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Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

Title:Welcome to the Non-Custodial Parents Conference
Notice:Please read 1.* before writing anything
Moderator:MIASYS::HETRICK
Created:Sun Feb 25 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:420
Total number of notes:4370

111.0. "Father & Custody/location--seeks help" by COGITO::GRESH () Sun Jan 20 1991 01:33

    Just discovered this notes file tonight and was deeply moved by the
    kind of support people have been giving.  I am writing for some advice
    from others who have similar experiences or insights into my dilemma.
    
    My dilemma centers on custody of my three children.  To make a long
    story short, while I was in mediation with my wife for a divorce, she
    sued me for divorce, not satisfied with the slowness of the process and
    the difficulty I had been having with the shocking reality that my
    children would not be with me each night, etc.  Pressured, I signed a
    divorce agreement allowing my wife to move 70 miles away, even though
    her job as a professor is only 30 miles away from where we live. 
    Before we finalized this agreement in court, I changed my mind, saying
    that in my heart of hearts I couldn't permit my children to be so far
    away. I did not challenge anything else in the agreement.  My concern
    here is custody.
    
    My lawyer and I told the court that the single most important
    unresolved issue is custody.  My wife's job is 30 miles away in New
    Hampshire and she wants to live 35 or so miles on the other side of
    where she works.  I live 5 miles from my children now.  I have asked
    that my wife perhaps live 25 or so miles from where I live, since my
    economic base is in Massachusetts.  There is no room for compromise,
    apparently.  
    
    We are in the discovery process phase right now.  My chances of custody
    are slim because I signed the agreement.  If I had made up my mind
    earlier I would have had a better chance--I have stayed at home for a
    year and
    cared for my children after my second child was born, I cared for all
    three in Italy four summers ago while my wife studied, I wrote a
    book on becoming a father for Bantam many years ago and have
    written about fathers--and lived the experience well--for Glamour and
    other publications.  I am deeply involved as a father, and having the
    children move so far away is a dilemma.
    
    I know I have shot myself in the foot.  My son was disappointed I
    didn't fight to keep him and his sisters (one is 5, the other 15; he is
    11) in their Massachusetts town as I promised I would.  
    I now see clearly what I want--to continue to be a very involved
    father, to be close to my children, to be in touch with them
    frequently, to be there for them, etc. as I have always been.  Even if
    I lose my fight now, I want my children to know that I love them
    enough to stand up and declare my love in this way.
    
    It's the 11th hour.  Any advice regarding two issues would be
    appreciated--custody (I've got excellent experience, a proven track
    record, feel strongly I am in many ways a better parent than my wife 
    is, etc.) and, if
    this is not workable, at least keeping the children relatively close
    by.  I am familiar with a Massachusetts law that requires a spouse to
    seek either the permission of the other parent to move the children out
    of state or permission from the Massachusetts Court.  I don't know how
    this law is interpreted or put into practice for the most part.
    
    Any advice or comments would be appreciated.
    
    Regards,
    
    Sean Gresh
    
    
    P.S. I have my children every other weekend, have dinner with them
    at my apartment every Wednesday night, talk to them virtually every
    day, and am very involved with their lives.  This is not enough
    contact, however, but I am grateful for this much at the moment.  
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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111.1RDVAX::COLLIERBruce CollierMon Jan 21 1991 12:3116
 It is not clear to me if you are talking about legal or physical custody, or
 perhaps both.  It is also not clear whether you are now trying to achieve
 joint physical custody, or if you are looking for sole (or primary) physical
 custody for yourself.

 It would surely be easier to get her to give up half custody, rather than all
 custody, though her wanting to live at some distance complicates this, of
 course.  If she isn't willing to compromise, I don't know which alternative
 the court might prefer, though it would presumably find keeping them in their
 current school system a positive factor (of course, it _ought_ to favored
 shared physical custody, but it is still rather unconventional).

 Best wishes with this painful problem.  I hope you have a skilled and
 knowledgeable lawyer.

 		- Bruce
111.2life s..ks, then you liveBENONI::JIMCillegitimi non insectusMon Jan 21 1991 12:4222
    I do not have any REAL advice to offer.  I can only say that
    I do know how it feels to be excluded from my childrens lives.
    Now that my youngest daughter is back with me, I am enjoying (despite
    the marital strife it is causing) the opportunity to work with and help
    her.  
    
    It sounds to me like your soon-to-be-ex knows exactly how to make you
    suffer, and I'd be willing to bet that she is only getting warmed up.
    Sorry, I hate to be so negative, but, forewarned is forearmed
    sometimes.  The 15 year old is old enough to decide who to live with
    but I would caution you about exerting pressure.  If the 15 year 
    expresses a desire to live with you, support it, otherwise tread
    cautiously.  The wishes of the eleven year old might be, al the least,
    considered, but again, please try to refrain from exerting pressure. 
    As has been mentioned in other notes by people who were once the child
    victims of such battles, pressure just makes it worse because they
    often do not want to reject either parent (and rightly so).
    
    Good luck, I hope someone can offer you useful info.  I wish you the
    best and wish I had more to offer.
    
    jimc
111.3try to bring in more infoLUNER::MACKINNONTue Jan 22 1991 14:4719
    
    
    Sean,
    
    There is a law that requires the courts permission for one spouse (ex)
    to physically move the children out of state.  My boyfriend had this
    work against him.  His ex(never married) decided she wanted to move
    back home (parent's house in upper new york state) to go to school.
    
    From my understanding, the state will allow her to leave if it is for
    educational purpopses that require her to move out of state.  If she
    has not given enough sound reason to move out of state, she may have
    a tough time leaving.  I have some papers on this at home.  I will try
    to remember to bring them in (if I am in here tommorow -- battling a
    hellish cold!!) tommorow and write more for you.
    
    Hang in there, your kids need you as much as you need them!!!
    
    Michele
111.4$0.02CSC32::HADDOCKAll Irk and No PayTue Jan 22 1991 15:3312
    Sean,
    
    It has been my understanding that the court will allow the custodial
    parent (CP) to move out of state if "it will improve the livelyhood
    of the child".  Ie. for educational purposes, to take a job offer
    or to take a better paying job offer, or better living conditions.
    
    If your ex is not changing jobs and cannot make a good case for
    being allowed to move otherwise, then you may have a chance.  
    Otherwise...well..good luck.
    
    fred();
111.5add my $.02 = .04POCUS::NORDELLThu Jan 24 1991 11:4219
    Welcome to this conference.  When my husband and I were divorced we had
    written in our agreement that NEITHER of us would move more than a 50
    mile radius of the marital home without the others permission.  This
    gave both of us a comfort level that the other would be around for our
    daughter.  Perhaps if you were to give the same commitment (not to move
    "X" amount of miles away) she would see it as an effort to compromise.
    
    Granted, if you have read any of my other notes in this conference, we
    were the exception rather than the rule when messy divorces were handed
    out.  We were (and still are) extremely conciliatory.  Our first
    concern is our daughter.   To me, a husband who has been as involved in
    parenting as you have been is an asset I would not want to lose and
    just because you are divorcing doesn't mean the children should lose
    such a caring parent.
    
    Good luck and don't beat yourself up, we are here to support you.
    
    Susan
    
111.6Cooling off ?TROA01::GRAYSONFri Jan 25 1991 14:5832
    
    I have just found this conference and would like to add my comments, 
    as lame as they may be (Canadian law and all).
    
    In our legal system ALL things funnel down to what is best for the
    children, esp. in Health, Education , and General Welfare.
    Agreements that are signed for contractual purposes have "cooling off"
    periods attached to them (sounds just like what you need to emphisise)!
    
    I may be letting myself in for abuse - I did obtain custody after a
    long, expensive, and ugly battle. One I was not prepared for or even
    one I wanted. Please make sure that you convince your lawyer of your
    story and he will do his work - don't think that without his/her
    support the facts will take care of themselves.
    
    The fact that your kids think you are not "fighting" for them (I may be
    paraphrasing) for them is distressing and your efforts need to be
    directed to them at this very difficult time.
    
    Know that you are not alone in this and that many people have gone
    through the binders and survived...
    
    I never thought I would be saying (typing) this , but after all the
    SCUDS of the Lawyers - my Ex and I had a wonderful talk just last
    night! 
    
    Focus on what your overall goals should be and go for them - legal,
    physical or emotional!
    
    Good Luck
    Bruce Grayson - 3 years later
    
111.7Yet more thoughtsTROA01::GRAYSONFri Jan 25 1991 15:0923
    
    Just reread your note and two more things hit me - so here goes.
    
    Since most of my reading material on this matter comes from the US my
    impression is that YOU and your wife are currently in a Joint custody 
    position, as is anyone who is not divorced and happily married. She has
    no more rights to movr the children than you (or vice versa).
    
    Both of you could move out of state, country, right now and take the
    kids (unless there are any court orders outstanding that would forbid
    this).
    
    Sorry to be glum and  ***I may be wrong*** check with your lawyer.
    
    Remember - you did not shoot yourself in the foot - you were, and are,
    under enormous pressures (unless you like this sort of thing).
    
    Perhaps someone in your state would like to comment?
    
    
    Bruce Grayson
    London Ontario