Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    Is it possible that she is suffering from postpartum  emotional
    problems? Having two children that close together can put a real
    strain on a woman. 
    
    I'd encourage you to get counceling, either by your self, if she
    won't go, or as a couple.
    
    Bonnie

    Perhaps her family is a big part of the problem. I'm married almost
    15 years, and know what its like to have inlaws that try to maintain
    "control" over their daughter. Whe have moved farther away from
    them twice (the first time 85 miles, the second time 250 miles),
    and we may have FINALLY broken the apron string (with a corresponding
    improvement in our lives. By always letting their daughter "come
    home" whenever problems come up (and problems will come up in ANY
    marriage) rather than encouraging her to work these problems out,
    they continue to feed a vicious circle. You need to work things
    out (or at least try to) with your wife WITHOUT OUTSIDE INTERFERENCE
    FROM RELATIVES! As long as they maintain any CONTROL over her (and
    I'm making an assumption here, so if I'm wrong, pleae correct me),
    you will be fighting an uphill battle.
    
    Eric

IMHO, I believe that in the final analysis you are the only one that can answer
that question. Whether to hold on or let go? You need to prayer, search your
heart and mind and even explore the question with your wife, perhaps waiting
until a more communicative phase of her being.

If after doing all that, you find that you truly love her and wish to remain
with her than, by all means, you should exhaust all possibilities before
calling it quits. Of course, your wife must be willing too, or else it will all
be for naught.


Ken

    
    Which one of you has custody of the children now?...
    
    I agree re: getting counseling.   It's the best thing you can do
    for yourself...
    
    John
    

    it' real hard to offer any substantive advice without a lot more
    information......
    
    some people declare that age doesn't make much difference, but,
    i think it often does...  your wife is apparently in her early
    twenties, has two very young children, and parents that evidently
    support or condone her "running" to them time after time.  
    
    i'd say you wife has a bit of maturing to do....not an easy task
    with the current issues.
    
    you might be able to help by allowing her to have some "space",
    assuming more (i am only guessing) of the parenting roles, and
    encouraging her to talk with YOU instead of her parents.  
    
    i definitely think counselling for you both is in order....it is
    amazing how clear you can see your problems through someone elses
    trained eyes.
    
    tony

    If she keeps running back to her parents whenever there are problems
    then you are losing the battle.  Relatives are nice to have around
    when you are having problems, but if they interfere with your life
    then they are the main cause.  Your wife should work out problems
    with you rather than going back home.  I hope you will work things
    out and mend your marriage.  Best wishes to you and stay away from
    the in-laws
    
    
    

    IMHO and based on my experiences with my current and ex-wives,
    counselling is highly desireably for each of the following reasons:
    
    1.  Yourself where are you and what actions are in your own best
    interest based on your current status.
    
    2.  Your wife if the cycle is to be broken you must be well prepared
    from your experiences gained above to support her efforts if any
    to reform her actions and attitudes.
    
    3.  The children although they are, to borrow the legal term, "of
    tender years" how do you aid in keeping them out of the middle.
    Are you willing to give them up as an act of love to your wife and/or
    her next husband to prevent the almost inevitable power struggle?
    
    4.  Individual counselling for each of you and couple counselling
    is definitely called for to form a solid basis for continuing the
    marriage by mutually working on it.  You CANNOT hold it together
    on your own.
     

    There could be a major problem if your wife had the children and
    they all were in an environment with manipulative grandparents,
    which sounds like what your wife's parents are. As hard as it sounds,
    I would NEVER allow her parents to screw up another generation like
    they may have done to her. It took 14 years of marriage and MANY
    ups and downs, but my wife and I appear to have finally broken her
    parents influences over her and our lives, and are now enjoying
    our lives as a family. It took us 2 job relocations and three houses
    over the years, but we are finally away from them.
    
    Unfortunately, as long as your wife is back home with them, you
    have a major uphill battle to fight. You need to be together as
    a family to make progress, and if the marriage is "save-able", this
    will be the way to do it.
    
    Eric

RE .0

Something that I noticed in the base note is that you said something
to the effect that the last time she left was "for nothing."  I think
that it might be fair to say that it was nothing to you but that it
was definitely something very big to her.  (I'm not saying either of
you is "right" or "wrong"; I think you're both "right.") 

I guess my only point is that communication is so important if you are
hoping to patch things up.  The only advice I am giving to you is that
you should try to empathize with her and try to understand why what
happened was such a big deal that she had to leave you, even though,
to you, it was a little, unimportant reason.  To her, it's big.  And
it's going to stay big until she can feel that you are trying to
understand why it is so important to her and until you are acting in
partnership with her on this issue (instead of her perceiving you as
an adversary).  And you can do that without it _ever_ being big or
important to _you_. The main point is that your _wife_ is important to
you, and empathizing and understanding about what is "big" in her life
is part of the work of making sure that she stays important to you
(and you to her).  And she has the job of empathizing and 
understanding what is "big" in your life, as well.  It goes both ways. 

I hope this was understandable.  Feel free to reject the advice if you 
think I'm way offbase.

In any case, I wish you both well....


						--Gerry

    ...and until you've patched things up nicely, might be a good idea to
    destroy the old credit cards... speaking from experience.
    
    Marge

    I agree that counseling could be valuable, provided *both* of you
    really want to make the relationship work.  If one of you has to
    be persuaded to go (at least the second time), then your chances
    for any kind of success are greatly diminished.
    
    Nobody has yet addressed this issue, so I will.  Leave your friends
    OUT of it.  If they are biased toward one or the other of you, they
    won't be any help.  If (and this would be rare), you have a friend
    who is not biased, I'd be willing to bet one of you will be saying,
    "Wait a minute, I thought you were *my* friend.  Why aren't you
    on *my* side?"  Or at least feeling that way.
                                                        
    Re .9 -- Gerry's right.  She didn't leave over "nothing," or, if
    she did, "something" made her want to go.  By that I mean that you
    need to look for the real reasons, and they're often hard to uncover.
    And be warned -- if you go for counseling, you're going to hear
    a lot of stuff about yourself that you won't like.  You may even
    discover some of it for yourself.
    
    And one last thought.  One of the most important issues you need
    to address is "What's the best thing for *you*?"  Living happily
    with another person often takes lots of compromises, but if you
    start surrendering who or what you are to make things go smoothly,
    you won't be happy, and, ultimately, you won't be able to make anyone
    else happy either.  Believe me, I know whereof I speak.
    
    Good luck.  I hope you get just what you want.
    
    							Gary
                                                            

        re: .0
        
        I started with the counselling when I was in a similar
        situation (a mere 5 weeks ago).  I use th eword was
        because, with professional help, we (my wife and I) have
        come to a conclusion that we should not be together.
        
        I can empathize what you are going through.  I found
        myself in an emotional yo-yo (and still am). 
        
        You need to do a examination of what the "real" problems
        are.  Little things seem to only become substitutes for
        the major problems.  They are easy to focus on and divert
        you form the real problems.

        Counselling can definitly be helpful.  If you decide this
        route, be sure to get a counselor you feel comfortable
        with.  The EAP is a good place to start.
        
        gt
        

    Remeber, as hard as it is to deal with, not every relation ship
    is ever lasting.  Marriages unfortunately come and go with ease
    today.
    
    and I'm not so sure I'd be blaming the inlaws.  you can't blame
    the girls parents for letting her come back.  Afterall, that is
    their daughter and it would take an iceberg to turn your back
    on your own kids.
    
    Take a good look at your relationship, leaving nothing for guess.
    
    Everyone has problems./  I've been married for 12 years, and seen
    my share of bad times and good.  Fortunately we've always been able
    to work it.  But when the going gets tuff, and I think it's over
    'nothing' I usually take a real hard look at what I'm doing or not
    doing (which is usually the case) to attribute to my wifes happiness.
    
    Women are wonderful companions, make them know how much their
    appreciated, they wont run home to mom and dad every time the bathroom
    lights burn out.

    I can really sympathize with you.  I'm sort of in the same situation;
    hold on/let go.  The only thing that makes it a_very little_ eaiser is
    that we're not married, but we bought a house together.  That's the
    hard part of letting go, I don't want to lose the house and I can't
    afford it on my own.  We've been together for about 3 years.  He's 
    been married once before and has a daughter.  He didn't want to get
    married then and now he really hasn't changed his mind about it either.
    There are some things that he does that really bugs me and have thought
    about what if he doesn't stop doing them, can I  LIVE WITH it the rest
    of my life.  NO, I don't think I can.  He hasn't even got a divorce
    from his first marriage; which is one of the things that bugs me.
    
    I have learned a lot; if a person says at one point in their life no
    or probably not, then don't expect them to change. I did and he hasn't.
    The other major problem in our relationship is that he can't have kids
    due to a vasectomy ( he really doesn't want to go through reversing it)
    and I want kids badly.  I have thought about adoption, but for me I
    don't think I would be totally satisfied.  He is a great guy and if
    things could be a little different between us, this would be a GREAT
    relationship.  He's satisfied with what he has and really doesn't want
    to lose me but I want to be satisfied and I'm not.  Because of how he
    feels, it gives me a guilt trip feeling, but I guess I deserve it.
    
    Just wanted to let you know that I can understand how you feel.

    I wanted to add to that there is 7 years between us, I'm younger.  In a
    way I feel this has something to do with the whole thing.   I feel that
    he's sort of set in his ways and in a way has already been through his
    life; married, divorce, a kid.  I haven't been through any of this and
    I feel he has a bad opinion about it all.  Another problem about us is
    that he doesn't know how or want to communicate with me so I can never
    understand fully how he feels.