Conference quark::mennotes

    Sure, it's your problem.  And you can bet he knows.  But who has been
    your coach for the past 36 years, though?  Where better to go with the
    question?  "Dad, I've got a problem, and I'd like to talk to you about
    it."
    
    Good luck.  I wish I'd had a chance to see my dad after he had his
    stroke, but I was flat on my back in hospital wheh it hit him, and he
    died 3500 miles away the day after I got out.
    
    -dick

>I feel I can handle the situation better, but how do I get past the problem
>of treating him differently? 

	My mother in law had a stroke about 7 years ago. My wife and I went
	through much the same. You have to treat him differently. That's 
	reality. Communication is much more difficult for both of you. Your
	father has to know this. It probably bothers him as much, if not more,
	than it bothers you. Sometimes you have to slow things down. Or repeat.
	It doesn't make you bad to do this. In fact, that you do shows that
	you care.

	Over time you will get used to the speech pattern change and the 
	differences in the facial expression. It will take time but if you
	look at your father with love and know that even though he looks a
	little different and talks a little different he's still your father.
	Things will work out. Remeber there was a time when you couldn't speak
	at all and looked a lot different than you do now. And your father
	probably loves you as much now as he did before you started to talk
	back to him. :-)

	We all go though changes. Some are harder to deal with than others.
	But people are adaptable especially when it comes to adapting to the 
	people we love.

	And don't write your father off yet. 7 years after her stroke my 67
	year old mother in law looks like she'll live a long time to come. Sure
	she hasn't recovered all that she had (the first 2 years were the worst)
	but she's stronger then she was just after the stroke. And she's still
	working on the speech and some days it's better than others. But she's
	still there for us. And we're still there for her.

			Alfred

	PS: Call if you want to talk. Sometimes that helps.

    re.0 Yeah, it's strange when you realize that your father is mortal, 
    and aging. My Dad had a heart attack two years ago, and major
    surgery last fall. Seeing him in a hospital bed, too weak to
    move, is just... I don't have a word for it. It's not scary,
    unless it's a fear of mortality. 
    
    When I was shoveling out his driveway, I kept looking for him
    to be shoveling too. I remember him clearing snow with ease.
    Now he stays inside...

    I lost my dad almost two years ago in June to cancer.  He had had it in
    its varying forms for 16 years, so you would think I would have had
    time to adjust to the fact that he wouldnt live forever, but it didn't
    work that way.  When he was diagnosed "inoperable and untreatable" the
    December before, (even his Dr. couldn't bring himself to say the word
    terminal)  I think I spent a few days crying alone even though I tried
    to maintain a positive attitude around him.   
    
    The big thing to remember is, the same person is inside that broken
    body.  He really is still the role model/strength/whatever you was him
    as before.  Pieces just may be a little more slow.  About my only
    advice is to try to treat him as much the same way as you always have,
    with the exception of mountain climbing or whatever.  If there is a
    support group available I would utilize it.  Sometimes it helps to know
    you aren't the only adult child going through this with a parent.  
    
    Meg  

    re:.0
    
    Are you sensing your own mortality?
    
    If so, from what I understand, that's quite the natural reaction when a
    man's father suffers any life-threatening trauma, like a stroke.

    
    
    Well physically yes he is different, but he is still your Dad.
    Treat him the same way.  Talk to him about how he feels about
    all of this.  He may very well need to talk about this with you
    but just doesnt know how?  
    
    My gramps is getting really bad with alzhiemers.  It's scarey
    to watch him deteriorate physically and emotionally.  I'm 
    afraid of the day he will no longer recognize me.  But the one
    thing that I've always done with him that my other family members
    don't is to treat him the same way I did before this happened.
    Oh sure there are some physical things that he just can't do anymore,
    but I try to let him if Nana or Mom aren't watching!!  
    They won't let him do anything, and it has really contributed to
    his decline (IMO).  
    
    Michele

    This is a guess; I apologize if I'm off-base, since this is obviously
    very important to you.
    
    I think one of the things that your father's stroke may be bringing
    home for you is that you have to be ready to do without a coach... and
    what you're finding out is that you ARE ready. But that if dad isn't
    coach anymore, then you have to establish a new relationship with him.
    The stroke is bringing you to this realization, perhaps in a painful
    way.
    
    First and foremost, find ways to show your appreciation for the
    coaching dad did. For example, every time that you do something on your
    own based on some of "dad's good advice" from the past, call him up and
    share with him that he's given you this solid foundation. Parents seem
    to LOVE it when we stand on our own, because it reflects well on
    them... especially when we share that with them. You may be worried
    that you don't need him anymore. Well, you're not really supposed to.
    But needing and loving are different. 
    
    The other thing you may try is talking about your interests, sharing
    neat things that happen in your life, and perhaps turning him on to
    some slightly more sedentary pursuits. (is there a Golf video game?)
    
    I think its important to make it clear that you love him and want him
    to live a long time, and continue to be someone special in your life,
    even if he can't do some of the things he used to do. But I think
    fathers also feel very good when their sons show strength and
    independence, things they've learned from dad. I agree with Michele -
    talk to him. But in a positive way. Tell him about the personal growth
    you're discovering from this situation. And then, talk to him about the
    reality of role-reversal. There may be things you can now do to help
    him. If you say it in the right way, he'll feel good. Tell him how much
    you want to see him "back in the swing of things", however HE wants to
    define that. 
    
    Independence may mean a great deal to him. Its one thing for you to no
    longer lean, but its another thing for HIM to have to lean. If he does
    need to do some leaning, work at offering support without making him
    uncomfortable. 
    
    FWIW, my dad is getting on in years. And he is very independent-minded.
    We 3 daughters have ideas about the 'distant future', if he loses his
    vision (there's glaucoma in my family) or has something else strike
    him. But for now, we love him, and keep him involved in our lives,
    leaning sometimes, but also showing off that he did a good job with his
    daughters. (He likes that!) 
    
    Above all, I wish you well with this transition. It sounds like there's
    a lot of love between you and your dad; I have every confidence that
    you will both weather these changes in your relationship, and come out
    on top of it all.

    
    	I had a shot of this about 6 years ago.  When I was three, my
    	Dad taught me to ski.  I skied with him all the time until after
    	I graduated High School.  5 years after I graduated, I took him
    	skiing.  At this point, I was skiing the way I remembered him
    	skiing, and he was skiing the way I used to ski with him, slow
    	and cautious.  This really blew my mind and his too.  
    
    	He taught me this very fun sport and I think of him whenever I 
    	go skiing.  Sometimes I think I ski for him...  He is now 68
    	and very active!  Still skis...  I send him postcards from all the
    	places I go.
    
    	I can also relate to calling and asking advice - even if you don't
    	really need it...  I do it.
    
    	mjf 

    
    It's natural it's different.
    
    It sounded like all these years he's been there for you.  It sounds
    like it might be time to change the focus ... for you to be there for
    him.
                                                                 
    What that means I have no idea and only one person knows ... your dad.
    ASK HIM!  Only he knows if he wants you to try to act as you always
    have ... or if he wants to attend more to his physical needs ... or
    more to his emotional needs.  IMO, it's time to do whatever the hell he
    wants ... and in a small way pay him back!
    
    It sounds like you got a great Dad ... good luck.
    
    Greg
     
                                            

    My dad died a few years ago when he was 85. In his later years I went
    through role reversal.  I had to step in and take of his needs during
    his old age. At first I was very uncomfortable with the tasks.  Looking
    back now, I am grateful for that time and those tasks because he
    sacrificed so much for me when I was needing caring and that was my
    turn to return kindness.
    
    Your dad never dies!  I have found that his character, teachings,
    attitudes, etc. return to me again and again. In my day to day living
    and even in my dreams I hear his voice, see his face.  It is as if he
    is still parenting me, only from the other side. The bond between
    familes does not end with death.  At least that is how I feel about it.
    
    I hope the above helps.
    
    Paul

I sometimes have a hard time talking with my father about physical deterioration.
He has retinitus pigmentosa, which is basically tunnel vision.  Now he has a
guide dog.  Sometimes it's hard for me to talk with him about it.  I also
notice I resist being as helpful as I can.  For example, if he's feeling the
table with his hands to find a book or something, I sometimes wait a few seconds
for him to find it himself.  If my mother or sister is there, they might grab
the book and place it in his hand.

Anyway, my advice to you is, *try* to talk with your dad about the physical
stuff about his stroke.  I bet once you start talking, things will get easier.

/Eric

    	Dad and I were never close. We were 1000 miles apart, etc.
    
    	Mom called me on 19 Dec 1990, at 10:30 PM. I knew as soon as
    	I heard her voice that something was terribly wrong. She said
    	"Your father and stepmother were in a terrible car accident
    	 this evening. Your dad was taken out by Life Flight to Dayton.
    	 He's in a coma." And remained in a coma for 43 days. Then,
    	mercifully, he died. Never regained consciousness.
    
    	Regardless of changes in the relationship, don't just assume
    	he or you will "always" be around. Enjoy each other while you
    	have the chance.
    
    	Scott

    I think it's important to take people at each stage of life as they
    are, and relish them for that. So, for those with older or ill parents,
    perhaps you can think of it as a chance to repay some of the care they
    gave you -- just be sure not to do it condescendingly. 
    
    And be sure to remember that the somewhat more physically infirm
    parent, is likely still growing and changing in intellectual ability,
    compassion, experience, etc, and from the new vantage point may still
    have a lot to offer.
    
    As for me, my father died suddenly at 58, of a freak accident in
    surgery gone awry.  I often yearn, 19 years later, to see what he would
    have been doing as an old man -- I know it would have been interesting.
    My mother, despite some serious illnesses that she has overcome, is
    incredibly active and alive and enjoying herself -- just back from a
    month in New Zealand!
    
    Kit

    
    Lots of touching stories in this topic.  This stuff gets to me.  Thanks
    for sharing the information, the feelings.  I'll write more later.
    

    I work in an Old Peoples Home on Sunday mornings. All of the residents
    are at least over 70 and almost all have some affliction like Senile
    Dymensia or Alzeheimers. A few of them are also physically disabled.
    
    When I first worked there, I didn't know how to talk to them, but
    watching them with other care assistants and their own visitors has
    told me no matter what is wrong with them, treat them as normal and
    dont wrap them up in cotton wool too much.
    
    I think, at least doing that, shows to the person that you accpet them
    as normal and it also gives them dignity and saves embarrassment. Of
    course, on a few occaions, this is not always possible.
    
    L. 

    re:0
    
    	You should take advantage of the time you can with your dad. It's
    been 21 years since I came home from Viet Nam to bury my dad. Before 
    I left the US he told me how proud he was of me. He had been sick with
    several dteriorating lung deseases and was out of work. His car broke
    down so I bought him a new one....that was in Oct. I was home for 2
    weeks and he and became closer in those two weeks than we had in the 21 
    previous years. I just expected him him to be there when I got back or
    I expected to be the one in the casket, not him. I was going back for
    my fourth and final tour. His death was sudden and he was an extremely
    young man at 52. He'd always been a happy man with simple wants. all he
    wanted to do was be able to go out to sea and fish one more time. 
    	I treated my father as a friend the last time I saw him and told
    him that I loved him the day I flew out. I believe to this day he knew
    that we never see each other again.......My memories of him are all
    good and even the bad ones return to me as humorous. 
    	I suggest that you become your dad's best friend. When the
    inevitable happens, you'll always feel warm about him, and even in the
    emptiness that will ensue, you'll feel good about him and yourself. 
    He probably wants to be the man you knew and it hurts him more than you
    that he can't be.......Let him know that he's no less to you now and
    that you expect nothing more than his friendship. 
    
    	I hope that you can overcome whatever obstacle you need to conquer.
    
    Ken

    I am VERY aware that the time is flying by and that my aging father 
    (78 years old) is not getting any younger nor will he be around for
    alot longer.  I would very much like to have a closer relationship
    with he and see him more often (he only lives 70 miles away).
    
    BUT HE is quite content with no more than a visit every six months
    or so.  He simply doesn't need or want a closer relationship with
    more frequent visits.
    
    So I watch the weeks and months roll by very aware that the OPPORTUNITY
    for visits will soon be gone.
    
    This is a switch, usually its the parents who want visits and the kids
    who are too 'busy'. With us its the other way around.
    
    I will have to try and remember that HE is satisified with the status
    quo and let that comfort me with the realization that he is happy with
    the situation.
    
    Jeff

    	Jeff,
    
    	Why not tell your dad what you told us. That time is short,
    	neither of you is getting any younger, and that you'd like
    	to make the most of the remaining years. If he says "Buzz
    	off," then at least you gave it your best shot.
    
    	Scott

    Good idea Scott, don't think I havn't thought of it and tried to
    impliment it.  My father won't admit to anyone else he is mortal,
    although to himSELF I am sure he thinks about it alot.  Because
    he can't/won't admit it to others if I bring up the subject:  "Hey
    Dad, why don't we get together more often neither of us is going to
    last forever?"  He will brush the topic off.
    
    Actually I do push a bit and visit more often than he would admit is
    optimum for him.  That is, he won't ASK me to visit, but if I do he
    seems pleased.  I do see him maybe every three months because I push
    rather than the six which is what it would work out to be if I didn't.
    
    I think that the best I can expect has been achieved already.  If I am
    gently insistent the visits we do have work out well.  I will not have
    to berate myself in the future for lack of effort on my part.  But
    that doesn't help much after the fact when the opportunities will be
    gone.
    
    Jeff

    re .20, I know what you mean.  My father died of a heart attack 16 yrs.
    ago next month, when he was 76, and I was 27.  We had fought a lot when
    I was a teenager, and had only really become friends after I got
    married when I was 23.  I truly didn't know how much he meant to me
    until he died, and I had to face the fact that I would never talk to
    him again, never argue politics with him again, never be able to pick
    all the strawberries I wanted from his yearly garden again.  There are
    so many things we sometimes take for granted regarding our parents, and
    then when they're gone it all comes flooding in.  I'd give a lot to be
    able to see him and talk to him again.  I'd like to be able to tell him
    what's happened in the world since he was here, and find out who he
    would have voted for last year for president, etc.  Even though
    sometimes in life he drove me crazy, and we had many arguments, I know
    I'll always miss him.
    
    My mother, now 80, has been in a nursing home for the past 6 yrs., ever
    since almost dying of a brain hemmorrage.  She is completely senile,
    due to brain damage from the stroke, and usually doesn't even know who
    I am when I visit.  It's like she's just a shell of a person.  The
    person I knew as my mother died when she had the stroke, and it's an
    eerie thing to have her body still around and living.  If anything it's
    more difficult to deal with than actual death.
    
    Lorna
    

    Thank you to all who took time to reply.
    
    I have alot to think about and plan.
    
    Regards
    JR