then you
    "will" pay more support. Sad but true. 

    .9
    Tell that to the couple that I know of who have filed bankruptcy. He
    has an ex who is living in the original marrital home, collects
    maintence/alimony, and child support and refuses to get a job although
    she is college educated with Several degrees. He is in sales on the
    road remarried to a woman who owned a buety saloon. And the two of them
    have the courts so far into their pockets that the min the man turns
    over the engine in the car its money lost. And there was one of those
    chamber deals that went down that their attorney sold them up the river
    for. 
    
    Again.... Its the judges discretion. And its to the point that they
    cannot afford their house, business, and new/used car to pay for the ex
    and her non working habbits. His second wife started the business up
    from nothing and has had it for some 20++ years. Can you imagine what
    they must be going thru? There is children from both marriages. And 
    on the second marriage his wife is not squeezing her ex like this. 
    
    Remember two words that don't go together. Fair and Just. Like an
    oximoron in the courts. 
    

    The sad part! There are somethings you cannot get from under in a
    bankruptcy. 
    
    1. Is child support
    2. Is maintence/alimony
    
    You can only get these reduced by a motion/court order/decree. 
    
    The fun begins when you find out first hand how fair and just the
    system is not.
    
    Remember to document, document, document! The three 'D's to success in
    a case. 
    
    Peace
    

    Hi Lisa. Would you please post any info which you find. I'll be getting
    married this September to a man who is currently paying child support.
    I have assets (house, money) which I want to protect just in case something
    happens (my fiance/husband gets laid off...).
    
    What are the rules of Mass. (and where can I find them) concerning
    a spouse's assets especially those that they bring into a marriage?
    How can I find out if there are any chances that Mass. could attach
    my income for my spouse's child support if he were to get laid off 
    or something worse happens.
    
    For instance, I plan on keeping my house in my name until both girls are 
    out of college. I don't know if that will help. 
    
    Is it possible to have a legal agreement between 2 people stipulating
    that the assets that a person had prior to the wedding, is theirs and
    not the other person's? Is there any legal way of protecting my assets?
    
    When my fiance went to court 2 years ago because his ex-wife wanted to
    up the child support, her husband's income was only looked at as
    contributing to the expenses. So he paid 1/4 - 1/2 of the mortgage and
    1/4 - 1/2 of the bills. 
                    Cindy
    

    Cindy,
    
    Prenups don't work. There have been many prenups that have been trown
    out of court. 
    
    I know one man who was married three months, had a prenup and she got
    more than half of the assets reguardless of the contract. 
    
    Good Luck.

    better check with a lawyer on this one.  I don't think they can attach
    your income, but they may be able to attach property as "joint
    property".  Especially if, as George said, the court will not honor
    prenups.
    
    fred();

    Make sure you get what ever your attorney says in writting!:)
    
    Questions?
    
    How do you know when an attorney is lying?
    
    Answer........:)
    
    His/her lips are moving!:)

    I only want to make sure my assets are safe from my fiance's ex-wife. I 
    own a house and have savings so I want to make sure that she (the
    ex-wife) can't get to them. 
    Everything will stay in my name - including the house. Is there a way
    she can get the house? Are there any books detailing how to keep your
    assets from an ex-spouse?
    		Cindy
    

    Any assetts you own outright prior to a marriage are not suppossed to
    be included in any claims against your spouse. Only assetts that he and
    she accumulated or enhanced during their marriage/relationship. A
    prenuptual agreement between you and your husband defining how assets
    are allocated showing your pre-marriage assets to be excluded from the
    marrital assets would go a long way in protecting you from any funny
    stuff "she" may attempt. The unfortunate reality is that a probate
    judge has sole arbitrating power relating to any disputed claims and
    will rule according to the effectiveness of arguments offered to the
    bench. Strong arguments supporting your case are all you have. 

    And arguments is all you might have. And tears is what she will have.
    Alagator tears the will bring on the wrath of the black robed monsters
    who can send you to hell if you don't have a good argument. 
    
    And worse that that! Is that you will spend your hard earned money to
    pay for an attorney that will have good parlor sales and sell you on a
    confidance of "Piece of Cake, don't worry she cannot get it." And
    suprise! Suprise Suprise! 

    So the reality is that you need to hide as much as possible. Are there
    any books out there that show you how to hide your (meaning my) money?
    I'd like to be saving for the my future and not for my fiance's
    ex-wife's future.
    	Cindy
    

    Set up trust funds, set up mechinizms that will allow you to LEGALLY
    hide these assets. Doing such on the sly, will burn you hotter than
    hell itself. And you cpa or attorney or investment councler can be your
    best resource. There is a man in jail for doing it on the sly and got
    the big house routine because he had a $10,000 secret fund to use to pay
    his attorney. And because he was paying for all the attornies, (his,
    hers, and the childrens). He got cought. 
    
    

    Re .18 Thanks for your advice about detailing our assets. One question
    - is the money that I save from my salary (and then invest) considered
    to be "our" money rather than my money - legally that is?
    
    Basically, we're keeping our separate accounts  - he pays for his
    condo's mortgage and I pay for my house's mortgage. If we ever rent his
    condo, then the rent money would go into a shared account and then 
    invested. Could I assume (and where would I find this out) that the
    rent money would be considered to be his but that my investments would
    be considered mine? 
    
    The other question is - does it make sense to go to a lawyer prior to
    the wedding? Is there anything a lawyer could do to protect my assets
    from being pulled into a child support increase or worse...
    			Cindy
    
    

    Generally everything you make after marriage is "joint" property
    between you and your husband.  Might be able to get around it with
    a prenup.  Have to check with lawyer.

    Your salary should be "safe", but joint property will likely be
    in danger if he falls behind in "child support" payments and property
    gets attached.

    fred();

    Does anyone know of a "good" lawyer who will deal with prenuptual
    aggreements. I work in Littleton, MA. and my fiance works in Nashua. We
    commute past Leominster, MA. so anyone in that general vicinity is
    welcomed.
    
    By the way, thanks for all the notes. It's been helpful to me (but also
    causing me concern...) in recognizing that I really need to be
    proactive before the wedding in order to protect any assets that I have
    currently, and any assets that I may have after the wedding (especially
    investments which will be handled separately by both of us). 
    
    It's pretty pathetic that I need to go through all this from fear that
    my fiance's ex-wife might try to go after him again for more money. I
    sympathize for both men and women caught up in this game and have
    nothing but contempt and anger for those people trying to use the
    system for their own gain (and not the kids). I just wish the legal
    system would work better than it is.  Sigh...   Any hope in sight?
    			Cindy
    

    Guess it goes to show yha how alittle power can get outta control.
    
    I feel that your going to find that there will be allot of attornies
    that will be happy to take your money. But to back it up in court when
    the fiecies hits the fan will be the real test of their work. And I
    rather doubt very much if there will be such an animal around when it
    happens. And or you might find that this attorney is going to drag
    his/her heels when it comes to enforcement of such a thing that he has
    written. 
    
    Thats life!