Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    Your daughter may not want to see you right now.  She is probably
    hurting and you are one of the causes.  Her mother may (or may not) be
    aiding this feeling.  You have to keep up your side of the relationship
    and be patient, she should eventually come around.  If she is being
    poisoned against you, it will eventually backfire against the poisoner,
    but it is hard to wait.  Another possible factor in your daughters
    feelings may be the old loyalty issue, my mom is in pain and I live
    with her (and love her and dad) and if I see dad, she may be hurt by my
    disloyalty.  So rather than cause the painshe can see, she allows the
    pain she does not have to face immediately.  It is hard on you, but you
    have to work through it. 
    
    Be kind and patient toward your daughter.  Try to work through your EX
    to maintain contact if at all possible.  If not, card, letters, phone
    calls and any visits you can arrange will help.  It is human to blame
    the absent.
    
    It won't help much, but here is a hug for you and your pain <<hug>>
    
    take care
    jimc
    
    

    MY daughter is also 15.  She (and her 12 year old brother) say they
    want me to visit them... without my new wife... and they are unwilling
    to visit me.
    
    My lawyer (who is about to take my ex to court for a modification of my
    divorce's visitation rights) insists that MY RIGHT to visitation
    cannont be usurped by the child.  And she further insists that since
    the 15 year old is biased against me by the ex, that the court will in
    all probability insist she visit me.  (after all, it won't be fatal to
    come up here for a week or so)_
    
    My advice?  Since your divorce is not yet final... be sure that it
    spells out SPECIFIC dates which the ex MUST COMPLY WITH, or be in
    contempt of court.  That will take any decision away from the kids, and
    from the ex.  In actual fact, it may relieve the child of pressure:
    "Gem mom... I can't help going!  THe court is making me"
    
    Children are always caught in the middle because they have to play to
    the loyalty pressures brought on by one or both parents:
    
    CP:  "If you go/like/enjoy/love you will be taking sides,
    and HE(SHE) LEFT YOU! HOW CAN YOU DO THAT TO ME?"
    
    
    Whatever you do... don't allow your divorce decree to say only
    something like this:
    
    "It is ordered and decreed that (NCP) shall have posession of the
    children at all times on a free and unlimited request basis.  It is
    ordered and decreed that (CP) shall surrender the children to (NCP) at
    the beginning of each period of posession."
    
    This is what mine says... and is far, far too vague... and it depends
    on my ex and me agreeing on visitation... (If we could agree on
    anything, we probably wouldn't have gotten the divorce!)
    
    
    tony

    Lenny,
    
    About the only thing you can do right now is continue to write.  May
    want to do something to verify that your daughter is getting the
    letters (like return receipt), and call.  Try to keep the divorce
    B.S. out of your letters.  Talk about youself and what you do, ask
    her about hersef to encourage her to write back.  Try to keep it 
    up-beat.
    
    Everyone else in NCP is probably getting tired of me beating this
    to death, but DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.  Keep a log of what you do:
    What, When, Where, Who, Results, etc.  Logs/journals can be used
    in court. I,e If you try to call 5 times and are always told "she's
    out" or "she doesn't want to talk" this can be used to establish a
    pattern in court.  The courts don't wan to hear "she's a miserable *&^@
    and she's @#%$^&ing me over".  They want hear "on this date and time I
    did this, and such&so happened, and on this date I did this and such$so
    happened".  
    
    KEEP TRYING even if you are not getting results. If nothing else, some 
    day your daughter will know that you cared enough to try and you'll reap 
    some MAJOR benefits.  Even if you Don't get immediate results, the 
    turn-downs can be used to establish a pattern (provided you are 
    documenting things).
    
    Best of luck,
    fred();

    Lenny,
    
    Unless there is a TRO agianst you, thats a no-no! I would persue that
    BIG BIG time! Get the phone number!!!

    Lenny,
    
    	Get some help to write a motion to get that phone number. Here in
    this state, if such crappie happened. You then write a civil suit for
    "Alienation of Affection". Sue the crappie out of the opposing camp
    for, say, $10,000. Or say.... $100,000. Suddenly when they are served
    by the local constable for it, they start becoming good boys and girls.
    And then there are folks winning these cases these days. So, GOFORIT!

    Lenny, I believe what George is saying is that your ex OWES you the
    phone number, even if the phone company is within its legal rights to
    refuse to give it to you.  As the father of the children who are at
    the other end of that line, you have legal rights to call your
    children, unless there is a  restraining order against you.
    
    Karen

    Re .7 Lenny,
    
    I believe that you said in .0 that there was supposed to be no 
    interference by the EX.  This is interference.  Document it.
    Also document the calls made last week.  Add Contemp of Court
    and Ailenation of Affection to your charges when this comes up
    in court.
    
    Sent her a letter stating that the court orders state that there
    is to be no interference by her between you and your daughter.
    DEMAND the ph #. Copy the letter and keep a copy and mail the letter
    "return receipt requested" for proof that she got the letter.
    Take that with you to court if she doesn't send the #.  
    
    Keep writing.  Keep documenting.  Keep gathering evicence for when
    you go into court.
    
    fred();

    One way to try to get the new phone number is to check your childrens
    school records.  Schools require a home phone number and since most
    people have joint custody, as one of the parents you have the right to
    see those records.
    
    The reason I say this is that a friend of mine is in the middle of a 
    very messy divorce and wanted an unlisted and unpublished phone number
    to stop the harrasment of her ex.  The phone company told her that if
    that is the only reason for the request that it was a wast of money
    because both parents have access to the shildrens school records and
    the phone number would be there.  The person also went on to say that
    this was not unusual.  
    
    I never had to try this, but it might be an avenue worth exploring.

    The best way is the way mentioned with a writing of a motion. Reason is
    that the courts will understand that there is alittle foul play going
    on here, and if its done agian there will be, in the imortal words of
    Cheech and Chong, a pee-pee whacked. (Bailuff, whack his pee pee).

    ...besides that, this will also set up his case for "Alienation of
    Affection" which can bring upon the opposing camp a $10,000 law suit.
    He needs the money just as much as she does.....

    Lenny,
    
       I agree with George.  The best way to get the phone number is
    to go through the court.  It will help to document that this
    type of event is typical of the ex's behavior.  I think it would
    also be a good idea to record all conversations to or from her
    household to avoid false charges of harassement.  My ex played a
    game with me of changing her phone number, then begging me to
    take her new phone number, only to have the phone number changed
    again so that it would appear as if I were harrassing her.
    
    Regards,
    Gary

    FWIW, my ex had an unlisted #.  I sued.  She agreed to have the girls
    call me.  For a few weeks they did, collect 8-).  Then when the calls
    disappeared I had the phone number from the bill.  But I am still mad
    that she did that to the girls.  Now that they are with me, I encourage
    them to call her whenever they wish, on our bill.  Sad thing is, they
    don't want to talk to her.  Funny how life can backfire, huh.
    
    8-)
    jimc