Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    I always mean it.  I love women in my bed.

    RE:1	
    
    But do they (if there are any) like being in your bed
    
    Shocked

    
    I think some men are genuine, but I also think the word "love" has lost
    its true meaning to alot of people these days....
    
    -Lynn
    

    I'm going to ignore the sarcastic remarks from BROWNA, who is really
    lowering the tone of this conference.
    I've never had any. Errr, complaints, that is.
    I don't think in reality any men are genuine when they say "I love you"
    unless you've known them for ages.
    Saying it to someone you don't really know is not a lie, but a half
    truth.
    "I love you" (being in bed with me and doing loads of wriggly things).

    I have never `used' the word love to entice a woman into bed. But
    saying that I sometimes throw it around like confetti during and after
    sex. I also reply `I love you too' alot. Sometimes women proclaim `I
    love you' just to see if the man will say it.
    I reckon a woman who believes a bloke who says `I love you' after a
    week needs a check-up from the neck up. In my opinion women are more
    guilty of abusing the term than men.
    
    Tanzhir.

    
    
    
    
    My response is usually...."but will you love me tomorrow?"
    
    
    I highly doubt I'd hop in bed with a guy just because he said he loved
    me though.
    
    
    k

    
    	There all types of men....
    
    	Women too...
    
    	Some mean it as 'to sleep with', others mean it as 'emotionally
    	bonded to'. Only sure way to know is to talk about the feelings 
    	behind the words. Words are easy, feelings often not so. Especially 
    	for some men.
    
    	Then you can tackle how that 'love' translates into what kind of
    	relationship? :-) :-)
    
    	-Erik

    I`ve got a lovely bit of boiled spam for my tea tonight.
    
    Joe Strummer.
    

    Don't be so sexist.  What makes you presume I'm a man?
    
    Mrs. Katie Murphy
    Fulchester.

    RE:12
    
    Have you had a sex change then
    
    

    
    They say the answeris, "In his kiss"!
    
    Hmmm. . . . . .

    
    > They say the answeris, "In his kiss"!  
    
    	I personally feel there is a lot of truth to that proverb... the
    	kiss can show you much, especially when/if you notice a change. 
    
    	-Erik

    .0  Simple question, complex answer.  You can't get a simple yes or no,
    it all depends... some men really do love you, others BELIEVE they love
    you, and still others use it as a line to get you into bed.  As in 
    many important things in life, you have to judge for yourself depending
    on your own unique circumstances.
    
    Jeff

As moderator:

	Please do not proposition someone in this file, even in jest.  
	Also, do not use insulting or abusive language toward another 
	person in this file.

	Anyone who does so will get their notes deleted.

	Thank you.  Have a day.


							--WearyGer

	I don't think that men are any different than women in
	using the words "I love you".

	Love means different things to different people at
	different times. To one person, it may mean you make		
	him/her feel wonderful, to another it might mean a
	spiritual feeling or perhaps strictly physical 
	sensations.

	You can love today and hate tomorrow...or love
	tonight and like tomorrow.

	In my opinion..it's not the words. Anyone can say
	the words...it's what's in the heart that counts...
	and that is expressed without words.


	kits

    RE .0 Depends. Is it Friday night?
    Or saturday morning ?  :-)

A: Sometimes it's habit.

B: Sometimes it's a lie.

C: Sometimes it's the truth.

I've been married for going on 14 years now we have two children, son
11, daughter 9. ...  when those words our uttered at in our home, 
it's C.

Oh yea, one other thing...

The title of the base note..

	"Do Men Really Mean it"

Are we to conclude then that the author implies that women "ALWAYS"
mean it.

Being the perfect creatures that they are ;;; that is...
						{8^)

         I will say that some people seem to prefer a lie to the truth. 
    They openly dangle rewards for saying the right things and threaten
    that the wrong reply will result in solitude.  I fell for it once, but
    I was much younger then.
    
                                      Greg

    
    The difference between men and women when they use the "L" word is
    that to a woman it implies some kind of emotional commitment; to a
    man it simply says "I think you're terrific".
    
    					Jim

Be careful of over-generalizing.  Certainly not all men or all women think
one way or another.

			Steve

    Everyone who worries about over-generalizing is a nit.
    
    - Hoyt

    RE: .24
    
    Nah, it means a lot more than, "I think you're terrific" to me,
    Jim.  It may mean something "different" to me than it does to
    the woman that I say it to, but I don't go along with your
    statement, which seems like a sweeping generalization.
    
    What is "emotional commitment" anyway?  For me that means
    that I am willing to submit to emotions that take hold of me
    regarding my partner and that I'll exercise the will to 
    extend myself toward her and the relationship that encircles
    us.  I'll work at it, that is.  It's not all head work and
    not all heart work, but a mixture of the two.  I hope that
    I also think she's terrific (sometimes) and that she thinks
    that of me too.  Those may be the times when we're moved to say
    "I love you," but I said "I love you" last Saturday, and it
    didn't have anything to do with thinking she was terrific.
    It was a reassuring reminder (at the end of a long, tiring
    trip) to a woman who had spent the last 24 hours battling
    an intestinal bug.      
    
    BTW, it doesn't even have to mean the same thing every time
    I say it to her...
    
    bill

My therapist gave me the advice to always look up a word in the 
dictionary, if I run into situations when people expect widely varying 
things from a certain word or term.  He said that the word he most 
often has to look up for his clients is "love."  (Surprise, surprise.)

The definition is--I know it because he has recited it to me so 
often:  "An intense affection and concern for a person."  Nothing 
more, nothing less.  And the English major in me says that, if someone 
means something else or reads something else into it, then that person 
is either being inexplicit or is operating on assumptions (sloppiness, 
in either case).

Feel free to reject this advice, but I have gotten a lot of mileage 
out of it: Don't say "I love you" unless you mean "I have an intense 
affection and concern for you"; and, don't read anything into "I love 
you" other than that.

It forces me to be explicit about commitment:

	"I love you.  And I would like to get an agreement with you 
	 that we'll see each other more than once a week."
	
	"I love you.  And, I would like to be monogomous with you."

	"I love you.  And I would like to be your life partner."

	"I love you.  And I would like to raise children with you."


I think that a lot of folks run into problems when the second half of 
the phrases are assumed without them ever being spoken.

Also, if you think that people are giving you "I love you" as a line, 
ask yourself, "Is this person treating me like someone who has an 
intense affection and concern for me?"  


							--Gerry

    
    Hmm, I was going to reply to this but I just read .19
    
    Kits, again, you express yourself wonderfully and I couldn't
    agree more.
    
    						Hank

    re:0
    
    I have said it, and I have meant it.
    
    -roger
    

    re .28 gerry
    
    WOW!! what great advice!
    
    lee

    RE:22
    
    Just to add that i am not implying that women always mean what they
    say, but the majority of us would'nt say "i love you" unless we ment
    it. We have a heart.
    
    perfect creature

    re .28
    
    excellent answer - is there a "Hall of fame" somewhere?
    
    regards,
    Heinrich

re:32

Yeam, hearts!

The one thing that God decided us men don't need..,.

Geesh!!!!  What a world..

    RE:34
    
    What did God give you instead
    
    worried

 <<What did God give you instead
   

The power of brilliant deduciton.
 

>The power of brilliant deduciton.

The mind is a pea shooter.  Don't over-estimate its power.  It's meant
to work in conjunction with the body and "soul."   Alone or
disproportionately emphasized, it fails.   Just relfect on the last 
time that you "just knew" something that turned out to be vapor, myth, 
fabrication, or revisionist history...


							--Ger

<>The power of brilliant deduciton.


Dedcution is that the author of this note has got it out for men...

Me thinks she be better of sowing her seeds in Women notes.

>Dedcution is that the author of this note has got it out for men...
>
>Me thinks she be better of sowing her seeds in Women notes.

Now, now, we big He-Men don't have to go kicking out people who might 
disagree with us on men's issues, right?  I mean, we're man enough to 
counter anything that we disagree with, in a brilliant-and-gentlemanly 
manner.  Yes?


						--HeGayGer

    What is the node for womannotes please???
    
                              Thanks  Kat.

    RE: Ger  Brilliant - maybe.... Gentlemanly?  I thnik not, that word is
    right up there with "ladylike" pal...
    
    :-)
    
    re: .last
    
    DEDMEN::WOMANNOTES
    
    Jes kiddin... MOMCAT::WOMANNOTES-V3

    
    re .0
    
    I think its been tried once or twice...but not by me of course.
    
    Why would anyone ask such a question in all seriousness?
    
    (or expect honest answers?)
    
    -bob

    I use that line all the time......



    And after 23+ years of marriage, it sometimes works!


    	Vic    8^)

    	
   Why dont we get back to the subject instead of being sexist and 
    if there is anything that you do not like that i am saying why 
    dont you go into another option.
    	

If you have complaints about the way some other conference is run, please
take it to the moderators of that conference.  It is inappropriate to use
this conference as a "kangaroo court" for others.  I will return any further
replies along such lines.

Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.

				Steve - co-moderator

   <<Why dont we get back to the subject instead of being sexist and 
   <<if there is anything that you do not like that i am saying why 
   <<dont you go into another option.
    
It's not that I don't like it, it's simply that your notes have air of
negativity towrads men, (we have a heart, when we say we mean it..)

Generalizations like that, are going to spark response.  Sorry, that's
just women nature.  Seems to me one would assume that you could be
having some doubts about something, if that's true, this doesn't necessarily
mean that all realztions ships would carve the same image.

My point about women notes was not to suggest anyone leave the conference,
rather, one would probably get a better discussion goin there.

And I have to say, I OBJECT,,  I wasn't being sexist.  Don't throw words
around.

As moderator:

	The topic of "do men really mean it"...when they say "I love 
	you" is a valid topic for MENNOTES, because it involves men.
	Note that the topic is not, "Do women think that men really
	mean it when they say 'I love you.'"  I find suggestions
	of "You might get a better discussion going in WOMENNOTES"
	to be a polite way of trying to get someone to stop talking
	about a topic in a way that you don't want it discussed.

	It's the moderators' job to determine which discussions are
	or are not appropriate for this conference.  Please stop
	politely pressuring people to go to other files.  And, if you
	have a complaint about this, talk to Steve, Mike, and myself.

	Please return this back to the topic of "do men really mean 
	it..."

							--Gerry

    
    I suspect that if you think a man is using "I love you" to get you
    into bed that you should trust your instincts.  If he means what he
    says, time and patience should bear that out.
    
    Rich...
    

    I for one mean it when I tell someone I love them. These are words that
    dont come out easy with me. I've only said it to one person in my 
    life.
    

    Saying love is not really a difficult thing, but to me, I say it
    when I mean it.
    
    To say love to a girl will surely make her happy, but is it strong
    enough to lure her into bed? I wonder. May be in western countries
    are possible, but in Hong Kong it seems never.
    
    Men say love to girls always depends on the situations. When the
    girl ask you to say love, I think no men will refuse. But the man
    may not necessary mean it. I remember a Chinese song said "I was
    true at that moment, only I am changed now." That is, man say
    "Girl, I really love you" may not really mean he will love her long
    possible.
    
    One Chinese slang said "when the words come out, nothing can get
    it back."
    
    Mickwid.

    Folks,
              Me thinks,
    Depending on the emotional state/level of _THE PERSON_, when the
    words "I LOVE YOU" are spoken/felt (enjoyed mentally) fits into
    a scale of 1 to 10, or 1 to ?.
    
         Ya know like........................
    " I loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove you" !
                     or
    Who loves ya baby ?
    
    To _most_ people "LOVE" has very different meanings that apply to
    the individuals emotional makeup.
    
              WOW ! did i say all that ? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......
    
    LOVE, Dan 
    

    	I was speaking to a male acquaintance yesterday about this subject.
    	He had a different perspective on this than mine. He said...

    	"I only say 'I love you' when I'm truly feeling it. The problem is
    	that women always chastise men for never saying it enough. So the
    	male feels he has to say it even when he may not be feeling it
    	exactly at the moment. Puts himself on a schedule to say it - 'she
    	complains if I don't say it once a month, so <calendar scribble> I
    	have to plan to make sure it's said by then'."

    	It was a different look at part of the problem. I guess it follows
    	the "be careful what you ask for" lines...

    	For me, I just make sure I say when I'm feeling it, and don't keep
    	it inside. You know, after a really fun day together and you're
    	about to daze off to sleep as you're just thinking it. Sometimes I
    	let myself feel happy with that thought, but don't verbalize it to
    	my SO. At least I always love to hear that spontaneous thought which
    	seems to come from nowhere myself. I think "Wow. Maybe I really
    	*am* loved by this person! Hard to believe someone can actually 
    	love *me*." :-) :-)  

    	-Erik

>Note 533.28                   do men really mean it                     28 of 30
>
>The definition is--I know it because he has recited it to me so 
>often:  "An intense affection and concern for a person."  Nothing 
>more, nothing less.  And the English major in me says that, if someone 
>means something else or reads something else into it, then that person 
>is either being inexplicit or is operating on assumptions (sloppiness, 
>in either case).
>

I'll bite...

I disagree.

When me and my girlfriend were discussing what love meant (over about a week) I
looked Love up in a dictionary and there was about 10 different meaning
(although some were similar) .

I made a little book with one meaning per page and sent it to her, she thought
it was really cute and we went out together for a very long time...

Recently we saw each other (we're now _very_ good friends) and there is still
love between us, definitely different from when we were going out.

I agree with the idea of having a mutual understanding of the meaning though

	Paul.

>I agree with the idea of having a mutual understanding of the meaning though

Yes, I think that's the main point.  I was advocating being specific, 
talking about it all.


							--Ger

    My wife loves to hear the phrase "I love you"... in fact, she has
    formed a habit, first with her children and now with me (I think) of
    saying "I love you" whenever we part.  In the morning when we leave for
    work, when either of us go to the store, even when we are not leaving
    the area of the house... she says it. 
    
    I talked to her once about that.  If I recall correctly, her reason
    (for saying it whenever one of the family leaves) is so that the last
    thing that person hears is "I love you"... just in case something
    terrible should happen.  It's a little bizzar (sp?) I think, but
    understandable. 
    
    The thing is, she really DOES love a lot.  And is LOVED a lot, by us
    all.  And everytime she says it, you KNOW she means it!
    
    I say "I love you, too" a lot (so does she)... and I have occasionally
    wondered if saying it so often to her deminishes its meaning.  But, it
    doesn't seem to.  She *wants* to hear the words.  
    
    I show her my love in lots of other ways, too... flowers, cards, notes,
    cuddles and hugs, etc.  And we are both very "touchy/feely" towards
    each other.  So, from my standpoint, actually saying the words "I love
    you" and hearing them back is not all that important... because I KNOW
    how she feels, and she KNOWS how I feel, too.  
    
    So, we say it a lot at our house.  And we try to show it a lot, too. 
    And we TALK about everything.  
    
    tony

    I remember back in my younger days I went on a first date with a
    socially prominent, wealthy and really handsome guy.  We had a lovely
    afternoon and then he asked me to go to his house so I could meet his
    brother.  Was I naive!  We got there and he told me he loved me.  On
    the first date.  With the brother nowhere in sight.  Was I gullible or
    what?  He must have thought so.
    
    I just laughed and went home!  I cannot believe someone who had as much
    going for him would pull something like that!
    
    Tammi