Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    
    Hoo Boy.  Just found this conference, thought I'd take a gander
    at it, and POW! did this topic hit a hot button.  This has been
    gnawing my guts off and on for four years now and it always gets
    worse around tax time.
    
    First of all, part of the divorce settlement was the standard "I
    get to claim them as long as I pay 50%" clause.  I say I am because
    I know what I pay, and my ex doesn't work. (The kids live with her
    and she's re-married.)  If she could by any stretch of the imagination
    pay more than 100% of what pay toward the welfare of the kids, then
    the kids will have had their college tuition saved up by the time
    they finish high school, with perhaps enough left over to go toward
    their retirement. (OK, so I exaggerate a little.)  The point is,
    I know I can claim them according to the original divorce decree.
    
    But noooooooo!  A divorce agreement signed willingly by two consenting
    people is now changed by an outside party (IRS), and no one of the
    parties has a good deal, and the other has a bad deal.
    
    When she informed me that she was going to claim one of the two
    kids, I thought "no way in hell" until my lawyer suggested that
    although he thought the law was unclear, I would most likely lose.
    
    Next comes having to get the ex to sign a release form for one of
    the kids, which gives me the priveledge of claiming what was mine
    to begin with according to the original agreement.  Where did she
    get the right to claim even one of the kids herself?  How was the
    IRS allowed to negate my half of a written divorce agreement and
    weight it in favor of the ex?  If she agreed to sell me her car
    for $1,000 in the divorce decree, am I in danger of some future
    law saying "minimum car sales price in divorce agreements shall
    be no less than $5,000, retroactive forever and regardless of any
    existing agreements"?  Can she claim both kids now, and should I
    feel lucky that she releases one?
    
    Well, after I took these questions to a lawyer who lightened my
    wallet considerably, he told me that he could not find anything
    to help me.  We couldn't fight the IRS, since the matter is not
    a tax problem, but a matter for the divorce court. *THEY* changed
    my agreement fer cripes sake!  I could go back to divorce court
    to ask to have my payments lowered in order to gain my tax equity
    back, but was once again advised: "First, you will most likely lose.
    Second, you could lose *big*" (weekly support negotiated four years
    ago might seem paltry to the guy in the black robe on the bench,
    and decide that a modest 50% increase is in order.
    
    So, I'm screwed to the wall.  By the way, my ex is very comfortable
    in not working, collecting my money, and spending it annually in
    the Caribbean or in ski country.  Oh, well, at least the kids get
    to go sometimes, too.
    
    -Dick
    

Dick, like I said, we are getting screwed big time about this.  Unfortunately,
even though we are the majority, it this case the majority *DOES NOT* rule.

It's going to take a whole army of us Joe's to seek equality among the
court systems.  I have written to some of our TRUSTY representatives and
I have gotten back things like, "I feel your pain but...", or "I sympathize
with your plight but unfortunately my hands are tied....".  My immdediate
response back to them is, "My hands will not be tied at voting time and
neither will be those of my comrades whom I share the same problem with!"

Pass along the word on this notes conference.  It was just announced 
yesterday so if you happen to know other "individuals" with the same
problem, tell them about us.

Thanks

Kenn

    Well, I guess I'll wait and see what happens:
    
    My divorce was final in Sept. '88.  When it came time for the '88 taxes
    to be filed, I got to claim the kids.  I was paying weekly child
    support for 4 kids ($214.00 per week)
    
    For all of 1989, my ex had NO taxable income.  Her sole source of
    income (other than the support) is from the agency she is a foster
    parent for.  That income, while quite substantial (something over 600
    per week) is all tax FREE and goes unreported to the IRS.  It's all
    quite legal.
    
    My divorce decree specifically states that I retain the right to claim
    each child for whom I pay support.  
    
    Now, perhaps this may never happen, but the way our relationship has
    gone down the chute I won't be surprized.  She may try to claim them. 
    But, if she does, how will she report any income of her own that was
    used to support them?  
    
    Betcha the IRS would STILL let her have the deduction!  just so I can't
    get it.  ;^)
    
    
    tony	(who_really_doesn't_anticipate_a_problem)
    		(unless she refuses to sign the release form out of spite)
    
    

    
    I read the tax preparation booklet that comes in the mail each year. 
    It states that to take a deduction that the non-custodial parent either
    has to attach the signed form mentioned here OR attach a copy of the
    divorce decree which grants the deduction to the non-custodial parent. 
    Are some of you saying that the IRS is not going along with the
    statement in their own booklet?
    
    Our decree says that I get to claim my daughter who is the younger one.
    
    Steve
    

    yup....I QUOTE:
    
    If you are the noncustodial parent, you are treated as having provided
    over half of the child's support and can claim the child as a dependant
    if *EITHER* 1 or 2 below applies:
    
    1. The custodial parent agrees not to claim the child...(signing form
    8332)...
    
    2. Your divorce decree or written separation agreement went into effect
    before 1985 and it states that you can claim the child as a dependent.
    
    There are lfurther restraints imposed...amounts given for child support
    in '89, etc...
    
    But, what they are saying is NO MATTER WHAT YOUR DIVORCE DECREE SAYS
    (SINCE 1985) YOU MUST GET YOUR EX'S PERMISSION TO CLAIM THE KIDS!!!
    
    tony

I just found this conference, and this is a topic that burns me up too.

My husband's ex makes peanuts, and he pays in excess of $1000 per month
in support.  His divorce decree (1988) states that she has the right to claim
all 3 children, however she has to prove that she needs the deductions and allow
him to use any she cannot use.

Therefore we get a copy of her return every year - pretty pitiful.  By my
calculations, we should be able to claim all 3 children AND HER TOO!  (No
joke, true statement)

One way we "minimized" the impact of it all was to offer to "buy" the deductions
from her.  She figured what she would owe (or get back) claiming 0,1,2,or3 kids.
We could claim any of them and pay her the difference.  That way it was a win-
win situation.  She got her money much sooner, and we got the deductions.

I still think the IRS is totally wrong.  If you really want to get heated about
it all, I'll tell you what I did.  Assume his ex marries some man who makes
exactly what my husband makes.  I make significantly more than she makes.  With
their non-taxable child support, and their tax exemptions, their NET INCOME 
would be about $15K per year MORE than our combined net income, even though I
make about 4x what she makes!  TOTALLY DISGUSTING!!!!!!!

   So we all agree that it's grossly unfair.  What can we do about it?  Can
   we take steps to change it?


   							Terza

    
    
    Re: .8
    
    This is an IRS ruling.  They make the rules for their benefit
    not ours.  It would cost you more to fight this and get it changed
    than any tax benefit you might get.  I choose to live with it.
    
    Steve
    

Hi.
    
    I am about to be going through what you folks have/are going
    through.....
    
    I have two children, my wife hasn't worked in approx 10 years, {her
    choice...}, and i expect to pay approx 250. a week.  I have been
    separated for about 3 months and in that time i have continued to
    pay all of tghe bills as well as giving her expense money.....BTW
    I am living with a kind soul who won't take a cent....otherwise
    I would be living in my office or car.....I just want my kids to
    be taken care of....{even if that eventually means fighting for
    custody}....BUT i don't need to be raped by every tom dick and dick
    because of my lack of not kicking my wife in the a** to ge a job
    for her own sanity,.,,,,,
    
    anyways, it's off to interview lawyers, as I tend to be too passive
    and in this situation that can be deadly.
    
    Hopefully i can learn by some of your experiences.....Many changes
    for all.....I see the mountain ahead, but at least the smoke and
    mirrors are gone.
    
    Bruce

    Good luck Bruce (and kids).
    fred();

    Boy am I glad I have a pre-1985 agreement.  IMHO the IRS does not care
    about fair or right, I just wish they could be reached sometimes.