Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    And what was the reason for protesting Fathers day??
    that sounds a tad on the ignorant side to me.
    
    Fathers day is just another day for most men, so whats the big rukus?
    
    Is it that fathers day might in some twisted way impregnate the
    thought into childrens little minds that dad is important?
    perrish the thought!
    
    

    Mother's day was nationally recognized in 1910.  Father's day was
    not recognized as a national holiday until 1972.
    
    RE: Protest.  (sigh)
    
                                                   Mike

    Our family was together on father's day and we all had a great time.
    Happy fathers day to all.
    
           Mike

    My Dad's pretty far along with Alzheimer's so it was a real blessing to
    have him respond to my, "Happy Father's Day" with a cheerful, "Happy Kids
    Day!" :^)
    
    grins,
    Marge

  Nothing on this in the Globe, but the Herald ran a story on page 1.  
There are a couple of pictures, including one of a woman with a sign that 
reads "Mad at Dads," and another of a bookstore with smashed windows.
I've typed in the first few paragraphs of the article below.

  My comments (for what they're worth:  By now we're all pretty used to
hearing about these anti-porn "All Men Are Rapists" rallies, and as
repulsive as I find them, I recognize the right to assembly and free
speech.  I recognize that many of their points about domestic violence
against women and children are valid (although I think the link to
pornography is not as strong as they believe), and if they want to protest,
that's their right.  

  What does bother me about this, though, is linking these protests to 
Father's Day, which is an insult and a REAL slap in the face to all fathers 
everywhere - even those who are loving, sensitive, and nurturing to their
children.  Is Fatherhood a sin now?   My relationship with my child is MY 
business, thank you, and unless I bring up the subject, keep out of it.
I'm also bothered by the violence caused.  If you want to shut
these stores down, get a court order.  Without it, you're no better than
any other common vandal or looter.


=========================================================================
         (Reprinted from the Boston Herald, Monday 19 June, page 1)

          RAMPAGE ON ADULT BOOKSTORES FOLLOWS FATHER'S DAY PROTEST

                 (By Doreen Iudica and Andrea Estes)

            A group of militant feminists allegedly went on a rampage in 
the Combat Zone yesterday, vandalizing adult bookstores after a Father's 
Day rally protesting "patriarchal violence against women and children."
            
            The rally - held a Boston Common by a group of self-proclaimed 
"man haters" - drew about 75 women who heard organizers step up to a 
microphone and visciously lash out at men and fathers.

            One speaker, activist Gail Dines, decried men's First Amendment 
rights to publish sexually explicit materials, claiming there are four 
times as many adult bookstores in the country as McDonald's restaurants.

            "It's not a war between the sexes, but a war being waged by one 
sex against the other. Rage, battering and incest are the holy trinity of 
patriarchy," Dines said angrily.

            At 2:30 P.M., shortly after the noon rally broke up, 50 to 100
women hoisting signs and chanting "save our sisters" stormed three adult 
bookstores along lower Washington Street, overturning video cases and book 
racks, throwing magazines onto the ground and smashing windows, owners 
said.

            etc.  (there's more detail on police activities, interviews
                   with store owners, and so on).

======================================================================

    Gee thanks for printing that for us. (honestly)
    No I can go home and feel good about beating my wife and children.
    After all, isnt that what us great whites do?

    	Well, my son and I got to talk on the phone to my Dad yesterday
    	(my parents live in Hawaii and are retired now.)  It was wonderful
    	-- my Dad is the greatest!
    
    	Happy Fathers' Day (a day late) to all of the Dads here!
    

    I had a very nice Father's Day. I spent the day at my parents place at
    the beach (Seabrook). We had four generations there. It was a very nice
    afternoon.
    
    re: feminist hoodlums
    
    The man haters that went on their little rampage really make me shake
    my head. I think their actions do more to damage feminism than they do
    to help. They should all get a nice sentence of 100 hours of community
    service or something- they probably wont even be charged. What a bunch
    of jerks with nothing better to do...
    
    The  Doctah

    A belated but a Happy Dad's day to all...
    
    My son's, SO and I had a great day yesterday, we went to breakfast,
    took a long walk, and swam together.  We also had the pleasure to
    see a fathers day Rainbow...a real one, it was beautiful and cap'ed
    our day wonderfuly.

My son and I went to visit my father for the weekend, so we had a 
three-generation Father's Day.  It was delightful to see grandfather
and grandson playing together.

Over that weekend, I was watching a news show about children who have died
from illnesses, due to the parents being unable to afford the necessary
medical care.  I remembered Tommy lying sick in the hospital a year and
a half ago, feeling so helpless because nobody knew what was wrong with him.
I realized I was so incredibly lucky that it ended up being something
completely treatable (Kawasaki Syndrome), and he was soon again a healthy
and happy boy.  I went over to him and gave him an extra set of hugs,
and just held him while I thought about how fortunate I was to be his Daddy.

It saddens me to see so many fathers out there who are either shut out of
their children's lives, or choose not to become involved.  Their loss is
immeasurable.

					Steve

I wish the best to all the father's out there.  Belated Happy Father's 
Day!


							--Gerry

    Just to add some diversity, and to keep this topic from looking
    like a Hallmark card or a page from the Hearld ... I'll add my two
    cents worth. 
    
    Happy Father's day is a sad dad for me.  I morn the dad that was
    never there for me when I was growing up.  Oh he's alive today,
    but he might as well as be dead.  Today I can label my feelings
    toward my dad with two words - anger, and pity.  I'm angry that
    he wasn't there for me, and I feel pity because I know now he has
    a desease that prevents him from being himself, alcoholism, a desease
    that I've reluctantly inherited too.  Now that I'm in recovery I
    have to face up to my feelings, and talk about them (like now),
    I can't numb them with booze anymore.  I almost sent him a card
    this year to say stuff I wanted to say - but I realized the ammount
    of damage it would cause would out-way what ever releif it would
    bring me.  So for the time being it will be as it always has been
    - slience, just as it is between him and his father.
    
    I feel most readers would say this reply belongs in another conference
    and I would agree.  But I think it belongs here too, if not to make
    the discussion more well rounded ... it may just serve as food for
    thought for some of you dads out there who are like my dad. 
    
    My father's absents in my childhood has contributed to many of my
    current "issues" besides my desease - such as inability to have close, 
    intimate male friends (male bonding), problems with authority figures,
    and self discipline problems, etc ... so beware dads!  And to all of
    you who do have great relationships - congradulations!  I truly
    wish you continued happiness!     
                                      
    Dave                              
                                      
                                      

RE .12

Hi Dave,

Thanks for entering that.  (I feel less lonely.)

I also have an alcoholic father whom I haven't seen in 5 years or so.  
Father's Day also brings me a lot of pain.  I can relate.

The good thing is that I really enjoyed reading the replies in this 
topic that were positive.  I enjoy knowing that "fatherhood" can work, 
because, in my immediate failure, it didn't work.  I firmly believe in 
being realistic about negative things in my life, but the other 
replies in this note have helped me to keep the larger perspective in 
mind.  

I thank everyone for both painful and joyful memories shared in this 
note.


						--Gerry

    Thanks Gerry.
    
    After soon after I entered my reply I had two thoughts.  First -
    it was a bit ironic that my first activity in this file (about and
    for men) was to share some deep negative pain ... doesn't this guy
    know how to relate in a nice way to guys!  Secondly, I wanted to
    delete it because I deep down inside feel ashamed that I don't have
    a good Dad and why should the world know that ... 
    
    But they should, and I do, and that's that.
    
    thanks again for responding ...
    
    Dave

	Well, Fathers Day is coming and I was wondering how some
	of you fathers handle it. I'll explain. My father is still
	alive and I myself have two boys. Every fathers day, thus far,
	I've made it a point to visit my dad. He lives just over an hour
	away. This year though, I think I'd really like a lazy
	day for myself, a day to spend around the house just taking it
	easy for a change. A day like that would indeed be unusual
	and enjoyable as I always seem to be busy, whether I'm working
	on the house, mowing, taking care of the boys, helping
	my wife, whatever. 

	What I'm dealing with, I suppose is guilt. 
	How do you handle it Fathers day?
    
    	And of course, though a little early, a happy fathers day
    	to all. May we someday be appreciated.
    
    							Hank 

Several years ago my then wife and I moved from California to Colorado.  For
a period of about 4-5 years about all I could do was phone my father and wish
him a happy father's day.  I'd send him a new pipe, or shirt or something, but
I couldn't be there with him.  

About 6-7 years ago my sister graduated from high school and I traveled from
California to attend.  My father was too ill (heart disease) to attend.  But
as it turned out I was there for Father's day for the first time in a while.
I bought him real nice flannel shirt which despite being June in California,
with his progressing illness, he was cold all the time.  I spent the day with
him just talking and watching a baseball game on TV and we had a nice supper
and all.  The next day he felt well enough to go with my sister to drive me
to the train station.  It was the last time I was to see him alive, and he
died wearing the shirt I had given him.

Today, of course, I would give anything to be able to spend a father's day
with him.  But I'm thankful for the final one that I did.

I know the feeling of wanting to lay back and take it easy..I've spent many
a father's day doing that  (many non-father's days also).  My suggestion to
-1 would be go and spend it with your father, and maybe take your boys with 
you...


This year I'll have my kids with me and I am looking forward to it greatly.
Though I can see them whenever I want (they live with their mother about 
15 miles away) I look forward to having them this weekend.  Even though I'm
involved in a financial/legal mess with my oldest son and am quite angry with
him about it, I still look forward to being with him and my other 2 sons. 



Jim

    I have an unusual situation. My father doesn't CARE about Fathers Day.
    He views it as a commercial put on and is indifferent.  However, if he
    did care and I was in the earlier noters situation who wanted a "day
    off" I would make sure I called or sent him something and made it a
    point to let him know that we were offically moving Fathers Day to
    a day which better suited us both.  Then I would have a special day
    with him at another time.  Jeff

    	re .17
    
    	I agree with your father.  Why do we need a special day to
    	remember, (or discover, for that matter) our parents?  Because
    	Hallmark and ATT say so.  Why can't I tell my father on Sept
    	26 (no special day) that I love him?  Why do we need a special
    	day to remember the earth and rededicate ourselves to conservation?
    	Why are we only generous to charities at Christmas time?
    
    	Can't we all think for ourselves?
    
    	What do I want for Father's day this year?  For the kids to
    	leave the house and give me some peace and quiet.  :^)
    
    	Joe Oppelt

    reg  .17
    
    move the day  jeff?? Thats funny..  your joking though  right?
    
    
    Jim  [read on , finally replying..]
    

    I'm only able to call my step-father this Father's Day...he lives in
    California, and I'm in MA.  just too far to go.  So, that's what I'll
    do, again, this year...and we'll have a nice talk, like we always do. 
    He knows I love him...we see each other quite often, despite the
    distance, and I know how he feels towards me.
    
    But, in another sense, this Father's Day is different for me.  I am
    divorced, and my own kids live with their mom in Texas.  Lately, the
    relationship between the ex and I has been very strained (so what else
    is new?), but now, the kids won't talk to me.  At least, the last time
    I called (I call nearly every week), they refused to come to the
    telephone to talk.  Whatever the current attitude of their mom is, is
    clearly reflected in their attitude towards me. 
    
    So, I wonder if my kids will call me on Father's Day?  I shouldn't be
    concerned, I suppose, but I am.  And, I may be setting myself up to be
    hurt if they don't.
    
    wondering

    
    I'm another who doesn't believe in Father's day for myself. I don't
    think I have been home more than three times in the past 15 years;
    usually off doing some reserve training or fishing.
    
    I have many Father's days each year when either my wife or son do
    something to make me appreciate the fact that I am a father, so
    picking a specific day doesn't make it any different. However, my
    wife always buys me something anyway.
    
    I think it depends on the father.  My father thought a lot of Father's
    Day and while he was alive I made a point of either visiting or
    calling if I couldn't go in person because he would have been hurt
    if one of his kids forgot. 
    
    Similarly, my wife thinks a lot of Mother's day and I make a point
    of remembering it (ie no training or fishing). It really upset her
    this year when our son didn't do anything special for her and she
    let him know it.
    
    So it depends on the recipient of the honour. If your father
    appreciates it don't forget him.
    
    Roger

    re .19  I am kidding about actually trying to move the National Fathers
    Day.  I didn't mean that. I ment that Dad and Son agree on a day which
    they will make special if the Fathers Day date doesn't work for them.
    Then they have their own "Fathers Day" at a better time of their
    choice.
    
    re .20  Boy, that can hurt! I understand what you are going through.
    Do you remember the saying that goes something like: "If you can keep
    a cool head and even temper while other people are blaming their
    troubles on you, then you will be a man my son."  I don't mean that to
    sound condescending.... thats roughly the quote.  I think that if you
    can live your life in an honorable way your kids will eventually
    realize it and you won't lose them.  Kids are smart.  They can see
    through B.S. given time.  Hang in there.  One day they WILL come back
    to you (maybe as adults) but they will be BACK.   Jeff
    

     re: .20 (Tony?)
    
    	I hope things work out for ya. 
    	I think, as the children get older that perhaps it will.
    
    
    							Hank

    Can you combine the day?...I'm spending the day at the beach with
    no responsibility for watching my son - I asked my Dad and Mom to
    join us for dinner and I would pick up the tab!
    JR

    
    Being as this is Friday, the last day I'll be in here until after
    Father's Day, I would like to extend my best wishes to all fathers
    reading this.   Happy Father's Day!  

    	My sincere best wishes and Happy Fathers' Day to all the fathers
    	here, too!

    	My Dad is in Hawaii with my Mom, so I won't get to see him, but
    	I'll be talking to him on Fathers' Day - I always do!

    	My Dad is a Prince - the best father in the whole world, as far
    	as I'm concerned!  My son also thinks he's the best Grandpa in
    	the whole world!

    	These days, Dad is a distinguished retired Irish gentleman,
    	enjoying his Golden Years with my Mom (and they are as loving
    	and romantic as they've ever been in their whole married lives!)

    	They are both great people!

    	Meanwhile, Happy Fathers' Day again to you all!

A happy Father's Day to all you men with children. I hope you get to spend some
time being and feeling special.

    Hey!  It was great to have both of my kids call me *just* to wish me
    a happy Father's Day ... neither one of them asked for money !!
    
    Jerry

    You gotta love a kid who gives his father a super soaker 100 for
    Father's Day. And he cut the grass too. Who says teenagers are a
    pain?
    
    			Alfred

You gotta license for that SuperSoaker? :-)

		Steve

    RE: .31 :-) Actually it's too big to conceal. And I think I'm safe
    as long as I stay north of the border. :-)

    		Alfred

    As the clock was ticking toward midnight and Father's Day was drawing
    to a close ... I had yet to hear from my kids.  What a feeling ...
    let's talk about "down" ... 
    
    I was reading a note that my oldest had written about 3 years ago -
    it was attached to a brown paper bag (grocery bag) that contained her
    Nintendo game (which I always wanted to play).  The note read:
    
    		"Now - as you honorary father's & birthday gift
    		I give you my most valuable possession - my
    		video games.
    
    		You may have them until the end of August - 
    
    		but heed my warning - if they are not returned
    		my people will hunt you down and kill you.
    		Understand?
    
    		I love you.
    		Janice"
    
    Somewhere around 2230 HRS the phone rings !  "Hi Daddy!".  Talk about
    putting a smile on my face!!
    
    I asked her about the message above ... "What would you have done had I
    not returned your games".
    
    "Easy, I would have my people hunt you down and kill you, no quarter,
    pops.  I love you but you can't hold a candle to my video games".
    
    We talked for an hour ... most of the time laughing ... 
    
    God, how I love dem kids ....
    
    Bubba

>    I asked her about the message above ... "What would you have done had I
>    not returned your games".
>    
>    "Easy, I would have my people hunt you down and kill you, no quarter,
>    pops.  I love you but you can't hold a candle to my video games".

    Like father like daughter. :-)

    		Alfred

    This was a particularly poignant Father's day for me. Our oldest
    graduated from college on May 23 and moved to Texas to live on May 27.
    I KNOW we should never have let her cross the street!
    I missed her Father's day call, called back and no answer...
    
    She sent a lovely hand-made card. Magazine cutouts of pictures of Lions
    and Tigers and Bears (oh my) encaptioned ...
    "There are lots of frightening animals out in the world" and inside
    "But _i'm_ not afraid because my daddy will protect me"
    
    
    				herb
    

    I went to a dance recitle for my 4 year old. Eva at the saturday 
    dress rehersal was amazed at the people looking at her. Instead
    of being shy, she stared back at the croud that was looking at
    her as she side stepped across the stage. The she stuck out her
    toung, giggled, and did her routine as the dance school director
    told her to do her dance as the music started to play. I was on the
    floor in both tears and laughter. 
    
    There is allot about how I have gotten custody of my daughter that
    I have held back on. Some afternoon I will tell you. And perhaps
    many of you might have an understanding of my attitude(s) towards
    divorce. At the moment, I have to keep a tight lip.
    
    

    	Got the following hand-written note from my daughter last Sunday:
    
    Dear Dad,
    
    	Happy Father's Day!  I love you very much.  Even though I'll be
    moving away soon and starting a new life, I'll always be  your little
    girl.  You've been there when I was down, when I needed a shoulder to
    cry on, and when I needed advice (sometimes I even used it).  You've
    shared my failures and successes.
    	Thank you for encouraging me to be my own person.  Thank you most
    of all for being my dad!
    
    						Love,
    
    						Heather

    
    
     My son sounded like a herd of elephants stomping his feet as he
    climbed the stairs to my apartment , KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK, OPEN UP DAD
    I GOT A PWESENT FOR YOU'. The door opened and in shot my little boy,
    plop on the couch,quick check to see if his mom had followed him in
    then, " Heres your present Daddy" " Can I watch cartoons now". He got
    me a purple work-out shirt, a matching pair of purple trunks, which
    all went well with my purple mountain bike, and purple poly-propelene
    running jacket.. Yah gotta love em':-)
    
    
    David