Conference quark::mennotes

 He's likely jealous and possibly concerned he won't measure up to
whatever romanticized notions you may have for this other guy. It 
sounds like he's insecure.

 Let him have space if he wants it, but also let him know you aren't
going to put your life on hold indefinitely while he sorts things 
out. (And don't!)

    In addition to -.1, I also think there may be an element of
    possessiveness in there somewhere.
    
    /Bob 

    Hi,
    
    I agree with #2. It sounds like possiveness to me. It also sounds like
    a control issue. Why should you be made to feel guilty about a previous 
    relationship. This person sounds rather rigid to me not old fashioned.
    I would be careful about entering a relationship with this man. 
    
    Paula

    It sounds to me as though this guy has the old-fashioned idea that
    women are supposed to be pure and have no past.  Pesonally,  I would
    have no patience with it.  It would make me wonder just how pure his
    past was, and I have no time or patience for any man who thinks my past
    sure be pure and spotless, while he was out having the time of his life
    (which I've often found to be the case with men like that).
    
    You can do what you like, but I'd tell him that if he can't deal with
    the fact that I had a life before I met him, he can take a hike, and
    I'll still keep living.  I have no time in my life for that type
    of crap anymore.
    
    One of my ex-boyfriends (this was several years ago) threw a fit when
    he found out about an incident from my past, and called me a whore and
    a slut, etc., etc., while I begged him in tears not to turn his back on
    me.  Later on in the relationship I found out his past was far wilder
    than anything I'd ever done!!  I learned my lesson then.  Never again
    will I take that crap from a man.
    
    Lorna
    

    .5 Lorna
    
    I know that words are harder then the real thing.  He has told
    me about his past relationships.  Basically he has only had
    intimate relations with 3 other people.  But I never asked details..
    He keeps telling me  "some thing are better left unsaid"  but I
    want him to know everything about me and my past, but he insists
    he does not want to know.  I think he is just really jealous.
    
    Thanks for helping..
    
    j

I can remember relationships in the past, where if the woman told me that
she slept with a guard she met at her decworld hotel, then I'd be jealous and
start to worry that she might do it again.  I got particularly jealous if she
told me the story and then she soon went on a business trip.

This sort of jealousy on my part only occurred at the beginning of my 
relationship.  Once we were together awhile, I stopped worrying about such things.

So maybe your beau will also stop worrying if your relationship just gets some
time to develop.

As for giving him space, yes you better, if that's what he's asking for.
If he cares about you, you won't lose him if you give him space.

/Eric

    re:.2
    
    Well, call me old-fashioned and a chauvinist, but I cannot imagine
    being in love with someone without being a little possessive.

    
    Just give the guy some time. It seems to me that he's insecure. There's
    also the fact that he has only had 3 previous (serious) relationships
    This would indicate to me that he doesn't date a lot. What
    I mean is that he's the type of guy who likes to get to know somebody
    over a long period of time (as friends) before he would even contemplate 
    dating them or feels secure enough to ask them out. 
    The reason may be that he isn't interested in wasting time on short flings 
    or that he can't handle the rejection if things don't work out after a couple of
    dates, but whatever it is, he took the time and effort to get to know you
    and you can bet that it wasn't a casual decision to ask you out etc...
    If he believes in only making love instead of *sex* well then he would 
    probably never consider sleeping with somebody whom he had just met  
    in a hotel and because he has never had the experience of a long term 
    relationship blossoming from a chance meeting he cannot understand 
    how you could.
    He may also be scared that he won't match up to this BodyGuard. You
    have to admit, it sounds a tall order to live up to a guy who guards a
    princess and who swept you off your feet when you first met him.
    Look the point is, you seem to love this guy and he seems to love you
    (or else he wouldn't even bother to try and sort things out) so you
    just have to let things move along until eventually *hopefully* this
    insecurity will disappear. It's also your responsibility to reassure
    this guy that you do care for him (if you want things to last)
    otherwise this sense of jealousy will permeate your relationship and in
    the end destroy it as it probably has his previous relationships.
    
    The only reason I entered this note is because your friend reminds me, in
    ways, a lot of myself. I've experienced this situation from both sides of
    the fence and it was only when I was the one who was the target of the
    jealousy that I woke up and changed the way I viewed my relationships.
    Now I never ask nor tell (only the bare minimum) about previous
    partners. Live for what you've got not what you had !
    
    Hope this rambling helps in some way.
    
    Peter.   
                                                                          

    Question:
    
    So why does he need space and time?
    
    J

    .12  
    We are not trying to men bash, I am just trying to FIGURE OUT
    why men get so jealous of prior relationships, thus asking
    for time and some space to figure out WHAT???
    
    That is all, I am sure this happens all the time.  This does
    not need to relate to my specifc story, I as a female don't 
    understand why when things are all of a sudden going 
    TERRIFIC and someone finds out something so TRITE to me
    about me about a long time ago, why does this have to
    affect now.
    
    j
    That is all

    
    re: 11
    
    I think the *space and time* thing is really a plea to you to reassure
    him that you don't want him to go.
    He wants you to beg him to stay.
    
    DON'T DO THAT ! but do make it clear to him that you would prefer to
    talk about it and try to reach a conclusion together.
    
    Look this is just advice based on what I went through, not every
    situation is the same and I'm missing most of the facts of this one. 
    You are welcome to send me a confidential mail with further details and
    I will do what I can to help.
    
    Peter. 

    
    re .15, I think everyone realizes there are two sides to this story,
    but I don't think that has to preclude our listening to her side and
    trying to help her out if we can.
    
    re .8, Mike, you are an old-fashioned chauvinist.
    (when you mentioned that we could call you one, I realized that I'd
    been wanting to for a long time.)  :-)
    
    
    Lorna
    

In reference to note 12...

First off,,,  To generalize; "Why MEN get so jealous", and then
to say you're not men bashing,,, well, sorry, you've contradicted
yourself with such a generalizaion.

Jealousy knows no bounds of gender...

Second; Is he considering that this incident was in the
lines of casual sex in the begining of the realationship ?
he could feel a little uncomfortable about that behavior, 
regardless of precautions.  Can't say I'd blame him
(Understand I'm not trying to implicate anything. ) 

Beyond that,,,,,  I would agree that there could also be some
possesiveness going on...

Possesiveness and Jealousy,,, pick your favorite curse, neither
one are fun to deal with.  better to steer clear of any unusual
displays of either.


Talk to the lad, find out what he's REALLY worried about....

My thoughts:

If he has told you that he does not want to talk about his past relationships 
and does not want to hear about yours, then don't talk about them.  Hearing you 
talk about it may make him feel uncomfortable, so don't.  

Prior relationships don't bother me, but I still would rather not hear about 
them.  

Good Luck,

Steve

.11> So why does he need space and time?
    
    Possibly, to distance himself from the immediacy of the situation and
    to sit and calmly collect his thoughts and decide what he really wants
    to do.
    
    I don't know why you assume this is jealousy.
    
    
    re:jealousy and men
    
    FWIW, I've known plenty of women who expose the ol' cat claws when we
    bump into some of my ex-girlfriends.  Especially when we bump into the
    ex-model or the aerobics teacher.
    
    This isn't a male thing, it's a human thing.

    Maybe he doesn't feel like it is a trivial thing.  As was said before,
    maybe his concept of where sex belongs in a relationship is different.
    And why, if he has said he doesn't want to know about the past, does
    he have to know?  Everyone deserves space and time in a relationship
    if they ask for it.  Any relationship that cannot accomodate this
    request is destined for problems in the future.   If he has
    reservations, they are based on how he feels about the things he knows.
    Would you deny his right to his feelings?  

    re .0

    I think his main "insecurity" is that he may still be second best
    in your mind.  I agree with the previous "security guard for the
    princess sweeping you off your feed" explanation.  After all,
    he didn't "sweep you off your feet" when you met, so right there
    he has some negative comparison.  Another angle is that you say
    that he has only had relationships with 2 or 3 other women.  
    Relationships, for him, may be harder to come by and as such he may
    value them highly.  You "fling" may indicate to him a certain
    frivolity on your part and bring on a certain amount of desire to 
    "get out before he gets hurt again".  He may be carrying some old
    baggage from one of his own relationships and have a fear of getting
    hurt again.

    I do not agree with the "dump him if he doesn't shape up soon"
    recommendations.  At least not right away.  I also think that the 
    "need for a little space" may be a need for some reassurance.  If he 
    does indeed have a high value for relationships he may be worth a 
    little work to keep, and  that may take some work on your part to 
    "reassure" him that you "regret" the former lovers and he is indeed 
    "Numero Uno".

    There is a lot of stuff going around about "men should be able to
    show their feelings", but if you read between the lines you soon
    realize that the feelings that they should show had d^%n well better
    be confidence and self assuredness.  I don't know him.  By the
    fact that you took the time to enter this note and try to get some
    answers tells my you think a quite a bit of him.  The fact that
    he is bothered by anything you have done, indicates a certain amount
    of caring about this relationship on his part.  For all I know
    he may be a total looser, but then, he may be a diamond-in-the-rough
    in need of a smart woman to do a little "polishing".

    fred();

    I agree that jealousy is a human thing, not a male thing.  I think it's
    only human nature to feel jealousy.  The important thing is how we deal
    with our feelings of jealousy.  I, also, think it's best not to go into
    too much detail over past relatinships.  Somestimes it might even be
    for the best to, dare I say it, skirt the truth.  Sometimes the old
    saying "what people don't know won't hurt them" is true, and even more
    important what people don't know won't be able to hurt *you* either.
    
    My guess would be that he thinks his relationship with you is something
    special, something that you wouldn't experience with just anybody. 
    Then, he hears about this other guy from your past, and begins to
    wonder just how meaningful your relationship with *him* is.  Know what
    I mean?  People need to remember that just because their SO may have
    had a casual fling with someone in the past, that doesn't necessarily
    mean that the current relationship cannot be serious and meaningful.
    People also need to remember that previous serious relationships, that
    ended, do not have to detract from current relationships.  
    
    re George, I think she's talking about something that happened *prior*
    to seeing the current guy.  I don't think she's talking about seeing
    somebody on the side, which seems to be what you thought see was
    saying.  I think you misunderstood her note.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    I'm going through the same thing.  He's jealous and unhappy about my
    past and he HATES IT.  Sometimes he can't stop picturing me with these
    past boyfriends, and it drives him crazy. If he could stop, he would,
    but he can't seem to.  I have less trouble dealing with his ex's, but
    we look at things differently or something I guess.  I mean, I feel
    pangs, and it stings sometimes when he brings something up, but I
    understand he never means to hurt me, and I never mean to hurt him, and
    sometimes there's something htat just plain needs saying, and we have a
    commitment to share what's really present for us.
    
    I read nancy friday's book "Jealousy", and that gave me some insight,
    but I still wish there were som way I could help him (other than giving
    him space).  He's handled a lot of the snide, denigrating comments
    (like those Lorna's past beau gave her) about my past, which were hard
    to take, but I knew it waasn't a rational person talking there, it was
    the jealousy. He has gotten that well under control, but sometimes it
    just gets so awkward - I know he gets very distant and disconnected
    anytime anything from my past shows up.  And there seems to be little
    either of us can do to change it.  
    
    Any advice from men on how they may have handled this in the past?  was
    mroe time in the relationship the answer - and you got more comfortable
    and trusting?  is it about trust, or about poor self-esteem, or
    jealousy, or anger, or fear, or what?
    
    -Jody
    

    IMO, there seems to be a rather serious communications disconnect here.
    You want to tell him all about your prior relationships. He says he
    doesn't want to hear. You tell him anyway, and assume his reaction
    means he's jealous.
    
    I can't put myself in your partner's shoes, and we've only heard one
    "side" of the story. I can only say for myself that were I to request 
    my partner to not discuss past intimate relationships and my partner
    persisted anyway, saying "it doesn't bother me, so it shouldn't bother
    you", I'd wonder about my partner's sensitivity.
    
    Lynn

    Some considerations.
    
    On the one hand, why tell him about your past experiences?  Is it not
    enough to say you were in love, or had casual sex a few times, or
    whatever?  Did he ask you for details or do you feel inwardly compelled
    to share them?  If the relationship is otherwise very good, why tell
    him more than he's comfortable knowing?  I can imagine you may have had
    a religious upbringing, have your own notions about purity, and feel
    compelled to treat your beau as a sort of confessor.  I'd look closely
    at YOUR motivations and feelings.  Are you asking him to absolve and
    forgive you for things you have done?  
    
    On the other hand, if you keep it a secret to protect his feelings, you
    may be denying a part of yourself and not being fully yourself in this
    new relationship.
    
    Laura

    Look closely inside and see if you were unconsciously sabotaging this
    relationship.
    
    Also, how well are you really matched?  Are you perhaps forcing the
    relationship for some reason?
    
    IF both you and your beau have old-fashioned values, the best course is
    "The less said the better."  
    
    IF your beau has old-fashioned values and you do not, and you shared
    this information just to let him know more about who you are, then I'd
    have to question if you have a future as a couple.  Are you with him to
    satisfy your mother or society or?
    
    Laura

    Aww shucks, Geo

    I can tell you from experience that some people tend to bring out a
    jealous side in others.
    
    I had a girlfriend about 10 years ago who liked to provoke a jealous
    reaction in me.  It made her feel wanted or something.  Anyone can be
    pushed to that

    FLAME ON
    
    Why is the base note set hidden?
    
    Why has nobody mentioned this?
    
    Is it only hidden to me?
    
    This seems to happen all over NOTES where you get a stream of replies
    to an invisible base note and this pi**es me off.
    
    FLAME OFF
    
    
    andy 

Re: .33

It's not hidden, it's been deleted by the author.  If it were hidden, you'd
get a message saying so when you tried to read it.  There's nothing I can
do to stop an author from deleting their notes, no matter how much I find
the practice annoying.

					Steve

I am also annoyed when authors delete their notes.  Particularly since there
is no positive indication from Notes, just a subject line and no text.  That 
could mean than the author hit Ctrl-Z at the wrong time.

On jealousy I have little to say, since I have had little personal experience
with it.

On disclosure, one sentence at the beginning of a relationship is all that I
would expect.  On occasion I have had the experience of a SO who wanted to 
supply a lot of details.  I told her that I did not want the details, and
suggested she ask herself why she wanted me to know them.  She decided that
a professional should hear her "confession."

>    Any advice from men on how they may have handled this in the past?  was
>    mroe time in the relationship the answer - and you got more comfortable
>    and trusting?  is it about trust, or about poor self-esteem, or
>    jealousy, or anger, or fear, or what?

I didn't handle it within the context of a relationship.  In my earlier,
younger days, I had problems with jealousy.  During teens and twenties,
there was what I now consider a myopic view of relationships; a sense that
if I was to be 'with' a person, that person similarly would need to be 'with'
me, alone and exclusively.  This view was tied in with rather confused notions
of what love, self, living, and the desire for sex were all about anyway.  I
didn't really deal with it until I had yet another relationship crash and burn
and spent years dealing with the pain.  I think I got past jealousy when I got
much stronger in self-esteem; I no longer need define who I am in terms of the
person I'm seeing, I no longer evaluate my self-worth that way.  I just see
myself as a reasonably ok person who has these good qualities and those bad
ones, these needs and those preferences, these skills and those handicaps, etc;
and I'm comfortable with it.  Or, working on the parts I'm not comfortable with.
Once I get past all the mind-racing insecure noise-in-the-head syndrome I can
take the time to enjoy living, eventually learn the knack of keeping myself
happy and satisfied with life choices, and, being happy, seek companionship 
much more successfully.

Having gotten there, I find that concerns about who my lovers might be seeing
just aren't in tune with that knack of paying attention to my needs and desires
in the relationship.  It's become a non-issue.  I'm who I am, what difference
is somebody else?  It just doesn't threaten or carry the charge anymore.

DougO

sound slike the base noter skipped out.....

Hmmmmm,,,,,,,,,  

Ah well, see if we ever give her advice like this again!!

		;^)

.36> I find that concerns about who my lovers might be seeing just aren't
.36> in tune with that knack of paying attention to my needs and desires
.36> in the relationship.  It's become a non-issue.
    
    Reminds me of a joke.
    
    Two Texans talking about their farms.  One says "My spread is so big it
    takes me all day to cross it in my truck."  Second one says "Yeah, I
    used to have a truck like that."
    
    Point being, most men have been in relationships where they didn't care
    if the woman stayed or left, slept with the football team or remained
    faithful.
    
    You can play it up as some kind of moral high ground, but frankly, I've
    been there, it's not the high ground, it's being with someone you just
    don't care about.
    
    I'm not saying your situation is this, I am saying many men have felt
    the way you feel, for different reasons than you cite.

	I believe that what my husband did or did not do in his prior
	relationships was not too much of my concern.  I was more concerned
	with how our relationship was/is going.  To me, his past relationships
	good or bad experiences, has taught him how to have them.  Also, I hope
	that he has "good" memories from his past relationships because these
	people were in his past (some still in his present) and his past is a
	part of him that makes him what he is today.


	ps

Strange reaction, Zarli.  No, it isn't 'moral high ground'; my experience 
isn't offered in comparison to someone else's.  It is a perspective on
dealing with the big green monster that I found useful in my life.  The
'different reasons' are the whole key.  fwiw, I've never been in such a
relationship as you describe, where I didn't care if the woman stayed or
left.  Sorry to hear you have; sounds rather bleak.

DougO

    One fella's "bleak" is another man's "liberating."

    Jealousy is different for different people....I can understand that
    someone can become jealous if you start talking about past lovers etc.
    
    I don't think it does any good for a relationship to dwell on the
    past....you've both had relationships and learned from them...you are
    where you are now.
    
    If for example you are trying to build a long term relationship based
    on trust....etc.It does no good to start talking about casual sex that
    you've had in the past.
    
    This is just a set-back.You would start saying to yourself is he/she
    has done that in the past....he/she can do it again.
    
    I've been dating my girlfriend/now wife for over eight years on and
    off....we have both had other relationships and i've learned a lot about
    jealousy and how to cope with it.I think anyone who had a serious
    relationship with someone would be lying if the y said they had never
    felt possessive or jealuos.
    
    
    Steve ;-)