Conference quark::mennotes-v1

727.0. "Heroes(real,fictional) and their influence..." by PENUTS::RHAYES (Raymond F. Hayes, Jr. DTN 275-3628) Tue Jan 21 1992 19:21

	Rather than send another note off into tangential reality, we'll
	try to restart this topic under a new note. This is based on 
	part of 725.7 and 725.8. I've included the relevant portions below.

	This note could probably be pinned down to heroes; real, fictional,
	realistic, or otherwise.

	Ray Hayes

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Note 725.7              Parental influence on being a man                 7 of 8
PENUTS::RHAYES "Raymond F. Hayes, Jr. DTN 275-3628"  99 lines  21-JAN-1992 13:31
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	.
	.	
	.
	     I still find myself attempting to be the man "Doc Savage"
	was; incredibly brilliant and super strong, incapable of fatigue and
	resourceful in every situation; non-emotional, cool and calculating.
	I would not want to dump that on anyone but I find I still use those
	benchmarks on myself. I actually admire those qualities in women also
	so I'd probably mess all my kids up equally. As a child, I felt the 
	world was a lonely, cruel place where only the fittest survived.
	Independent and self-sufficient at all times. I have not had the 
	breakthrough some have had 're-parenting my inner child' so I would
	have to be careful parenting actual children.


	As an aside, I'm racking my brain trying to remember the pulp fiction
	character along the lines of Doc Savage, who had all his facial 
	muscles frozen in some duel with an enemy so he could no longer 
	express emotions with his face. Talk about a metaphor for society's
	expectations of men. Do you remember 'The Penetrator' (ex Green
	Beret, expert sharpshooter now in a battle against organized
	crime in America), 'The Destroyer' (same stuff, details about guns
	and armament didn't seem as good), the pulp series starring a martial 
	arts expert/ninja battling crime. At one point, I read these constantly.
	What heroes and role models for boys and men !!! I don't know if
        women read that type of pulp fiction ?
    
    	Ray Hayes
    
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Note 725.8              Parental influence on being a man                 8 of 8
GOOEY::RUST                                          27 lines  21-JAN-1992 14:18
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    Re .7: Hey, I was a _big_ "Destroyer" fan! Up through about book #50,
    when I lost energy, that is. I never thought of Remo, that pale piece
    of pig's ear, as a role model, but I named my cat "Chiun". ;-)
    
    Then again, I never consciously picked role models by gender-
    identification, possibly because it never occurred to me, and possibly
    because in the books I read there were so few female protagonists who
    seemed to be involved in activities that I thought were fun. I
    identified with Mowgli more than Alice-in-Wonderland, the Hardy Boys
    more than Nancy Drew and friends, and even the rather nasty heroes of
    Edgar Allen Poe more than his (sometimes equally nasty, but usually
    victimized) heroines. I wanted to do the rescuing, not be rescued; go
    on the quests, not be the object of one; slay the dragon - or *be* the
    dragon - rather than the helpless victim. (There are actually quite a
    few fairy tales, myths and legends in which women hold a great deal of
    power, but for some reason those didn't get nearly the same attention
    in the schools I went to as the male-as-hero-female-on-pedestal kind.)
    
    Hey, there's a question. Did any of you men ever admire and wish to
    emulate a particular woman, whether a live person or a fictional/
    mythical character? Are there any men out there who would rather have
    had Alice's adventures than Mowgli's, or Anne-of-Green-Gables' than Tom
    Sawyer's? I'm not asking if you ever wanted to _be_ female, just
    whether any female characters impressed you as being so gifted or
    clever or lucky or brave that you'd want to be like them...
    
    -b

    
                                                                               

    
    	In the 6th book of The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, The
    Unbeliever, a woman gets pulled into the alternate universe with him
    and eventually becomes his wife. I thought her character was incredible
    for her facets and power.
    
    	In the MIKO, by Ludbader(?), the woman who was the assassin was an 
    incredible character.
    
    	In the Lord of the Rings, the Elf Queen was as excellent a
    character as Gandalf.
    

>  	In the MIKO, by Ludbader(?), the woman who was the assassin was an 
>    incredible character.

	Eric V Lustbader - and yes that character was something else.

			Alfred

    World traveler, writer, diplomat extraordinair.
    
    Laura

    
    	mistress of the double entendre and shady innuendo...

    
    Wolfgang Goethe 
    
    Frankfurt has a major street named in his honour 
    

    
    She lived and ruled by her wits and walked the political tightrope 
    with consummate grace and skill.
    
    clb