Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    Art,
    
    Perhaps the hovercraft is full of eels.....

    
    I think it's an incorrect assumption that they may fail.  Clientele
    arrive through several methods.
    
    1.  personal referral - if they've done babysitting in the past, or
    done any kind of after school programs, this should be in place.
    
    2.  advertising - they should advertise an open-house and do a mailing
    to parents of children who are the age they will be doing daycare for.
    
    Professionalism is a must - if these people have any accredited
    programs for child education or development, that's a definite plus.  
    
    Unfortunately, an assumption may exist in some people's minds that
    women are better nurturers than men.  I think they may need to buck
    this stereotype.  The result may be their business grows more slowly,
    but as people grow accustomed to the concept, they may find they have a
    very vocal and loyal clientele.
    
    My mother ran a daycare center for 14 years, and truth be told daycare
    centers are going out of business over the past few years since mroe
    people are doing childcare in the home, and more people are unemployed
    and have time to care for their own children rather than sending them
    to daycare.  This has damaged the industry.  A new daycare center may
    find the climate for new clientele to be extremely poor.
    
    But advertising, open houses, sponsoring after-school connections with
    local schools, and spreading the word through the parents of their
    community, will probably help.
    
    -Jody
    

    I think the base not is alluding to the preconceived reputation that men
    are child molesting, rapist, who stock the darken alleys waiting for
    child or woman to pass to satisfy their sexual lustful desires.

    Funny, I have had no urges. How about the author of .0?

    They will fail because they will not be able to afford any liability
    insurance.
    
    Mike

I recently read a letter to one of the advice columnists from a man who had
undertaken a great deal of training in order to become a "nanny"; this man
loved to work with children and thought this would be an ideal occupation
for him.  However, nobody would hire him.  The usual reaction was "We want
a woman."

I don't see a solution to this problem.  Men, collectively, will likely
never be viewed as positively as women for the role of nurturing children.
It of course doesn't help when there are numerous celebrated cases of male
child-care owners being prosecuted for sexual molestation of their charges.
(That there are also women who engage in such crimes is rarely front-page
news.)

				Steve

    
    Re: .1 and .3
    
    I think you are reading between the lines, much too many things that I
    did not write.
    
    The article I read about this MR. MOM day care center suggested that it
    may fail. I did not say that I thought it was doomed. I was merely
    writing here what I read in the article (or what I can remember).
    
    Tell me, do you always see in people such dark motives?. Because, if
    you had asked me before, I could have told you that I was not alluding
    to any of the stuff you mentioned in .3
    
    Art.

    
    Re .2
    
    I am sorry if my base note sounded as if I was assuming that this
    particular business was doomed.
    
    I agree that this particular assumption is wrong.
    
    I guess I was just asking why somebody who wrote an article like this
    would assume that.
    
    
    Art.

I also think that the name of the business, "Mr. Mom", is in itself an
invitation to failure.  It implies that men are just a substitute for a
"real" mother, and if anyone saw the Michael Keaton movie of the same name,
their prejudices would be reinforced.

I wish the proprietors the best of luck, but I would be willing to bet that
they will be staring at empty rooms for a long time.

			Steve

    First, I am opolgising to Art. But as I re-read the note of .3 perhaps
    I didn't make myself too clear. I was trying to say that I am sure that
    Art doesn't hang out in dark alleys. Nor do I to satisfy those evil 
    desires. But I am sure that these things might be in the hearts and
    minds of the public at large in lew of things that have happened at
    daycare centers like,'Little Rascles' and such. 

    
    
    Re: .9
    
    Hi there,
    
    Thanks for your clarification. I agree with you.
    
    Art.

    There you go again George, generalizing.  
    
    All the base note said was that this daycare center was completely run 
    by men and asked for input about it's chances for success/failure.
    
    Where DO you come up with these awful notions?  
    
    FYI George - As far as I know men DO NOT have a "preconceived
    reputation" for being child molesting, rapists hiding in wait 
    for an innocent woman or child to pass by.  
    
    
    

    re .3, no urges at all?  :-)  (You said "I have had no urges" but I
    assume you mean no urges to lurk in dark alleys and attack unsuspecting
    women and children.  However, I'd feel sorry for you if you've had no
    urges at all!)
    
    I agree that the business (Mr. Mom) may fail because of preconceived
    ideas that the only reason men would want to take care of children is
    so they could abuse them in some way.  Society still seems to consider
    mothers as the primary caregivers.  If the guys are sincere, it's too
    bad this is the case.
    
    Lorna
    

    Perhaps you havent been reading much of these notes there Gail....:)
    Or sleeping or something of such..... :)

    I agree with the note about the misconception that men would only want
    to care for children for some wierd or lewd reason.  It's the
    sensastional cases, the small percent of the criminal, that we subject
    the many.
    
    Take a peek in the Parenting notesfile, and you will find that quite a
    few parents were suspicious of teenage boy babysitters. Why?
    
    Perhaps, these fellows could appeal to single parents that wanted male
    role models or male interaction with their sons or children (for those
    folks with inhibitions).  I would imagine that word of mouth would
    follow on the conduct or performance of the daycare center and thus
    business would either pick up or decrease based on those references.
    
    cindy

    
    I'm with .14
    
    In fact, they could draw a tremendous amount of support from people who
    know that men are capable of nurturing and loving children - single
    fathers with either partial or full custody (or as pointed out in .14
    perhaps single mothers looking for a positive male influence for their
    children would see it as a particularly good win also.)
    
    Tapping into local support groups for single fathers, or anything of
    that sort, might give them a primo customer base.
    
    -Jody
    

    
    	isn't that the premise of new businesses anyways?
    	find an open market (service demand) and meet that 
    	need.
    
    	i think the points made by .14 & .15 are viable options
    	that need to be considered.

    Question:  Other than age difference, what would be the difference
               between Mr. MOM Daycare and, say, Summer Camp?  
    
    Don (ex Camp counselor)

    .17 Association and preconceived reputations. Such as incidents that
    Little Rascals and other day cares have given and that, so far to date, 
    Summer Camps haven't gone to court in regards to a child molesting
    rap(s).
    
    

    
    	i think in order to run a day care operation would require 
    	more attention. they are dealing with children that are
    	practically dependent on their source of food, diaper 
    	change and all round attention.
    
    	in a summer camp the children are prone to socializing amongst
    	themselves, exploring and they're pretty much more independent from
    	their younger counterparts. i'm not saying they need less 
    	supervision, but its a different kind than with babies.
    	would be in

    Another issue is that children are much older in summer camps and the
    act of unwanted sex is lessened by age.

    
    	COLD SHOWER TIME, ::RAUH....
    	
    
    
    	that makes definitely more than 2 replies you put in dealing with
    	sex....

    Denise,
    
    Yuck Yuck..... The base note was looking for an answer why. And why
    was the reasons that you have pointed out.
    
    

    
    	what truly surprises me is that you manage to connect it to sex,
    	::RAUH.
    	i suppose if we discussed soap or something...there would be the
    	ultimate connection for you as well, right?
    
    	even when a lawyer `screws' an oponent's client there is still
    	that sexual connection, isn't there???

    re .20
    
    >>the act of unwanted sex is lessened by age?
    
    please explain?  (i question this because rape is "unwanted sex" and
    women of all ages have been raped.)  
    
    i don't think age has anything to do with this.  
                                         

    I _think_ the age thing means that there is a general perception that
    very young children (day-care age) are more likely to be preyed upon
    because perpetrators think the kids will be too ignorant and/or too
    scared to tell anyone. [Especially the ones too young to talk. Erk.] 
    
    I have no idea whether the incidence of the sexual abuse of children
    drops for older children - I'd be inclined to think not. But I doubt
    it'd be a useful technique for the Mr. Mom people to try and convince
    parents that their toddlers are safer in daycare than their
    10-year-olds are in the Boy Scouts or on the team bus or in the locker
    room or...
    
    Anyway, I can see why some people would be leery of an all-male
    day-care arrangement; it isn't the sort of thing one expects men to
    want to do, therefore they either can't be very good at it or they're
    perverted. [Much the same logic was used, I believe, when women first
    wanted to become nurses in the battlefield - "They couldn't possibly
    cope with the rigors of wartime injuries, and besides, what decent
    woman wants to take intimate personal care of a total stranger? There
    must be something wrong with them!"]
    
    -b

    	I agree with .25 that while most people don't find another person
    sexually interesting until *both* of them have at least got close to
    puberty, it is not a good marketing ploy to even mention sexual abuse.
    
    	For myself, I would enjoy it as a job. People are fairly boring
    before the age of about 4 months - you put food in at one end and it comes
    out the other, but after that they are interesting, and I would imagine
    that those less than 4 months would be a minority.
    
    	And before you ask, with three kids of my own and four nephews and
    nieces I can cope with everything except the breast-feeding.
    
    	Dave

    
    Re: .26
    
    Dave,
    
    I can see how you are qualified to take care of little ones.
    
    Now, a man with no children of his own, is he qualified to take care of
    children?.
    
    I make the question because it seems to me that woman are given the
    benefit of the doubt, when they do not have children of their own, and
    are part of a day care center environment. But it seems that is not
    true with men.
    
    I am not trying to judge anybody, I am just trying to learn about
    other people's perception.
    
    Art.                                                               

    re.27
    
    A man with no children of his own can certainly be qualified to take
    care of children.
    
    My ex-brother-in-law --father of none, older brother to 11-- had more
    child-care experience by the time he was 20 than most people get in a
    life-time.  OK, so he's an extreme case; but he's illustrative
    nonetheless.
    
    Men can learn how to care for children.  I imagine the learning process
    is much like what women experience. Learn by doing, once you have the
    will.
    
     Annie
    
    
    
    

    A minor child will have enough knowledge of saying no to older siblings
    or to adult molester.

    I am certainly surprised by the double talk that goes on in this file.
    First we are castrated by the wymin because we are oppressing men who
    rape, loot, and pilferage. Now when we make comments to support,
    castrated again! 

    
    In the immortal words of Chris Loid <Doc Brown in Back to the future>
    'Now that I have concord time travel, I am going to decade my life to
    the oldest mystery of all!"

    Fox: 'Whats that Doc?"

    Doc: 'Women!'

    re 790.25
    <I have no idea whether the incidence of the sexual abuse of children
    <drops for older children ...
    
    some info in 789.82
    
    
    				herb
    

    .24 
    O.K. who woke up Gail again?? She was doing fine sleeping, now she
    is awake......:)