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Conference quark::mennotes-v1

Title:Topics Pertaining to Men
Notice:Archived V1 - Current file is QUARK::MENNOTES
Moderator:QUARK::LIONEL
Created:Fri Nov 07 1986
Last Modified:Tue Jan 26 1993
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:867
Total number of notes:32923

396.0. "Free without Free Falling" by TLE::FISHER (Work that dream and love your life) Fri Dec 01 1989 18:09

I remember the first time I heard the Tom Petty song "Free Falling."  
The song first talks about a girl in sickeningly sweet terms ("she 
likes horses, and America, too!").  Then, he talks about what a bad 
boy he is for breaking her heart.

When he launched into the chorus of "Now, I'm free...," I thought to 
myself, "Oh, god.  Here's another macho song about how a male escaped 
the tyrany of commitment to a female."  I was really, really wrong.  
When he sang the next line of "...free falling," I thought that he 
might be on to something very interesting there.

The song sounds very "male," to me.  It seems to describe the seeming
contradiction that avoiding commitment may give an exhilerating rush
of freedom but that it also might generate the terror of an isolated
free fall into the dark. 

Can men be "free" without "free falling"?  Can men be free while
committed to a partner?  Is it "male" to want this freedom from family
ties, and, if it is, is it nature or nurture that makes us long to be
free?  Is it in our genes, or are we just trying to be the Marlboro Men 
we see on TV?


			--GerWhoKnowsHeThinksTooMuchAboutPopSongs
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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396.1Free at last!INTER::G_KNIGHTINGThinkingspeakingthinkingspeaking.Fri Dec 01 1989 20:0929
Can men be "free" without "free falling"?  Can men be free while
committed to a partner?

   >>> Yep, *I* think so.  It depends on your definition of freedom.  If
       freedom is the state of being without externally imposed restraints,
       whatcha gotta do is find yourself an SO who both appreciates and
       approves of you (difficult, but not impossible -- I know).  Someone
       like that will encourage and support rather than restrain you.  I'm
       assuming that "committed to a partner" means that you don't really
       want to fool around on the side, or run off somewhere just for the
       hell of it for six months at a time.

Is it "male" to want this freedom from family ties, and, if it is, is it
nature or nurture that makes us long to be free?

    >>> I'd say no.  Again, it depends on your definition of family "ties."
	If that tie is a strong connection, most men I know want that.  If
	it's a leash, most men I know (and most women) don't.

Is it in our genes, or are we just trying to be the Marlboro Men 
we see on TV?

    >>> Not me.  The thought of getting a tattoo makes me queasy.  (0,-)


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396.2WAHOO::LEVESQUEAs you merged, power surged- togetherFri Dec 01 1989 20:1048
     I have sort of ignored the song since I have little time for Tom Petty
    (most of the time, anyway). I will give it a listen next time.
    
>It seems to describe the seeming
>contradiction that avoiding commitment may give an exhilerating rush
>of freedom but that it also might generate the terror of an isolated
>free fall into the dark.             
    
     Sounds like the two sides of a coin.
    
>Can men be "free" without "free falling"?
    
    Some guys can no matter what. I think it comes from the confidence of
    knowing that the next relationship is just around the corner. Most of
    us can be free without free falling some of the time. Some can't ever
    be free without free falling. 
    
>Can men be free while committed to a partner?
    
    To an extent. I don't know anyone who is AS free when committed to
    another as when they have no one but themselves. Seems rather
    predictable.
    
>Is it "male" to want this freedom from family
>ties, and, if it is, is it nature or nurture that makes us long to be
>free?
    
    I'm not sure if it's male or human. The contradictory feelings brought
    about by wanting to run with the crowd while also wanting the stability
    and constancy of a family/SO can be tough to take at times. These
    feelings often give rise to unhealthy feelings of jealousy, restlessness
    and discomfit.
    
    In the end, you have to decide what you want more, I guess. 
    
>Is it in our genes, or are we just trying to be the Marlboro Men 
>we see on TV? 
    
    Actually, it seems to be very similar to the behavior exhibited by my 9
    month old daughter. She sees what she wants, and she tries to get it.
    And she gets very upset when she isn't allowed to have something she
    wants. In the same way, when you see what you want, it would be easy to
    just drop everything and chase after it. As adults we are supposed to
    realize that we can't get everything we want and that there are
    very real consequences to dropping everything. And often the
    consequences are felt most by those we love.
    
    The Doctah
396.3AV8OR::TATISTCHEFFLee TMon Dec 04 1989 23:469
    re .2  "human trait" rather than male per se
    
    i get the push-me-pull-you, too.  i've never had a partner about whom i
    had *no* mixed feelings (hence the never-married state).  so when it's
    over, i feel good not to be attached to someone with those scary flaws,
    and bad about not being attached to someone with those wonderful
    strengths.
    
    lt
396.4Genes ?? Jeans ... Attendance at parties ...WOODRO::EARLYBob Early CSS/NSG Dtn 264-6252Wed Jan 03 1990 16:0149
re: < Note 396.0 by TLE::FISHER "Work that dream and love your life" >

>...but that it  also might generate the terror of an isolated free fall
>into the dark. 

think about this line.    How can one "think" about machoism, and at the
same time conceive a machoistic personality as having any fears at all?

Well, i can. But thoughts don't always agree with reality, do they ?

>Can men be "free" without "free falling"?

Apply some political savvy.   In  the  sense that it is only (in theory)
free people who can choose to  be  slaves, likewise, it is only "single"
folks who can choose to be married  (in  theory).    But  ..    life  is
complex.    I have seen, and know, some  "single"  folks  who  are  more
enslaved by their living arrangements than many married folks  are  with
theirs.    Being  free  doesn't  necessarily  imply  loosenes,  nor does
"enslavement" necesarily  a  permanent  condition  (ie  Romania, Poland,
etc).

>Can men be free while committed to a partner?  

People are as  "free"  as  they  choose  to be.  Check the statistics on
divorce due to the  "other"  person  choosing  a  second  partner  while
legally committed to the first.

>Is it "male" to want this freedom from family ties, and, if it is, is it
>nature or nurture that makes us long to be free?  

Free ?  Shall we delve into semantics, or maintain what we beleive to be
the intent of the word "free" ?

Considering that I personally know more woman than men (1 to 0) who have
abandoned  their   families  (children),  I  do  not  beleive  it  is  a
characteristically male attribute to be "free".

>Is it in our genes, or are we just trying to be the Marlboro Men we see on TV?

Its not the  genes,  any more than fidelity is.  Acceptance or denial of
responsibilities is a learned trait, based on our understanding of what
those responsibilities are, and  how  we  choose to accept or deny their
existance.

>--GerWhoKnowsHeThinksTooMuchAboutPopSongs

Bob who should now better tooo.