Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    Believe it or not!! We had a gentleman who used a mediator.
    Low-and-behold!! The guy is back with the wife! Not to get your hopes
    up to be dashed. But things are working fine for him and her. But
    insofar as mediators go. Rememer that there are some that are true
    feminist, who have an adjenda to follow. And you might be recieving
    some of that good stuff if your not careful. I am not putting down
    feminist ideas or idealizms. I believe in much of it, like any other
    political movement there is nothing 100% I can agree with. Just to
    caution you what to watch out for. 
    
    I guess the issue is how disagree-able are you two birds? Is there give
    and take that you can mutually agree with? Is there a happy med you can
    agree with as a final? Do not let the Mediator become the ex's second
    attorny. And sometimes they want to. Gives them power, little people
    with big power ego's are dangerour folk. 
    
    Do you have now a..aa....aha.... Geeeze! Its tuff saying this word
    cause I am not happy with their performances lately. Well lets try
    agian. An attorny? There. I got it off my chest. Whew! For a moment I
    thought I was gonna studder them out. :) Right now I kinda feel that
    its too tuff to find a good one of these. They seem to have great
    parlor talk about how they can get you things like custody and/or a
    fair shake in your divorce. But. To find one who can preform to
    expations of what is expected becomes lost in the mirid of $$$$ and
    paperwork that you wind up doing. Best thing still is to find a mens
    group like Fathers United for Equal Justice and learn from them.
    The least thing that you will walk from from one of these groups is how
    to write a motion on shooting the ex. :) Now George! Be good! Its sooo
    hard these days. But I am learning!:) 

    I think it's great that you are talking with a mediator.  The attorney
    is looking for dollars and for the best interests of his/her client.
    I think a mediator is more interested in fairness.  And also less
    expensive.  Probably less friction as well.
    
    

  The problem with mediation is that they try to come to an
agreement that is fair.  When one party wants it all and the
mediators don't come up with the recommendation that he/she
wants, they fail to recognize the recommendations and take
the other person to court instead to get a "better" result.

    re.3
    Why is it a problem to come to an agreement that is fair?  I don't
    quite understand what you mean.       

    RE: 172.4 -
    
    Let me try and tackle that one -- or at least give one person's
    experience as insight.  I told my to-be-ex that I wanted nothing more
    than an equal division of assets that were acquired when we were
    married and joint custody of the children in the belief that (a) an
    equal division would be fair and (b) that the children would benefit by
    having both parents available to parent as much as possible.
    
    Her response was to say (I'm paraphrasing here) "okay, you want 50%.  
    Well, I can keep the house until our youngest is at least through high 
    school (another 11 years), get sole custody with minimum visitiation 
    - if any - for you,  get full child support, get a large amount of alimony,
    and have you pay for health and life insurance and all of the debts.  Now, 
    if we take the TWO EXTREMES (my emphasis) of what we want..."
    
    ...at that point I started to laugh and she got angry and slammed the
    door in my face.
    
    I ask you: WHAT WOULD A MEDIATOR DO IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS?  Split
    the difference?????
    
    She has absolutely REFUSED to be reasonable for ANYthing.  And I don't
    really like to play martyr.  In my case I think that a mediator would
    only result in using up more time (and money).
    
    Steve

    There is nothing wrong with coming to a fair agreement.  I
    think mediation should be mandatory versus going through
    the court system.
    
    What I mean is that the only person I know who went through
    mediation ultimately ended up in court.  His ex didn't like
    a fair agreement, but rather wanted it all.  He tried to
    use the mediated agreement as a basis for forming the court
    ordered agreement, but the court wouldn't consider it.
    
    Lots of money down the drain and no results...
    

re: .6,

>    There is nothing wrong with coming to a fair agreement.  I
>    think mediation should be mandatory versus going through
>    the court system.
>
On the surface, it may not be a bad idea, especially if the mediator is fully
specialized in this area and knows all the tricks and emotions involved.

John

    The main problem that I've seen with mediation is that there is 
    little or no motivation for the woman to make any concessions.
    Espessially if she has a lawyer "wathcing out for her best interests".
    If you know you can go into court and get it all anyway, why make
    any attemt at working out the problems.  Unless you and your ex
    are having a fairly amicable divorece where you can deal with issues
    in a sane and reational method, don't bother with a mediator.
    
    fred();

    Unless both sides are looking at the real facts. The facts are that if
    you go thru with a divorce there is emotional looses on both sides. And
    there are hidden financial losses too. It was said to me by my
    councler that if you asked divorced parties after a years time of the
    final, both will agree that they wished that they had spent more time
    in trying to resolve their problems and not trashing the marriage than
    the out come of what they are living with. Reguadless of who won what.
    
    Face facts, not only do you marry the bride for better or for worse.
    You marry the family that she is related to for the same as a default.
    loosing them too can be grivious. I can only pray that someday I can
    make a dent in the wall of family alienation. 

   This note is being posted for a noter who wishes to remain anonymous. 
   Please reply here or send me mail and I will forward it to the author.

   							Terza
   						     -comoderator-

    ============================================
I have decided to file for divorce.  I do not want to "stick it to him," nor
do I want to "take" him.  Neither do I want to be taken.  I want things to be
fair and just.  Any suggestions would be welcome.  He came into the marriage
with more than I did, so it seems fair that he should leave with more.  He had 
a small house without much equity, and some nice furniture.  I had an 
apartment with hand-me-down furniture.  But we've been married almost 15 
years, so maybe an equal split would be fair.

I would like to use a mediator.  I think that would be less adversarial,
easier (if that's possible) on the kids, and cheaper for all.  We earn
approximately the same amount of money, and I am assuming there will be joint
legal custody.  I hope to get sole physical custody, but I realize I may have
to settle for some sort of shared physical custody too.  I would like both of
us to have a home with enough room to comfortably house the kids, and since
we both make about the same amount of money, I don't think there should be
any child support.  There probably should be some sort of guideline for
sharing child rearing expenses though.

At the same time, if he decides to fight, and/or get nasty, I don't want to
be caught off guard.  I am seeing a lawyer this week to find out how to
protect myself.  I figure right after I tell my husband that I am going to
file is when I will be most vulnerable.  Since I do not want to hit him with
an order to vacate, I leave the door open to him hitting me with one.

The kids.....  How do you tell the kids?  Do you warn them before one parent
moves out?  Or do you wait until the day it happens?  (The kids are 1st and
2nd grade.)  There's not a lot of open fighting, so they may be surprised.  I
only say "may" because I keep hearing that kids "always" know.  

This is in NH, if that makes a difference.  

How do you tell your spouse that you have made this decision?  I know he
figures we'll never break up, no matter how painful it is to stay together.
He figures you just need to grin and bear it.  I want to tell him in a manner
that makes it obvious that I don't want to fight, that I don't want to be
nasty.  And I don't want to trigger a desire to fight in him.  At the same
time I want to be firm enough that he realizes this is not just a threat.

    	I would adise you to see the mediator first.  If you go to a
    lawyer, they'll feed you a line about getting what you deserve, and
    protecting your interests.  What they really mean is that they want to
    make it adversarial, and they'll be the only ones to walk out of it
    with anything.  They'll also do what they can to poison any chance that
    you could have a successful relationship with your ex.
    	If you talk to a mediator, they'll probably have good ideas about
    how to handle the lawyer, and you'll have a resource you can talk to. 
    If you talk to the lawyer first, you'll be inclined to treat them as an
    advisor and confide in them.  A lawyer with a client who depends on
    them has a goldmine.
    						John