Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    ps: this includes other things we do, too.
    
    Like pretending to really LISTEN to the girl at the bar who spends
    about an hour telling  you about the last guy she dated, and what a
    shmuck he turned out to be, and pretend not to notice that her dress
    is really ... snug.

    Oh, you mean like join an SLAA group ?
    
    karl
    
    p.s. Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous

    I've been known to hang out in Cambridge bookstores and pretend to
    sympathize with the wimmin reading the self-help books, the ones
    they keep in the ever-popular "Fish Don't Need No Damn Bicycles!"
    section.
    
    But I keep meeting weirdos that way.
    
    What am I doing wrong?

    Yo, Z-Man, try the SF section ;-)

    re: .3
    
    you're being too picky.
    
    -Jody
    

.3>    But I keep meeting weirdos that way.
    
.3>    What am I doing wrong?

       Perhaps you forgot that "Birds of a feather flock together"...

    re .3
    	Remember that weirdos need love too.
    	
    	If you think that they're weird, you'd oughta hear what they think
    about you.
    						John
    

    Mikey-
    
    You slay me!
    
    Y.H.L.S.
    (refer to mail for translation! (*:)

    One of my former bosses was an absolute *master* at this....

    Once we were on a coast-to-coast flight .. Los Angeles to Washington,
    D.C ... both of us were in business suits and looked the epitome of
    professionalism.

    One of the flight attendants started a conversation with my traveling
    companion.  Very inconsequential ... "What takes you all to
    Washington?"

    My boss noticed her diamond earrings and a rather nice diamond on her
    hand and replied "We're diamond merchants on our way to Africa to do
    some buying".  Thud.

    She bought it - hook line and sinker.  She spent the night with him.  I
    spent the night at the Air Force Technical Applications Center trying
    to get some FORTRAN working.

    He was an absolute master at this .. there were times when he could be
    a diamond merchant in route to Africa ... a special assistant to the
    President of the United States .. a movie producer .. corporate
    president ... you name it .. whatever impressed the lady-of-the-moment,
    that's what he was.

    Not only that, but, he was *good* ... she should have been an actor.

    He was never "lonely" at night.

    I was a good boy.  Never played around.  Work-work-work.

    Studious_Bubba

 As the previous example shows, they lie. And it works.

    Assuming, for the sake of argument, that you don't always get huge
    gollops of overwhelmingly great sex out of it, doesn't putting up all
    that pretense get irritating or dull after a while?  
    
    For that matter, how overwhelmingly great is the sex going to be with
    someone that you're afraid to actually say anything truthful to?  Or do
    you make an exception and get honest when it comes to wanting her to
    don the Ronald Reagan rubber mask and talk dirty?
    
    Ray

re .9, .10

Maybe that's why I have such lousy luck - I'm a very poor liar.

Rich

    
    Me: Would you like to dance?
    She: Sorry I don't know how.
    Me: Would you like to learn?
    
    fred();

    Oh well, I seem to do OK arguing in a friendly fashion with the woman
    in the bar and not pretending to not notice her dress. 
    
    BTW, seeing how most of the guys in this conference communicate (sic),
    I _really_ doubt they let women do all the talking.
    
    Ray

    It's interesting that in one topic in this conference some men are
    complaining about the fact that it's possible for women to trick them
    into fatherhood, while in this topic some men are bragging about how
    *they* trick women into having sex.
    
    Lorna
    

    You noticed that, eh?
    
    		Steve

>    Assuming, for the sake of argument, that you don't always get huge
>    gollops of overwhelmingly great sex out of it, doesn't putting up all
>    that pretense get irritating or dull after a while?  

 I would not have been able to look myself in the eye if I had to lie
for sex. Hence I did without more often than not. Of course, it's tempting
to lie when you realize that none are interested in who or what you really are
because it's not exciting or mysterious enough. But I just could never do it.

 The Doctah

    Bravo, Doctah.

He's lying, of course.

    Hey, just because a guy whispers sweet "I love you's" into a woman's
    ear and changes his mind the next morning, doesn't mean he was lying
    the night before. 

    Mike

    Has anybody bought one of those unmanly mini-dogs, a.k.a. "doggettes,"
    to attract women?  You know, like a shitzu or a chihuahua.
    
    Women don't seem to care much for smalltalk with a guy walking a pit
    bull.
    
    I'm just afraid that the dogette would make too tasty a snack.
    
    See, there's some things even I won't do, just to meet women.

    
    those little yap doggies are too much. they look like they'd
    be vulnerable to unwanted advances from the local squirrels.

    re .20, yes it does.  I think one of the lowest things a man can do is
    say "I love you" just to get a piece of ass.  And some men wonder why some
    women are so cynical.  Fortunately, most guys over the age of 25 seem
    to know better.  In this day and age, no guy has to lie to get layed. 
    He just has to be attractive (to somebody).
    
    Lorna
    

    re:.22
    Yeah, well, Bob, I did say that even _I_ wouldn't go that far.
    
    re:.23
    Really?  So, do ya think I'm cute, Lorna?  ;')

    re .24, I think you're a wise guy.  :-)
    

 re: Gerald

>He's lying, of course.

 No, I am completely serious. (And no one that knows anything about me could 
tell you otherwise.)

 re: Lorna

>I think one of the lowest things a man can do is
>    say "I love you" just to get a piece of ass.

 Man are conditioned to do so by women. Men only do it because it works 
(apparently.)

>And some men wonder why some women are so cynical.

 If it didn't work, nobody would do it. What's in the mind of a woman who meets
a guy who tells her he loves and wants to have sex the first night they meet?
Does she really believe him? I have a tough time believing that anyone could
be so stupid.

    
    stupid?  to fall in love the first night you meet someone?
    I've done it several times.  Consider me a valid data point.
    
    I know, I know, I'm a sample of one.  But it does happen.  And most
    people want to believe they are lovable.....and you know the rest.
    
    human nature R us
    
    -Jody
    

    
    It's easy to lie to someone when you're telling them what they
    want to hear.  Never was very good at it myself (lying that is
    ;^) ).
    
    As for lying.  I often wondered who was lying to whom.  I found that 
    there was often a *big* gap in what a woman would _tell_ me she wantend
    in a man and what she would leave with come closing time.
    
    fred();

    > there was often a *big* gap in what a woman would _tell_ me she wantend
    > in a man and what she would leave with come closing time.
    
    You mean she left with you?   ;^)
    
    
    A guy I knew swore over and over he would never marry anyone but a 
    rich woman, athletic, with big boobs, who didn't smoke.  Guess who
    he married.  
    
    					- Vick

>    You mean she left with you?   ;^)
    
>    A guy I knew swore over and over he would never marry anyone but a 
>    rich woman, athletic, with big boobs, who didn't smoke.  Guess who
>    he married.  

 You? :^)

Martina Navratilova?

    re .29
    
>    You mean she left with you?   ;^)
    
    	Never was one to kiss & tell, Vick ;^).  But I did find out
    that a _lot_ of women would put up with just about anything for
    a good hot-oil massage ;^) ;^).
    
    fred();

>    stupid?  to fall in love the first night you meet someone?

 Not to fall in love with someone the first time you meet them. That
isn't stupid. But when someone claims that they have fallen in love with you
when you first have met them and you haven't really found out ANYTHING about
them but they start pushing you into the bedroom with the idea of consummating
your "relationship", well, let's just say that it falls into the category
of behavior to be aware of.

 But, of course, there's always _someone_ that we meet and become heavily
infatuated with and want to dive headlong into a relationship with and
it just seems like there's no good reason _not_ to hop into the sack with them.
The key, I guess, is to make a mental note of how often this happens, and how
you end up feeling the next day. If this keeps happening and the guys just
aren't ever calling you again, and you feel like crap and you're lonely, etc, 
perhaps a new behavior is in order...

    re .33, when I mentioned men telling women they love them, in order to
    get sex, I wasn't only talking about people who had just met.  It could
    happen with people who've known each other for awhile, too.
    
    Lorna
    

    I was in a magazine shop once when this woman walked in and went
    straight to the Scientific American.  Now, if there is a god and he
    wanted to create the perfect woman for me, near the top of the list of
    essentials is "must read Scientific American regularly" right below
    "must play the viola".  This narrows the field of search considerably.
    
    This woman was gorgeous, sharply dressed and was standing next to me
    reading a magazine for which I have had a subscription for almost 20
    years.  I knew that this was *the* woman.  She was sent to this
    magazine shop by fate to meet me.  I had read the magazine that she was
    leafing through so I glanced over and said in my best scientific
    authority voice - "The nervous system of a squid is really
    fascinating."  Expecting a conversation on cephalopod neurology to
    break out, I smiled with anticipation.
    
    She looked at me like I had pinecones growing out of my nostrils.  She
    left me standing there heart broken and a mere shadow of the man I was
    twenty seconds earlier.  I haven't heard from her since.
    
    Problem with studying physics and engineering - They never teach you
    how to meet women.

How did you know she played the viola?

    I didn't.  But it was the next topic I had lined up.

>>    leafing through so I glanced over and said in my best scientific
>>    authority voice - "The nervous system of a squid is really
>>    fascinating."  Expecting a conversation on cephalopod neurology to

	I like squid too, but this would seem to me to have been a big
	mistake.  In my quite humble opinion, there's nothing more attractive
	than a man who makes eye contact, but seems otherwise disinterested.

	Di

    I once held in my gas for a whole hour.
    
    I got her telephone number but ruined a perfectly good pair of briefs.

    >authority voice - "The nervous system of a squid is really
    >fascinating."  Expecting a conversation on cephalopod neurology to
    
    Next time try "The sex life of a squid is really fascinating."  It
    worked for me.
    					- Vick

    I once prepared a fantastic 7 course meal (Domino's pizza and a 6-pack)
    for a lady.  She was not impressed.  I was heartbroken.  And it was
    imported beer, too.

    I once pretended to enjoy myself through an entire performance of about
    seventy operatic arias by Sylvia Sass just to impress this woman who
    was an opera fan.  I resisted temptation for about three hours to jump
    up and yell, "Rock 'n Roll rules, baby!  Gimme some Motown jam, hot
    momma!"
    
    But I got my revenge when I took her to see a Kabuki play. 

re .41:

She was probably pro-choice.

    I used to live with my sister who is a model.  She would bring by her
    model friends so that her geekish big brother could get his thrill by
    being in the same room as the "lady in the Windex ad."
    
    I used to pretend to be interested in long conversations regarding
    eyeshadow and proper application of mousse.  I used to sit for hours
    politely nodding my head as the model du jour would go on about how
    difficult it is to match her colour with Clinique makeup, meantime, all
    I was doing was imagining what this woman would look like dressed in
    Cool Whip.
    
    I've matured since then and my tastes and demeaner have become more
    thoughtful.  Now I imagine them dressed in any non-processed dairy
    product.

    I once rented a Jaguar Sovereign for a class date which was supposed to
    be an evening on the town. I had it planned right out - dinner at
    Auberge du Pommierre, theatre, desert and drive along the lakefront in
    this pearl-white majestic vehicle.
    
    What actually happened was my date had an allergic reaction to the
    truffle soup ("You didn't tell me truffles were mushrooms!") and tossed
    her biscuits all over the leather and into the defrost vent of the Jag. 
    This would not have been so bad had she not chomped down on the shrimp
    appetizer.
    
    I spent the evening putting quarters in the parking metre outside the
    emergency ward of Toronto General then trying to explain to a member of
    Toronto's finest why I was cleaning out a Sovereign in an underground
    parking lot at two a.m. 

>          <<< Note 825.46 by BRADOR::HATASHITA "Hard wear engineer" >>>

You have truly lived an 'interesting' life!

    I was sweet-talked into participating in an aerobics class at the club
    I used to belong to.  Being a free weight brute whose idea of exercise
    is hefting steel, I always figured there was something swishy about a
    guy who considered it exercise to dress in spandex and a headband and
    prance around to music in $200 running shoes.  But, hey, if it
    impressed this woman...
    
    What it really did was impress upon this woman that I was a USDA
    Grade-A klutz.  I stood there and flapped my arms and raised my knees
    so far out of time with the rest of the class that I was asked to stop
    because I was throwing other people off.
    
    Never heard from her again, either.

    Yah, but didya ever use self-deprecating humor in a notesfile to
    score?  Works for me.  ;')

>	mistake.  In my quite humble opinion, there's nothing more attractive
>	than a man who makes eye contact, but seems otherwise disinterested.

Ah, then a healthy discussion of bee eyes would be better than squid :-).
It would certainly 'compound' the attractiveness :-).

>>Ah, then a healthy discussion of bee eyes would be better than squid :-).
>>It would certainly 'compound' the attractiveness :-).

	A cornea joke you'll never see.

	Di

>
>	A cornea joke you'll never see.
>

I suspect that we will shortly be asked to put a lid on it.

    20 lashes!

>
>    20 lashes!
>

Aye, Aye!

    You guys really have a lot of eyeballs.
    
    Ray

    
    
    You guys make me so blinkin' mad.
    
        GJD

 Go ahead. Make spectacles of yourselves. See if eye care.

>
> Go ahead. Make spectacles of yourselves. See if eye care.
>

.58 was a pupil of mine.

<seye>

    So, Mike, let us in on the secret: Who in here are you trying to
    impress?

    Last in a series of self deprecating notes:
    
    I once permitted a woman to "coife" my hair and I didn't show any
    outward turmoil with the result.  It went like this:
    
    	Her: "So, do you like it?"
    	Me:  "It's different."  <"OMIGAWD!  YOU CAN SEE MY SCALP!!">
    	Her: "But do you like it?"
    	Me:  "I feel unique." <"NO ONE ELSE IN THE WORLD IS DUMB ENOUGH TO
    	      HAVE BLUE HIGHLIGHTS IN BLACK HAIR, YOU BARBER FROM HELL!">
    	Her: "I saw the cut in a magazine."
     	Me:  "Oh yeah?"  <"WHAT MAGAZINE?  NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC?">
    	Her: "I think it suits your image."
    	Me:  "Thanks."  <"I HAVE THE IMAGE OF A VILLAGE IDIOT?">
    
    The problem was that when it came time for my next haircut I went back
    to Vince who applies the same principles to hair cutting as I do to
    hedge trimming and she caught on that I was less than impressed having my
    hair turned into an example of modern art.
    
    Never saw her again, either.

    re:.62
    
    Are you kiddin'?
    
    After the way Lorna shot me down, I'm through with women.

 Gentlemyn. Line forms at the left... ;^)

    Being celibate is easy.  Enjoying life at the same time is difficult!

    Women Meeting Lessons I Have Learned.
    
    Chapter 1
    
    The best way to meet women is to carry a baby around.  When you see an
    attractive lady in a restaurant flap the baby's arm in her general
    direction and if the lady is within earshot say something like, "Yes,
    she's a beautiful woman.  Say 'hello' to the lovely lady.  Blow a kiss
    to the cute lady over there for uncle Kris."  
    
    This technique is real good because the woman always starts the
    converstaion and 95% of the time she'll start the conversation with,
    "How old?", careful not to commit to the baby's gender.  To which you,
    as a witty and worldly guy with a terrific sense of humour, will
    respond with, "32 but I feel a lot younger."
    
    Unless the woman is made out of ice or hates men to begin with, she
    will notice that a) you're great with kids, b) you have a sense of
    humour.  If she fails to respond at all, then you're probably in Ottawa
    in which case your only hope is to get the lady drunk.

    Re .67: Caution - this technique will automatically select Women Who
    Like Babies (or, possibly, Women Who Hate Babies But Will Pretend To
    Like Them To Get A Man). If that's what you want, this is an excellent
    technique, but remember not to get testy later if she starts hinting
    about the two of you starting a family of your own... "But you're so
    _good_ with children!"
    
    There are quite a few Women Who Aren't Interested In Other People's
    Babies out there, and this technique will ensure that they give you a
    wide berth. ;-)
    
    -b

    re:.67
    
    A wad of $20s works better than a baby.

    But nobody asks how old a wad of 20s is.  And you're just as likely to
    attract the wrong gender with a wad of 20s.

    Yeah, but a wad of $20s never does doodie in its diaper.
    
    It also never drools all over your nice Italian suit (though some
    women do).

    I prefer women who don't drool.  - Vick

    Gee, with all the difficulty you straight guys have meeting
    potential lovers, not to mention the profoundly serious
    complications of accidental reproduction so vividly expounded
    upon in another string.....well I just gotta wonder if much of
    the antagonism directed at us gay guys ain't just a form of
    jealousy....
    
    :-)
    
    

    Heard a good one this morning; a friend reported that she was once
    invited up to a guy's house "to see the ghost". [She didn't go for it,
    quite; if you have a haunted-looking house, and/or a better pitch, your
    mileage may be better.]
    
    Personally, I'm only so-so about haunted houses; most of the reports of
    "authenticated" hauntings tend to be on the boring side - cold spots or
    random knockings, rather than "the wicked Squire riding his horse up
    the stairs". But I'm definitely attracted to haunted-looking guys. ;-)
    
    -b

    You mean that gay guys don't have their own problems when it comes to
    interaction with partners (potential or otherwise)?  I mean, doesn't it
    get confusing sorting out underwear in the morning.  For a straight guy
    it's simple - The frilly stuff is hers.

    Oh sure we got our problems.  Some start with the "Why is a cucumber
    better than a man" list.  But I've never had to use props (babies,
    cars, dogs, $$$$s) to get a date, and one pair of size 30 calvin klien 
    briefs is pretty much like any other.
    

    re:.73
    
    Meeting women is easy, it's keeping them that's hard.
    
    They only seem to want us for our bodies, they never care about our
    minds.
    
    It makes us feel cheap.

    RE: .77
    
    That I can relate too.....
    

    But Mikey, I *love* your mind, now please model 
    this nice little g-string I bought for you....
    
    YHLS,
    Christine

    OOOOOh! Mikey! You dog you! :) Sounds like fun and game time! Banked
    turns in the bedroom? :)

    I don't want to keep a woman.  I want to be a kept man.
    
    I have a problem with feeling cheap.
    
    It's been so long since I've had the opportunity.

    re .77, give it time, Mike.  In a few years, after you've let yourself
    go, it probably won't be a problem.  :-)
    
    I've seen very few men over 40 that a woman would want for their
    bodies.  :-(   (except Bruce on stage last month! *sigh*)
    
    Lorna
    

	Ok.  True confession time, here.

	When I was at the University of Florida, there was
	a requirement that folks entering with less than an A.A.
	take 3 ( gak ! ) semesters of phys ed.

	When I was forced to do this, I tried:

	a) karate
	b) archery
	c) judo

	and all were full.  The remaining sports were basketball,
	football, etc.  No thanks.

	"So," I says to myself, "How does a 120-lb'er survive this,
	and maybe have a bit of fun ?"

	I decided on

	Modern Dance.  Now, before those of you who know me collapse in
	hysterics, think about this...

	There I was, at 7 AM, in a gym room with 32  coeds ( sorry ) all 
	wearing leotards....doing stretches and stuff.

	Heck, I was the only guy in the class, danced approximately 
	like Ralph Cramden, but whoooeeee.  Nerdy as I was, girls
	came up to talk just because I was there.

	Beats facing locker-room Neanderthals after football practice!

	Steve H

.73> Gee, with all the difficulty you straight guys have meeting
.73> potential lovers....
               ^^^^^^
Er ... ah ... Greg ... check out the replies in this string.  I did
a search: of 72 prior notes only 9 used the word "love" - that's
slightly over 12%.  We're talking pure unadulterated, hard core, 100%
down and dirty ... S-E-X.

Where did you get the idea that "love" was involved?  Love has nothing
to do with sex.

Bubba

    Bubba, the title says 'women' not 'sex.' 

    Yeah.  Surely a note titled "Things guys do for sex" would end up in
    the bit bin real quick.

    Re: .84
    
    In today's terminology, "lover" often equals "sex partner."  I quote
    from the Curmudgeon's Dictionary:
    
    	love, n.  Once the noblest of emotions, described as being patient,
    	blind, and that which distinguishes man from beast.  Generally used
    	at present as a euphemism for lust.
    
    		What did your body say to mine
    		deep in velvet night's delight?
    
    			- William Rose Benet, "The Dust Which Is God"

    Indeed!  For what earthly reason would a guy want to meet a woman if
    not hoping for a sexual encounter?  :-)
    
    Mike

    re .88
    
    >   <<< Note 825.88 by SOLVIT::MSMITH "So, what does it all mean?" >>>

    >Indeed!  For what earthly reason would a guy want to meet a woman if
    >not hoping for a sexual encounter?  :-)
    
    As one wise man once said, "I'm not going to get married again.  I'm
    just going to find some woman I can't stand and buy her a house". 
    ;^)
    
    fred();
    

    I live to meet women.
    
    Ray

    And once you've met one...
    Could be an infinite loop. Or maybe a fence sitter...
    

>                            -< Hey Ray, What Next? >-
>
>    And once you've met one...
    
    Well, then she introduces me to her friends.
    
    There are always new women to meet, which explains how I've made it to
    33.
    
    Ray

    33 women?
    
    

    Good Lawd!  He be after Magic Johnson's title ....
    
    Bubba

    Heavens, if I only met one woman per year I'd be even more depressive
    than I am!
    
    "Card Tricks" Johnson

    I think everyone knew what I meant, Bubba.  :-)
    
    

    A couple of years after we got out of college with Computer Systems 
    degrees, my buddy and I came up with the idea of taking some night courses 
    -- like "Intro to Computing" or "BASIC Programming", just so we could meet
    women.  We figured there would be plenty of frustrated secretaries taking 
    classes to better themselves, and we could impress the heck out of them.
    
    I started dating someone about that time, so we didn't get to test our
    idea.  I still think it could have worked!
    
     -- Jeff

    Betcha the women you tried the line on would have twigged immediately. 
    The kind of guy who'd try that sort of gimmick is about as subtle as a
    brick, and most of the women I know are rather more subtle than that.
    
    -dick

    re.97 No, all the women are in the Accounting courses. Trust me >;-)

    
    
    SNARF!