Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    My husband and myself both work full-time.
    
    Responsibilities with us are definitely 50-50.
    
    This is what it's evolved to after our nine year relationship.
    
    HE washes and dries the clothes, I fold them.
    HE pays all the bills, but I am on a fixed spending amount.
    HE mows the front lawn, I mow the back.
    HE cleans the complete house on his night off from the gym, I keep it
    in semi-clean state for the rest of the time.
    I do ALL the cooking.  I prepare his two lunches, his egg whites (peel
    his eggs), snacks, beverages, cereal (pour it in bowl for him), etc.
    Whatever needs to get done to get us out the door in the morning.  I am
    completely happy with this, because I like things a certain way in the
    kitchen.  Like I load the dishwasher a certain way, and hate it when he
    puts stuff in unorganized like.
    I have forced myself lately to do more work around the house, and
    outside.  Only because I find myself asking him for EVERYTHING.  Gosh,
    he's spoiled me!
    
    What is most important is, we do for each other.  We discuss any issues
    we have with work, home, etc.  We have become best friends besides
    spouses.  I honestly can say I wouldn't want my life any other way.
    
    Brenda

    
    Not directed to anyone in particular, just random thoughts.
    
    What happens if I do 51% of the chores, and she does "only" 49%?.
    
    Should I sue her?.
    
    Why does it have to be so cut and dry (50/50 ratio)?.
    
    Why can't people just do for others??.
    
    I realize this might seem a little bit simplistic, but just think about it
    before you (generic you) comment on this.
    
    Art.

    
    I see your point about exactly 50/50 and you're right.  Who cares
    about 5-10 points difference?  It's when one person is doing
    everything but vacuuming that things get exhausting.  I'm starting
    to wonder if it isn't symbolic.  If people have equal emotional
    investment in a relationship and they love each other, then shouldn't
    they both want to do their part?  If on the other hand, one person 
    really doesn't have all that much emotion to invest, then they
    just don't care as much and aren't willing to pitch in on a day-to-day
    basis.  
    
    re: Brenda;  I'm glad to hear things are working so well in your 
    relationship.  That's the first good example I've ever heard of.
    It's quite heartening.
    
    Rachael

    RE .02
    
    No one in the world should have to FEEL OBLIGATED to do anything for
    anyone.  You do what makes you happy.  I have alot of people that say
    "Why do you do that for him?  Let him do it himself."  Well, it all
    boils down to IT MAKES ME HAPPY.  
    
    There is no law that states an exact percentage of what you should do
    for the other person.  If there were, I'm sure I wouldn't live by it!
    
    If someone ever told me I should do something because I am the wife, 
    they know what they can do with it.
    
    So, in ending...DO WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY.

    re .2, it doesn't really matter who does what.  All that counts is that
    both people are happy with the way it is.
    
    re .0, I answered this in =wn='s and don't feel like repeating it here. 
    :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    .5 I will second that! Its what works for you and your SO. It is not
    always the men the quit in a relationship. Women can quit too. Mine
    did. Stopped working, stopped talking, stopped, helping us work
    together on a dream. 
    
    It seems like this is to be a loaded, onesided Q&A
    period where men are to become the rasputians because some of them do
    not contribute to house hold clean and shine. Many of them make sure
    you car works, is clean, etc. Do outside painting, mowing, snow
    removal. I hope it aint so. 

    
    re .6
    
    I absolutely don't want this to be a "men are jerks" kind of survey.
    Truth be told, I think that in this day and age everybody is
    confused about their "roles" and that some men as well as some
    women, have trouble adjusting.  Conversly, some people adjust very
    well to change.  I focused on men because my husband is telling me
    that his lack of initiative to take on at least partial responsibility
    for our relationship, is because he's male.  I think that's a cop-out
    and I just wanted to get some answers from other men about how they
    feel about that.
    
    I hope this has made you understand my intentions better.  
    
    Rachael
    

    I am glad that this is not going to be 'men are jerks' discussion. I am
    getting tired of that line of discussion. I am sorry that you and your
    SO are not getting along. I agree that there is allot of incongruities
    and mixed messages and feel that he too should be helping yha if You
    are helping him. Case in point, when I went to night school the ex
    <wife at the time> carried a bigger portion of the work load cause it
    was for the good of the family unit. I told her that it was her turn
    next. She declined the offer, such is life. I would have made it work
    if she said yes. But as it stands now, I am a custodial dad, I press
    little girl(s) dress's, make lunchs, clean house, make cookies, and
    take my/our daughter to the beach. I don't think that there is anything
    wrong with that or me.

    
    
    After reading the previous notes "Times like these - I'm glad I'm
    single"
    
    

    But when you're a single, you end up doing 100% of everything.  
    
    Anyway, when I was a couple, it was fine....  Romance was probably
    actually more like 100%/100%, but the income majority swayed back and
    forth, and we naturally split most other duties:  I don't mind
    vacuuming but never notice how dirty the tub is getting; she hated
    doing dishes but got relaxed by cooking (which makes me tense); I keep
    track of events, she kept track of parties...
    
    Ray

    
    I guess the point I was trying to make in my .2, was that I do not
    keep track of how many "points' I have or she has. We both do what is
    best for our marriage to work. I am very lucky to have married the
    woman I have as my wife. We do for each other, that works for us.
    
    Of course this type of "arrangement" is not for everybody. We are so in
    tune with one another, we don't have to discuss who does what when. It
    is very hard to explain, all I know is that it works (for us).
    
    I re-read my .2 again, and this reply seems to be very simplistic too, my
    apologies for that, but that's how I feel.
    
    Art.

    Interesting question... I'd like to add that what seems to one person
    to be a 50/50 split may not seem so to the other.
    
    	When I was married, I did all the yard work, all of the exterior
    and interior maintenance and repairs, and some of the cleaning indoors. 
    My wife (ex now) thought that I should be doing half of the cleaning
    indoors.  She had a blind spot for outside work, somehow it just
    "didn't count" in figuring out chores.
    
    	Unfortunately, in our case, we _both_ hated housework...
    
    Larry
    who_now_has_someone_in_to_clean

    I'll answer .0 from the male side of the question. We've been married
    18 years......
    
    My wife is manager with a major supermarket chain.
    
    She does the balancing of the checkbook and the bills.
    I do most of the cooking.
    She does all wallpapering and stenciling
    I do all the repair work on the house.
    
    We share windows when we don't pay a contractor to do them.
    
    When school is in session:
    I do most of the laundry....I do 90% of the ironing.
    I do most of the housework...she does the stuff that makes the house
    look great.
    
    
    I do most of the mowing...she does the raking. I have gotten my oldest
    daughter into doing the lawn.
    
    I do the snow removal with the snowblower, the kids do the light stuff.
    
    I do cars...she absolutely refuses to have anything to do with them,
    including putting gas in the tank......
    
    I do the dump.
    
    She makes all of the social arrangements.
    She makes all of the telephone calls.
    
    I do the dog grooming and walking.
    
    We split shopping for groceries....
    
    
    I've become the kids' confidential advisor, she's the disciplinarian.
    This is the real role reversal. They come to me first, even our
    daughters who are 17 and 13. My son still goes to her first, but is
    beginning to change. My hours are more steady, hers more flexible.
    
    We're happy, the kids are happy......that's the important thing.
    
    You have to do what works for you. You have to be able to say "I hate
    doing laundry because I don't do it well!!! You do the laundry and I'll
    do the dishes....ok???"
    
    Ken

    
	romance/ relationship responsibilities -- equal 
	income -- wife earns subtantially more, works longer hours
	cleaning -- I do 90%
	paying bills -- I do all
	children/ pet chores & joys -- I do most (3 kids, no pets)
	organizing the social calender -- wife does most
    
    
    It's all been worked out (informally) over 11 years of marriage. We're not
    very organized people.
    
    There is a danger, however, in the "just do what makes you happy" idea
    expressed by a few here. If "doing what makes you happy" doesn't take
    into account making your spouse happy when that spouse's view of things
    differs from yours, you could be in for trouble. Classic example is
    housework. If you say "I do help with housework, but this level of
    messiness is acceptable to me" when it's not acceptable to spouse, you
    put spouse in position of giving in to you or cleaning up him/herself.
    
    Kit
    

       Each of us has a set of priorities that comes from our perspective
       of life.  If someone (male or female; this is not a gender issue)
       doesn't mind wearing wrinkled clothes, they will see no value
       spending their time ironing.  If two people are living together and
       one person's perspective states that "Good Girls/Boys don't relax
       until all the 'chores' are done, there will undoubtably be friction
       if the other person doesn't adhere to the RULES.

       Very few people in this country die of a disease caused by wrinkled
       clothing, yet I've met those that see unironed clothing as a sure
       sign that Satan has taken over some poor fool's soul.

       Rachael, I don't know you but I'd be willing to bet that if your
       husband had no clean clothing to wear and you told him that it was
       his problem that he would eventually wash some clothes.  The problem
       is probably more about frequency.  You would like him to (fill in)
       much more often than he would do it without you pointing out to him.
       His priorities are different than yours.  He would much rather watch
       the 'Dream Team' on TV than scrape dirty dishes.  You will not
       change him for any length of time.  You can only set up parameters
       that you can live with and accept the consequences.

       I don't mean to chastise you, Rachael, really I don't.  I hope I'm
       not coming across that way.  I'm just trying to inject some reality
       here.  I don't think it's a 'male' thing but if a woman is driving a
       car and the guy is going crazy he will most likely simply take over
       the responsibilities for driving.  She will not drive him nuts
       because he will often eliminate the situation by doing it himself.
       If dirty (fill in) doesn't bother him and you do it with only minor
       complaining then why change?

       patrick

    I tried that with my husband, Peter.  I stopped doing everything for
    him for awhile.  Stopped doing his laundry and folding it, stopped
    cleaning his bathroom, and picking up his dirty clothes from the
    bedroom floor.  Oh, he eventually got to things himself, but not
    without telling me what a selfish b*tch I am for cleaning the things
    that only *I* care about, and neglecting his.
    
    When someone is always used to someone else doing things for them, it
    isn't that easy to stop "cold turkey".  I suppose I never should have
    started, but that's the type of person I am.  I like things done when
    they need to be done and on an ongoing basis, not waiting until the
    place is trashed to clean it all up.
    
    It is a big relief not to have to worry about his stuff now (we are
    separated).
    

    
    re .15:
    
    I understand what you are saying and I think what has caused the
    mess that I'm in is that I've followed the philosophy of " if I care
    more about X than Jon does, then I should fix X more than Jon does".
    After all, it's not fair to make him to work to meet my needs, is it?
    Unfortunately, I've discovered that I care more about virtually 
    everything than he does.  At some point in any partnership, there must
    be compromise.  In addition, it seems to me that part of marriage is
    trying to meet, (or help your mate meet), their needs.  Once you adopt
    the philosophy of "me me me", there is no relationship - only one
    with yourself.
    
    And to my husband's credit, he's been Mr Helpful this past weekend. 
    He's even made jokes about forgetting how to clean cause he hadn't
    done it for so long.  Hopefully spirit of compromise will last.
    
    Rachael

re:         <<< Note 809.16 by JUPITR::KAGNO "Mom to the Wrecking Crew" >>>
                         -< Easier said than done... >-

    I tried that with my husband, Peter.  I stopped doing everything for
    him for awhile.  Stopped doing his laundry and folding it, stopped
    cleaning his bathroom, and picking up his dirty clothes from the
    bedroom floor.  Oh, he eventually got to things himself, but not
    without telling me what a selfish b*tch I am for cleaning the things
    that only *I* care about, and neglecting his.

       >> When I mentioned consequences this is what I was alluding to.<<
       
    When someone is always used to someone else doing things for them, it
    isn't that easy to stop "cold turkey".  I suppose I never should have
    started, but that's the type of person I am.  I like things done when
    they need to be done and on an ongoing basis, not waiting until the
    place is trashed to clean it all up.

       >>Wouldn't it be nice if you had to go to some sort of pre-marital
       counselling where they said "OK you two want to get married.  Who's
       responsibility is it to do -----?"<<
       
    It is a big relief not to have to worry about his stuff now (we are
    separated).

       >>Don't we both know that he will be washing his own clothes when
       he's on his own?  Please don't tell me that his mother is doing it
       for him even if it's true.  That just pisses me off sooooooo much. 
       Isn't it remarkable that he will do all those things now but
       wouldn't do them when you were together?  My brother is married to a
       woman who is very unhealthy due to smoking, over eating, no exercise
       etc.  He begs her to change.  She refuses.  She asked me once to
       tell my brother to back off.  I told her that I thought it was
       ironic that she wouldn't change for him, the man she loved, but if
       they got divorced she would change to satisfy a man she didn't even
       know (somebody new).<<

       patrick

    My wife generally cooks meals and does more housekeeping than I do.
    I generally do the laundry, mow the lawn, shovel the snow, take out
    the trash.  She usually puts our son (5 yrs old) to bed on weekends
    while I put him to bed during the week.  50 50?  I don't know.
    No one ever said marriage was a 50 50 proposition.  I think if the
    partners are looking at it like that they have the wrong attitude. 
    You have to be willing to just do what needs to be done to help
    make relationships work.
    
    In some areas (indoor) my wife takes the brunt of the load, outdoors
    I clearly do.  Also, house repairs fall on my shoulders.
    
    Jeff

    Re .19 and "house repairs fall on my shoulders":
    
    Gee, I have a house like that. 
    
    -b