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Conference quark::mennotes-v1

Title:Topics Pertaining to Men
Notice:Archived V1 - Current file is QUARK::MENNOTES
Moderator:QUARK::LIONEL
Created:Fri Nov 07 1986
Last Modified:Tue Jan 26 1993
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:867
Total number of notes:32923

746.0. "Woman With a Goatee" by SALEM::KUPTON (Pasta Masta) Mon Feb 03 1992 15:51

    	I have to write this note. My son's mental state was a bit
    altered Friday. He's only just turned nine. 
    
    	A TV interview was taking place. It had to do with Gay/Lesbian
    activity in Boston. Some talk on gaybashing and attacks on gays and
    lesbians in the Boston area. 
    
    	The person on the screen had long reddish hair and a goatee. The
    goatee was scraggly, but fully hairy. No other facial hair was visible.
    The person had a nuetral voice, smooth. The person had all the demeanor
    of a man and appeared very man like. Then the angle of the camera
    changed and I could see this person had large breasts and was indeed a
    woman.........a subtitle gave her name as Laura or Lauren something, a 
    lesbian activist.
    
    	Needless to say, my son was taken back a few steps by the fact that
    a woman could and would grow a goatee. He thought it was fake, thought
    that she was a circus person or an actor. Being that I didn't feel like
    getting too overly involved in male/female hormones or genetics or
    sexual preferences discussion with him, I told him that she was part of
    the Boston underground like the Ninja Turtles and left it at that. He
    didn't seem to want to pursue it any further either. The next day he
    casually mentioned to his mother that a bearded lady was on TV the
    previous night. His mother asked if it was a cartoon, he said no, she
    asked if was a movie, he said no. She looked at me and I told her it
    was a news interview and explained what and who. My son had headed to
    the cellar by then and was no longer interested.
    
    	I'm wondering if I should let a sleeping dog lie or try to explain
    to him at a convenient time what the woman is and why (if that's 
    possible) she had a goatee...???
    
    	Anyone else see the interview??? Did your kids???
    
    Ken
    	
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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746.1inquiring mind wants to know?VMSSPT::NICHOLSconferences are like apple barrelsMon Feb 03 1992 15:563
    What is the woman?
    Why does she have a goatee?
    
746.2LEZAH::BOBBITTmegamorphosisMon Feb 03 1992 16:0310
    
    Some women have facial hair, fwiw.  It has to do with a high level of
    testosterone in her body, I think - and some women have this hormonal
    level naturally.  Or she could have been a transsexual in transition.  
    Or it could have been glued on with spirit gum.  
    
    It's hard to tell the exact reason why, but those are some options.
    
    -Jody
    
746.3one approachWMOIS::REINKE_Bseals and mergansersMon Feb 03 1992 16:1422
    Ken
    
    Well, one thing that you could say is that some women do have facial
    hair but they generally remove it (waxes, shaving, electrolysis etc).
    
    Of those women, some of them get tired of the bother (just like some
    men stop shaving and grow beards) and let their facial hair grow.
    
    Most women would feel uncomfortable about doing that because of how
    society regards facial hair on women (mention how surprised he was).
    However, some women make it a matter of pride not to look like what
    society says they should look like, but just look like their natural
    self. Such women chose not to wear makeup, curl their hair, or
    remove facial hair. 
    
    One of the nice things about being in the United States is that we
    allow people to have the freedom to look and dress in ways that
    they feel comfortable.
    
    etc.
    
    Bonnie
746.4STARCH::WHALENVague clouds of electrons tunneling through computer circuits and bouncing off of satelites.Mon Feb 03 1992 18:414
.3 is a great way to explain it.  It shows that idividualism is allowed and
respected in our society.

Rich
746.5CRONIC::SCHULERBuild a bridge and get over it.Mon Feb 03 1992 20:271
    I agree.  Terrific response, Bonnie.
746.6Hi, my name is Lynn ... wanna dance?HEYYOU::ZARLENGAmore sensitive than a rockMon Feb 03 1992 23:493
    Check the adam's apple, that'll tell you if it's a genetic male or
    female.  You learn to spot the cross-dressers once you do the Boston
    nightclub scene on a weekend.
746.7CSC32::GORTMAKERWhatsa Gort?Tue Feb 04 1992 03:525
    I knew a woman that had a moustache I never got used to it during
    the years I used to see her (security gaurd at a bank).
    
    -j
    
746.9STRATA::SANTANADrop a Load on'emTue Feb 04 1992 05:026
    It was probably a man, who's had a sex change... I've seen a few of 
    them and boy is it hard to tell, sometimes the only way to tell is
    the deep voice.... One time this one he/she had the looks of Cindy
    Crawford and the legs of Arnold Swartzennager(sp?) and the voice
    of james Earl Jones, funny I tell ya.
    
746.10PINALL::KENNEDYTue Feb 04 1992 06:2411
    I saw a woman on the bus here in Seattle and she had a beard on
    the underside of her chin and there was alot of hair.  A few months after
    I saw her she made the news by filing a lawsuit against the YWCA.  They
    fired her because she refused to shave her beard and underarm hair. 
    Her appearance caused alot of complaints from the customers.  I never
    did hear what the outcome of the lawsuit was.  But I can understand why
    the customers complained, it wasn't just the beard, but her overall
    appearance that was quite repulsive.  She was unkempt, dirty and her
    clothes were awful.  
    
    Karen
746.11As Maggie Dubois used to say, "Not necessarily."SMURF::SMURF::BINDERNanotyrannus - the roadrunner from hellTue Feb 04 1992 20:569
    Re: .6
    
    The Adam's apple won't give it away if it's a person undergoing a sex
    change.  One of the surgical procedures done to make such women more
    female in appearance is to trim the Adam's apple.  I've seen women I
    know used to be physically male, and it wasn't apparent that their
    throats had been touched surgically.
    
    -dick
746.12Ain't so.SMURF::SMURF::BINDERNanotyrannus - the roadrunner from hellTue Feb 04 1992 20:599
    Re: .4, re: .3
    
    You're only partially right in praising America's tolerance of
    individualism.  American society does not yet offer everyone the
    opportunity to be himself or herself.  When same-sex marriage is
    legalized, and when hets stop discriminating agasint gays, then maybe
    we could revisit the freedom we havee in the good ol' U. S. of A.
    
    -dick
746.13tell him the truth.CSC32::PITTTue Feb 04 1992 21:049
    
    
    re basenote.
    
    
    Just tell you son that there are ALOT of wierdos out there.....
    
    
    
746.14a bit harsh, I thinkDELNI::STHILAIREYou're on your own now, ClaireWed Feb 05 1992 19:5612
    re .13, I don' think that your answer *is* the truth.
    
    Who are you to call a woman a weirdo just because she has facial hair?
    
    I mean, I, personally, my thank whatever gods may be, that I don't have
    facial hair, but if some other woman doesn't mind having, it's fine
    with me, too.
    
    I'd save the "weirdo" term for mass murderers, cannibals, and such.
    
    Lorna