Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    Lenny,
    
    	As said in in the NCP notes. You should by some stock before you
    get to court. Some stock in some mens underware and some stock in
    medical. Cause in the Peoples Republic of Mass. your gonna sh*t your
    shorts on an hourly basis and your going to need some rectal relief.
    
    You should try a legal mediator, or your attorney, or write a motion to
    shoot the ex. :)
    
    Good Luck
    George_who_has_certainly_been_there!

    
    	poor, ::RAUH...
    	you sound like you've been run through the wringer...and left
    	there.
    
    	inasmuch as i'm female who's gone through the process i can only
    	offer you some hope. 
    	i filed in N.H. and had to beat a custody thing. mediators are
    	cheaper but if you can't come to an agreement lawyers are the next
    	thing. 
    	what happened to me was that my X and i were told that it would 
    	be half of all our possessions (2 cars, 1 for me the other for him)
    	the house, (had to be sold with the profits split down the middle).
    	we could keep whatever we had taken out of the marital home. the X,
    	who wasn't too bright (editorial opinion) didn't want to sell the 
    	house....so he agreed to keep up the mortgage...which he couldn't on 
    	worker's comp. eventually the house was almost foreclosed on...but
    	due to a very quick thinking realtor we sold at a modest profit.
    	which was split down the middle and the mortgage payments he
    	couldn't make were added to my portion of the settlement.(from his
    	profits of sale)
    
    	he also gave up the custody fight at the time of the final hearing.
    	i wish he had of thought of that before sinking in $1200 in
    	guardian fees.
    	
    	all in all it was an equitable settlement, and i am not at all
    	bitter.
    	
    	
    	it was an equitable settlement
    

    Denise,
    
    	Sorry that you feel that way about it all. But Lenny is not in New
    Hampshire. Lives in Mass. But you gotta read. Yah know! Anyhow. Guess
    you should read somemore. 

    
    	::RAUH,
    
    	i don't want your sorrow for what i experienced. i merely pointed
    	out that there are GOOD sides to a divorce. i've seen your replies
    	in here when divorce was a point of discussion and you go in there
    	making generalized points that may or may not have affected you
    	while going through your divorce. i won't discount any of it, i 
    	can't in all honesty. what i'm trying to say is its NOT ALL BAD
    	FOR EVERYONE...ok?
    
    	my divorce didn't leave me bitter like yours did you....
    
    	thank gawd!!!

    Denise,
    	
    	I am happy for you that your not bitter about it. But then agian
    your not a man in divorce. Such is life. And I am not interested either
    in a battle of the keyboards.:)
    
    Peace.

    Denise,
    
    	Sorry, I don't think that I was asking for any sorrow. I was mearly
    pointing out that Lenny isn't in a good position for the outcome of 
    his divorce. And I am sorry you don't like my writing in this file. You
    could set next unseen if you wish. Its your call.

Ok, I'm a man who went through divorce (in NH) and am not bitter.  Is that
ok with you, George?  I was devastated when it happened, but I "came out the
other side".  Bitterness keeps the wounds open.

Anyway, Lenny's case is rather typical when the two people are angry at
each other, and at least one is determined to "punish" the other.  Sometimes
it's necessary to take a step back and determine what is really important
in life, getting as much "loot" as you can get away with, or severing the
ties and getting on in life.

Unfortunately, going before a judge means that the acrimony will be at its
peak and nobody will leave satisfied.  You may find that your wife will be
more agreeable to a resolution as the court date grows nearer.  All I can
suggest is to suggest to your wife that it would be better for everyone if
things can be agreed upon before seeing the judge.  You may want to rethink
your position as well.  Also, some judges will look at the items of
difference and turn it back to the couple, forcing them to iron it out
for themselves.

					Steve

    i hope that your lack of bitterness reflects on the equitability of the
    divorce.
    I have been priviledged to hear of some very inequitable divorces. I
    believe that some of the men here have been victims in some of them.
    
    				h

  	I don't know the whole story in Lenny's case. One thing
	I do know is that in Massachusetts the judges tend to
	lean towards the woman. It is dependant on how the
	marriage ended. Did he leave her?  Did he leave her for
	another woman? How many children did he walk out on ?
	Etc, etc, etc. (this is how the court looks at it)
	
	The judge will listen to the woman and usually glare
	at the man, and give the woman everything.


	kits

    
    	watch the mail, kits....this'll get you a commiserator for sure!
    

    Steve,
    
    Welp. I am happy for you too. I am not bitter either. Sh*t happens.
    But, agian. Your not living in Mass. Steve or Denise. And you haven't
    been to many fathers suport meetings and have seen or experience things
    that some of these men have gone through. So you can talk the talk, but
    when you have walk the walk your rethinking does become more cynical.
    Just cont your blessings that you have not gone through what some of
    these men are going through. 
    
    One last thing Steve. You should read Lennys note agian. 
    
    George

Re: .11

George, I read Lenny's note just fine.

I wouldn't even begin to suggest that there aren't men out there who have
been reamed in divorces.  I happened to be lucky.  But I don't believe 
living in the past is healthy, and that the only way one can begin to heal
is to try to put what's happened behind you.

I do know of cases in Mass. where there were a lot of disagreements, and
my comments reflected those.

				Steve

    .12
    
    Steve,
    
    	I have seen and have been in a Mass court that has handed a mans
    head on a tin platter to him. And have seen a few men who have been
    living in their cars. I am not living in some past bitterness. I am
    just telling you, those who have not been there, what they are looking
    at when they go to see the judge. Thats all. Why are you acting like an
    avenging angle upon me. I just was telling the truth. Sorry if I have
    ruffled some persons feathers insofar as not wanting to hear what
    really happens. But Lenny asked us for an honest opion and I gave it. 
    I don't see any of the such in your behalf here. Just a duel on the
    keyboards agian. Where the poney and the rope??? :) Perhaps it is you,
    Steve, who needs to cut the show boating.
    
    Peace

    
                    -< Where is the pony and the rope??:) >-
    
    	why? is there going to be a lynching????
    
    	;-) 
    	;-)
    	

Re: .13

Um, George, it's you who attacked my response to Lenny.

			Steve

    Read agian your reply Mr. Lionel. Thank you.

  	jeesh..sometimes you guys act like such girlies   :-)

	

    well, looks like I am in the same boat as the base noter.
    
    I have a pre-divorce conference at the end of the month.  I have been 
    paying 33% of my gross pay {for 2 kids}, +100. a week for alimony since 
    Sept. of 90!  The house is still intact, although I am now making the 
    payments and taking them out of support, as we almost got forclosed
    also.  We should be meeting with a judge Rotman, who is a woman...
    Should be interesting...

    
    	keep your chin up, your mind clear and go ye with god, bruce!!!
    
    	best of luck!
    
    	{HUGS}

    Yes, chin up and clear mind. Cause yha might not have either when you
    walk out.

    Well, to summarize, i scored a big win {if there is one}, in court
    yesterday.
    
    alimony - GONE
    support - Mass. minimum guidelines
    her lawyer - QUIT
    her - COUNSELING ORDERED
    kids - doctors note required if too sick to visit
    
    3 month evaluation for increasing visits...
    
    life is sweet!  I was told by the judges assistant and my lawyer to be
    prepared to scoop the kids when she breaks down.  It was very evident
    to all in attendance that this woman is sick.  Wish it could be easier,
    but the battle lines were drawn awhile ago...
    
    "wheels turning and it can't slow down"

    re .22
    
    I'll second that.  Good Job.
    
    fred():

    re.22
    One point for the good guys(pun intended)!
    
    -j

    and just maybe not all the cards are stacked against men...

	re:  ::SUSEL

	
    
>    life is sweet!  I was told by the judges assistant and my lawyer to be
>    prepared to scoop the kids when she breaks down.  It was very evident
>    to all in attendance that this woman is sick.  Wish it could be easier,
>    but the battle lines were drawn awhile ago...
 
	I only hope she gets the help that is needed. If she indeed
	has serious problems, this will affect the children while 
	they are with her, and if they leave her. 

	   
   
	kits

    .25 In this poker game, the cards are stacked and marked. The game is over
    when he has played that last card. Till then the games is still in
    play. Till then he still can get cleaned out. Or like many of us, pray
    we die with our eyes closed.