Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    .1 sounds like a comercial for Aramis products.  (does he get a
    kickback?)
    
    As for where to start on the face (it does matter); start on one of the
    sides and work towards the edge of the mouth area, then do the other
    side, then the neck, and finally the chin and the area between the nose
    and mouth.  The reason for this order is that the hair immediately
    around the mouth is denser, and therefore needs more time to absorb
    moisture so that it can be cut easily.
    
    Take your time when you are shaving, you are more apt to cut yourself
    when you rush.

    The best place to shave is in the shower; I've been doing that for
    years and have yet to cut myself or leave my face raw.  Of course,
    it is a bit tough without a working mirror...
    
    Interestingly enough, someone has recently applied for a patent (I
    believe) on a mirror you can hang in the bathtub that won't fog.  Has a
    simple mechanism whereby the hot water flows behind the mirror, thus
    preventing/inhibiting condensation.  

    
    	Thanks for all the great practical advice!
        
    	My son is 18, but has an incredibly light beard so far (inherited
    	from his very fair-haired, fair-skinned father who had the same 
    	lack of beard at this age, too.)  
    
    	My son *is* beginning to see a small bit of growth now, so he has
    	begun to shave occasionally.  The questions in the basenote were
    	his.
    
    	Thanks again!

    Ditto on shaving in the shower.  You'll find that the shave is
    much more comfortable, several hours closer, faster, and your blades
    last through many more shaves.  
                                    
    I think Gillette blades and razors are superior to anything else
    available--particularly the newest blades with the lubricated strip.
    I'm not a fan of disposable razors because I have a pretty tough
    beard and I like the "heft" of a non-disposable razor handle--the
    disposables are too light.  Since I'm always trying things to make
    shaving easier, I've used several products--I've settled on the
    Trac II system. 
                  
    Many of the premium shaving creams are excellent, but expensive.
    I think the Edge products are about as good as you'll find, though,
    and they're a little more affordable.
                  
    And the Shower-tek mirror is great!  Now it (or a copy) is available
    for under $20.
             
    Peter
    

    SUZANNE,
    
    Real men use a sharpened ax. :')
    
    For a new shaver, a blade will work best.  As one gets older you
    might be able to go to an electric razor.  It depends upon how ones
    skin is.  A caution after changing blades.  I change blades about
    once every 2-4 weeks.  (because I'm lazy or don't have enough time
    or both) You need to push a little harder on a duller blade.  I
    have had a painful experience while learning this.  Use a downward
    motion while first shaving.  After a while you might want to shave
    upwards on your neck as it gives you a closer shave.  I use the
    cheapest shaving cream as long as it has aloe and lanolin in it.
    I find it isn't worth spending the extra bucks on the arimis.  If
    I want cologne, I use an aftershave.  Tell him good luck, and in
    the wintertime grow a beard.  This is when I take a vacation from
    shaving. :')
    
                                                 Mike

    
    Just get him some Good News throwaway razors. They are effective
    and require only a modest capital outlay. Also, he won't accidently
    cut his throat...
    
    -bob, who dry shaves while driving to work...

    re .10, RAH-
    
    >  -bob, who dry shaves while driving to work...
    
    Arghhh!  *Dry*?  In *this* traffic?  No *wonder* your notes are so
    scratchy sometimes!  Just the thought gives me a rash!
    
    DougO 

    
    re .10, bob...
    
    >  -bob, who dry shaves while driving to work...
    
    Do you still wear bits of paper on the cuts you give yourself ;^)
    
    			sherry

    No one has recommended a styptic pencil.  Are they useless for small
    cuts?
    
    Marge

Styptic pencils work, but they smart...

I've been using an electric razor since I was 15, and have never regretted
not using a blade.  But this is largely a matter of personal preference and
beard type.

					Steve

    Styptic pencils are agonizing.  Everyone  has to have one in their
    medicine cabinets though.  I think they come with all houses and
    apartments or something like that.:') 
    
    I like to alternate between an electric and a blade.  The blade
    does shave closer, but the electric is more comfortable and quicker.
    
                                             Mike

    
    I had a lot of trouble when I was young and started shaving.  My
    I had trouble with ingrown hairs and severe irritation, so I just never
    did it.  I've only shaved my whole face twice in the past 13 years,
    but I will definately consider all of your advice if I decide to start.
    
    Bob

    Mike
    	if a person doesn't stop bleeding in 45 minutes, with or without a
    bandaid they should see their doctor.
    
    Andy (with St Johns Ambulance Hat on)

    re: .17
    
    Mike, I though you might use a bandana, 'cause you're a brute!
    
    /p

    Having been through professional modeling school I was taught that
    after you take your shower, then put on the shaving cream/gel for
    3-5 minutes.  This gives time to moisturize your skin and you DO
    get a much closer shave.  An additional benefit might be what I
    do - after my shower I apply a small amount of Skin So Soft(Avon)
    and then apply my gel for 3-5 mins.  It works great!
    

    
    	Chainsaw Shaving Tips:
    
    	  	* Always shave in the shower
    		* Use twin-blade razors only, no pivoting heads
    		* Use soap insead of shaving creme
    		* Shave against the grain
    
    		* Never use electric razors... gas powered is much better
    		* Keep the chain clean, rinse after every shave
    		* Spray on cologne immediately after shaving to 
    		  disinfect all the cuts and staunch the bloodflow
    
    	- Greg

    
    I always end up cutting the hell out of myself unless I dry shave.
    
    But, a question: How to measure "grain" direction on a human face??

    re: .23 (Robert)
    
    	   How do you ascertain grain?  Well, since you're supposed
    	to be shaving in the shower (if you're following my other 
    	tips), that means no mirror, which means you do it by touch.
    	(After a while it becomes second nature.)
    
    	  Run your fingers in all directions on any given part of
    	the beard.  Whichever direction gives you the most 
    	resistance, I figure that has to be against the grain.
    
    	  Once you locate this direction, apply the shaving edge
    	of the saw, er, razor, and pull swiftly and certainly over
    	the bearded area six or seven times (or until the razor 
    	gets choked with flesh, whichever comes first).
    
      	- Greg
    

    	I tried something a bit different on Saturday. I washed my face
    with a hot soapy cloth and rinsed my face clean with hot water. I then
    took some Revlon skin moisturizer and applied it over my beard. Then
    I took a medium serving of shaving lather and applied it to the beard
    covered in the moisturizer. I waited a couple of minutes and used my
    Gillette disposable Plus razor and shaved. The added lubrication and
    moisture from the face cream made it easy to go against the grain. No
    cuts, no nicks, and the rinse following was refreshing. I then applied
    a handful of Canoe, which brought tears to my eyes. 8^)
    
    Ken 

>    	I tried something a bit different on Saturday. 

 Shaving?!! On saturday! Sheesh. ;-)

 The Doctah

    I had used an electric razor from the start, until about a year ago
    when my shaver broke down and I decided to switch to a blade.  Since no
    one had taught me how to use a blade, I simply taught myself, which no
    doubt means that I am using the wrong techniques.  I am therefore
    finding this discussion very educational.

    I did learn, the hard way, that under no circumstances should I shave
    against the grain, unless I want to bleed a lot.  So I had to discover,
    after much pain, in which direction the grain flowed on every section
    of my face and neck, which varies considerably, particularly on my
    neck.  For example, over my adam's apple it flows to the right; under
    my chin it flows down, to a certain point, and then below that it
    starts to flow upward.  As long as I shave with the grain, I am fine,
    but if I am not careful and I shave past the boundary where the grain
    flow switches, I am likely to cut myself at that point.

    As much of a nuisance as shaving is, if I grow a beard I then have to
    worry about keeping it trimmed.  Maybe I should just forget about it and
    go for the ZZ Top look.

    -- Mike

    
    Go for the ZZ top....
    
    Beards are Best

 I hate to shave. I only shave every other day, and I refuse to shave on the
weekends unless we are going out some place where I need to dress up.

 I find that shaving every day causes my skin to resemble hamburger since I
have the delightful quality of having tender skin and a tough beard.

 I always shave against the grain. Otherwise, it looks like I didn't shave.

 My wife wants me to grow a beard. Upkeep of a beard is nearly as much work
as shaving.

 You can't win. (Unless you go ZZ Top style)

 The Doctah

    Beard upkeep, from what I've noticed with my husband, is  less than
    shaving. He shaves his cheeks in the morning and his neck which is a
    lot less than the whole face and trims the beard every couple of weeks
    in the summer and about every month in the winter.
    
    Bonnie

    re: .-1
    
    Mike, it figures that you would say that.
    
    /p :-)

    The best advice for shaving:
    
    Be born an oriental.  No shadows on the chin, no hairy chest or shoulders.
    
    Hair does not grow on steel.
    
    
    Kris

    Ooh Kris,
    
    I like that...nice analogy!!

    yes, Kris, very stuble.

      Has anybody ever tried Noxema(sp?) I bought some for my
   skin and read the directions and they said that it was great
   for shaving. So I tried it, it works pretty good. Better than
   shaving cream I think.

   -Ed

    "If you want to know, ask the experts."
    
    "Use the right tool for the job."
    
    
    My husband HATES shaving.  (Doesn't everyone?)  He uses a razor and
    shaving cream at the sink.  And I hate it when he doesn't shave.  So we
    have a little problem here.
    
    I offered to buy him an electric razor, hoping this would make the task
    more palatable.  But he categorically rejected the idea.  I don't want
    to push it on him, but I think if he heard from other men that electric
    razors make the job easier, that he might be willing to consider it.
    
    So, the questions are:
    
    1.  Are electric razors easier than a standard blade?
    2.  Are they more comfortable?
    3.  Is there one brand that's outstanding?
    
    I also offered to buy him a shower mirror, but he nixed that, too.  I
    did read the earler opinions in favor of the shower mirror.
    
    Anybody have any advice?  (Yeah, I know.  Leave the poor guy alone. 
    But surely modern technology must be of some benefit. . .)
    
    thanks,
    Laura

    
    
    Whether an electric razor will be "better" or "easier" than a blade
    kind of depends on how the person's beard grows.  My beard (what there
    is of it!) tends to grow parallel to the skin, rather than
    perpendicular to the skin.  I've yet to find an electric razor that
    could handle my beard without lots of yanking and pulling.
    
    Personally, I make it a point to remember to be my shaving equipment
    with me to the health club where I sit in the steam room for about 15
    minutes and then shave -- I hardly ever cut myself when I shave this
    way.  Plus, I get a very close shave.
    
    	GJD

    
    Hi Laura,
    
    	At one time I had a Norelco. That's the one with three rotating
    blades (I think) and has xmas commercials showing santa riding one.
    It was probably the best shaving I've experienced being pain free,
    offering a good close shave, etc. I wore it out, and just never
    got around to replacing it....yet.
    
    If you get a chance, check one out next time you're shopping.
    
    						regards
    
    							Hank

    I shave with a blade.  Some things I've heard.  (1) always shave right
    after showering/bathing.  (2) cold water gives a closer shave than
    hot water (I always use hot water anyway).  (3) don't mix shaving with
    a safety razor and shaving with an electric (this always gives me
    ingrown whiskers).  I don't use electric because I love the fresh clean
    soft feeling of my face after I shave, and I've never been able to get
    that with an electric.  My father-in-law swears by his Remington
    Microscreen.
    					- Vick

    P.S.  I use the Gillette Sensor safety razor and swear by it.  It does
    a much better job than any other I've ever tried.
    							- Vick

Consumer Reports has done various reviews of razors, blade and electric.
They're worth looking into.

According to CU, electric users fell decidedly into two camps: rotary and
vibrating.   Neither type of shaver was shown to be markedly superior to
the other for all types of beards.

I've used both Remingtons and Norelcos, and currently use a Norelco, though
it's more because I went through Remingtons so quickly and the Norelcos seem
to last forever.  You can get a perfectly acceptable shave with either kind,
though the Norelcos are decidedly more difficult to clean.  However, I've
also made a personal decision to never give Victor Kiam, who owns Remington,
any of my business again, so if I chose to switch back to a vibrating
razor, I'd choose Braun, Eltron or some other brand.

It's really a matter of personal preference, and one that can't be decided
in advance.  Most men try several approaches to shaving before settling on
their "favorite".

				Steve

    back in the days when i shaved i tried electric razors... and never,
    never got a good shave... and i tried shaving cream (aerosol types) and
    found it messy.  i even got one of those electric warmer-uppers for the
    foam... 
    
    finally, about fifteen years ago i started using a brush and mug of
    shaving soap, and never looked back (until i grew my beard three years
    ago).  
    
    I recommend the brush (a good one will cost about 12 bucks) and a mug
    of shaving soap.  why?  because the lather is WET... really moist, and
    if you actually GET a lather, it means you've really worked it into
    your beard (ya gotta really smush the brush!) and it's whatever
    temperature you want to run the tap at... for me, hotter was better.
    
    Then I used disposable razors... they lasted as long as they lasted,
    and you didn't worry about it.  Really good shaves!
    
    but every man is different!
    
    
    t.

    I cut myself disgracefully (soft skin and shakey hands) and don't heal
    all that fast, so I tried electric for a while (Norelco, maybe?). I got
    massive razor burns and not as good a shave. Now I live with the cuts,
    and switch to "the next trendy blade" every time one shows up. It
    always does a good job 'til my skin figures it out.
    
    Best cream I've found is Noxema Brushless Medicated in a tube. Forget
    the aerosol stuff -- I might just as well sandpaper the hair off.
    
    Ray

I've used a mixture of blades over the years, but I got fed up with the hassle 
and mess.  When in the States I bought a top of the line Norelco which has a 
blade height adjuster on it.  It took about three weeks to adjust, but now it 
feels good, no rash, and if it doesn't cut as close as a blade then it's 
damned close.  I still use a blade once a week, after a really long hot shower 
when the whiskers have really been soaked and the bathroom's already a mess, 
but generally it's now electric for me.

    	I use a pair of scissors about once per month, and feel no
    discomfort at all.
    
    Problems :-
    When my wife rolls over in the night she sometimes ends up lying on my
    beard.
    She complains it tickles.
    I have been woken up by the kitten washing my beard in mistake for her
    tail.
    
    Advantages :-
    Apart from all of the obvious ones, my younger daughter likes it, and
    keeps trying to plait it.

>                      -< Why try to be so close shaven? >-
    
    'Cause I got one mutha-ugly beard. At best, if you squinted real hard,
    looked sideways, and held your hand in the way it might be as
    attractive as Basil Rathbone's. It's the only beard I've ever seen
    which makes the underlying chin look _smaller_.
    
    Ray

    After many different brands of blades, 2 Remingtons, 2 Norelco, and
    many different shaving creams over the years I have settled on
    Gillette Sensor and Edge GEL instead of shave cream.
    
    I also have found it much more pleasant to shave in the shower.
    
    Tom

    rea .37
    
    <* my husband HATES shaving. *>
    
    If he dislikes it THAT much, maybe you should spring for electrolysis.

    My youngest brother (22) asked me if I could help him solve his shaving
    problem.  Any advice you can give me to pass on to him will be greatly
    appreciated!
    
    He gets ingrown hairs when he shaves.  For some reason, after
    shaving the hairs on his neck grow back _underneath_ his skin.  These
    ingrown hairs become infected and make his jawline/neck look like
    it has a bad case of acne.  The resultant infections make the next
    shave quite unpleasant, and make him very self-conscious of his
    appearance.  He does not want to grow a beard, so not shaving is out of
    the question.
    
    I wondered if perhaps he's trying to get too close a shave?  That
    maybe, if he uses a single blade razor instead of double, he can avoid
    cutting off the hair beneath the skin's surface (thus avoiding ingrown
    hair)?
    
    I think I read somewhere that African American men are susceptible to
    this postshave ingrown-hair problem.  Can anyone verify this and pass
    on the solution/coping mechanism?
    
    Thanks much,
    
    Sue
                 

    See a dermatologist. 

    He *might* have better luck with an electric razor.
    
    Mike

    There is a medical condition which causes this exact problem, though I
    forget its name.
    
    Eric

    I have also read that African-American men are more prone to this
    problem than others.  There are facial depilitories available, but
    since I have never used these products, I have no idea about their
    effectiveness or their comfort.
    
    					andrew

    re <see a dermatologist>

    I had a roomate who was black and had this problem.  It's a condition
    which aflicts many men who have hair which grows in tight curls.  He
    had a lotion which he applied immediately after shaving which stung
    like hell but prevented the new growth from forming ingrown hair.  So
    there is something available for it.
    
    Best to have a naked face.  It's great being "facially hirsute
    challenged."

    RE: notes since .51
    
    Thank you for your responses.  I will pass your advice on to my
    brother.
    
    Sue

    	If he decides not to go to a dermatologist and wants to experiment
    a bit.......
    
    AFTER he's done shaving, apply a "HOT" cloth to the face. This will open
    the pores the hair openings. THEN use a high alcohol after shave NOT a 
    cologne. Most colognes have a bit of oil and will clog. The cheapee 
    after shaves have alot of alcohol and they burn like hell but they do
    help prevent the "bumps". If he's a real courageous type.....have him
    try straight rubbing alcohol on the face after he heats it. Once he's
    done it use and aqua velva or mennon or old spice after shave. Brut
    also has an after shave that has a heavy alcohol content but is hard to
    find. 
    
    Don't use creams or oils at all on that face.
    
    Ken

    sounds like a formula for a "real man test"  :-)
    
    ouch.  I can't even take hot water after a shave.
    
    ed