Conference quark::mennotes

    I am very cautious about making long term committments because I think
    it is very extraordinary to actually find someone with whom you can be
    compatible over an entire lifetime.  I would recommend that you never
    get yourself into such a dreadfully incompatible situation.  Once
    having put yourself there, I have no idea how you'll get to a
    resolution that will satisfy everybody.  Good luck.
    
    DougO

    re .0
    
    The answer is that you don't have a lot of leverage here.  "Being
    reasonable" depends totally on the other party also being reasonable.
    You can file for divorce and fight for custody as long as your bank
    account holds out and your lawyer doesn't sell you down the river, and
    hope to *&^%$ that the judge agrees that her behavior endangers the
    children (good luck).  The way the laws and courts are currently
    rigged, if the loss of your love  and support isn't enough to make them
    take notice, then you're s***ed.  When it comes to power, she has it
    all.  Even the loss of your support is not likely since the courts will
    force you to continue supporting them long after you've been eliminated
    from the picture.

    fred();

    
    I'm not sure what .0 means by "mutually exclusive"; my assumption is
    that we are talking about two faiths that, although you belong to
    either one or the other, at least recognize each other and initially
    accepted the interfaith marriage.
    
    I also assume that you and your wife explored in some detail your
    religious difference prior to your marriage and had come to some type
    of agreement regarding the conduct of your married life, including the
    rearing of children.
    
    In that position, I would try to start some discussion to determine
    what has changed between then and now to create the current situation.
    Perhaps a chat over coffee with representatives of your respective
    religions (priest, rabbi, etc) would uncover some "hard-line" stance
    that is fairly recent and religiously unnecessary.
    

    Any religion, belief or principle, when followed to the extreme
    (blindly, that is)  makes things difficult for people around the
    believer. The base note proves this point. For example, when one is a
    vegan (an extreme form of vegetarianism, say, for religious reasons)
    the person would find it difficult to socialise with others who are not
    vegan. Most social interaction would have to be planned based on one's
    vegan habits...

    To a person driven by religious belief alone 'reasonable' becomes
    subjective. Since religion is often based on faith, reason can take a
    back seat. When you argue (or merely discuss an issue) with a believer
    from a logical point of view, you can be struck down, since the
    believer depends upon conviction where as you will depend upon simple
    logic. Faith has nothing to do with logic or reason. (It need not be
    illogical, though).

    What does one do then ? I have seen many believers see reason but
    during the period of change, the people around the person may have to
    pay a heavy price, say, in medical emergencies.. it would be difficult
    to wait for a person to see reason and summon medical assistance while
    a dear one lies in a life and death situation. Patience is definitely a
    major requirement if the relationship has to continue.
    
    Sometimes, it may help to adopt a give and take attitude. 'I will
    respect your right to religion and practise it myself to some extent.
    In return, let us agree that you will do the same in these following
    matters.'
    
    If there is serious disagreement on these areas or one party doesn't
    honour the agreement, well then, see the previous responses.
    
    Ranganathan

    The issue of faith didn't really arise untill children came along. 
    The more cynical may argue that she didn't have any leaverage over the
    relationship untill the snappers arrived but know she has it all.  I
    have no desire to affect my wifes spiritual life, but she does mine. 
    And, far more importantly that of the kids.
    
    I think what has happened is that her faith has grown much stronger
    over the passing years and she know "knows" thruths that were only
    questions before.  So what reason do the faithfull have to be
    reasonable when any disagreement is simply wrong.  I admit that I don't
    give her beliefs much time I see no need.  But, perhaps in order to
    stay close to my kids I need acting leasons at least.
    
    Michael   (.0)

    Hi Michael,
    
         I have been there....My husband was the same way. I ended up not
    having very much respect for him....It's now been a year or so when he 
    finally stopped " preaching" to me and the children. I almost left him
    because of this....
         I tried endlessly to explain to him...I wanted religion to be a
    way of life....not have him with his head in the clouds kicking us in
    the face....that wasn't what it was all about!!! I felt he needed to
    feel like he had to rule us in order for us to live in Heaven....
    
       My children didn't dare do anything wrong because they felt they
    were'nt obeying thier father...
    
       He would start preaching again to them.....I want my children to
    "know" they have a "loving" Father in Heaven that loves them no matter
    what! I don't want them growing up with guilt or bitterness...and turn
    thier backs on religion all together.....we all need something good in
    our lives....
    
       Needless to say Michael,,,,,we have grown from this experience....
                  
                               Lois

    	You don't say which religion, or whether she has a particular
    religious mentor that might have ideas of their own that are not a
    neccessary part of the religion. If this is the case then persuading
    her to talk to other distinguished practitioners of the religion might
    help.
    
    	For example, I have recently been reading the Koran, and there are
    several passages about tolerance and cooperation with Jews and
    Christians, and also about equality between men and women - the
    all-covering traditional womens dress was merely strong advice in a
    difficult situation rather than a religious directive.

    Be careful.... "extremism" is very dangerous indeed.  Remember "Jones"
    that induced the suicide of about 800 people.... The Daviduck (?) in
    Texas, suicide of 50 plus... a recent one in Europe of about 28... and
    all these deaths were cause by "religion" how can that be possible?
    still... it happened.
    
    Religion, the way I see it, is something very private, just for
    oneself, a means of strengthening our values, our inner shelf but never
    to impose those to others... that is not called faith, but coertion...
    and who needs that?
    
    It seems that religion is something to be discussed before marriage to
    avoid conflicts later on in life... I don't know what I would do if I
    were in your shoes, but lema is my religion is for me alone, I don't
    invade any others ground and I do NOT allow anyone invade mine.  thanks
    God, my husband shares my religion and so our kids, so we all have the
    same foundation and same beliefs, there is no conflict whatsoever.  I
    would say, be patient but firm, she should not invade "your" ground and
    much less, those of your children.  They should be free to choose by
    themselves when the time comes.
    
    	I wish you lots of luck.  Your problem is not easy...
    
    Ana

    MICHEAL,
    
    I FEEL DEEPLY FOR THIS MOMENT BUT I NEED TO ESTABLISH A FEW THINGS.
    
    FIRSTLY, I AM A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN. I BELIEVE THAT JESUS DIED TO SET
             US FREE FROM MANY THINGS INCLUDING SICKNESS AND DESEASES,
             AND EVEN DEATH.
    
    YES, JESUS CHRIST CAN HEAL.
    
    I DO NOT KNOW WHAT FAITH YOU OR YOUR WIFE ARE BUT I KNOW THIS THAT IF
    WHAT EVER SHE DOES AND IT WORKS IT IS GOOD.
    IF SHE IS BORN AGAIN AND ATTENDING A SOLIDLY GROUNDED CHURCH SHE SHOULD
    SPEAK TO THE PASTOR. HOWEVER IF SHE HAS JUST GONE OFF ON SOME WILD 
    GOOSE CHASE AND NOT BEING CONCERNED FOR THE SAFETY OF THE CHILDREN 
    THEN THIS IS WRONG.
    
    THOUGH SOME CHURCHES OR RELIGIONS ARE JUST FAKING THE POWER OF GOD TO
    HEAL, I HOPE THIS IS NOT TRUE.  PLEASE REMEMBER THAT JESUS CAME INTO
    THE WORLD SO THAT WE MAY BE SAVED AND NOT PERISH.
    
    I WILL PRAY FOR YOU EVEN THOUGH YOU YOURSELF DO OR DO NOT BELIEVE IS
    THIS WONDERFUL THING.
    
    I AM IN NO WAY TEAMING UP WITH YOUR WIFE I JUST WANT TO TELL YOU TO GET
    DIVORCED WILL HARM THE CHILDREN MORE THAN ANY OTHER THING. ANYTHING YOU
    DO IN THIS TIME YOU WILL LAY SEED FOR YOUR CHILDREN TO PLANT AND WATER.
    
    
    FRANK CONCERNED
    
    

    Frank:  
    
    Please use mixed case -- all upper case appears like you're shouting.

    Seems like he *was* SCREAMING.
    
    To each his own.
    
    jeff

    Maybe he was using an ASR33.
    
    [dale]

    Dale and Others,
    
    I am sorry for that but I, "Here Is My Excuse, I was so busy thinking
    about the situation i forgot the type Style.
    
    My Apologies Guys.
    
    Frank.